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Wonder Woman headed to the small screen

Who said anything about Emmys? We were talking about what's effective at attracting an audience. That's got nothing to do with quality, as evidenced by the failure of so many critically acclaimed shows and the success of so many critically reviled shows. The topic is simply whether a show based on a comic book needs to be faithful to the comic book (or a particular incarnation thereof) in order to be successful at attracting and holding an audience. That's a totally different conversation from whether it's award-worthy.
 
Let's be honest here. Nobody under the age of fifty has even seen the old Lynda Carter tv show...

HEY! I'm forty and I worshipped the show. 'Course I was 8 at the time.

But I think your point is well made - It's only us middle-agers who have any perception of the Lynda Carter version of WW at all. A much, MUCH smaller group has a perception of WW from the JL cartoon, and an even smaller group has a perception of her from the comics.
I'm 34 and I've been familiar with Wonder Woman my whole life, mainly through comic books, the Super Friends cartoon and snippets of the Lynda Carter series. Carter has always been the quintessential Wonder Woman in my mind by the way, and in 2005, I bought the Carter series on DVD and was finally able to watch the whole thing. I always assumed that Wonder Woman was a bigger part of pop culture than what you two (and others) are suggesting.
 
Interesting. I'm fifty-plus and I don't think I've sat through an episode in decades--and I've written four novels featuring Wonder Woman!

The old show was some thirty years ago. I would have thought it was only a fuzzy nostalgic memory for most people . . . .
 
Interesting. I'm fifty-plus and I don't think I've sat through an episode in decades--and I've written four novels featuring Wonder Woman!

The old show was some thirty years ago. I would have thought it was only a fuzzy nostalgic memory for most people . . . .

But every now you're out clubbing, tripping on E and some DJ Gangster starts playing yet another techno remix of the 70s theme song.

Shit like that is scarring.

Besides i will never forgive Smallville for wasting Lynda Carter as Chloe's mommy in a throw away story when they could have done a glancing blow on the Wonder Woman mythos.
 
Interesting. I'm fifty-plus and I don't think I've sat through an episode in decades--and I've written four novels featuring Wonder Woman!

The old show was some thirty years ago. I would have thought it was only a fuzzy nostalgic memory for most people . . . .

But every now you're out clubbing, tripping on E and some DJ Gangster starts playing yet another techno remix of the 70s theme song.

Shit like that is scarring.

.


"In her satin tights, fighting for her rights . . . . "
 
'm 34 and I've been familiar with Wonder Woman my whole life, mainly through comic books, the Super Friends cartoon and snippets of the Lynda Carter series. Carter has always been the quintessential Wonder Woman in my mind by the way, and in 2005, I bought the Carter series on DVD and was finally able to watch the whole thing. I always assumed that Wonder Woman was a bigger part of pop culture than what you two (and others) are suggesting.

I think for a 34 year old you have a far greater perception and appreciation of 70s entertaiment than most of your peers. I mean, I watched Superfriends first run and was deeply aware, at the age of 7, that it was crappily written.

Wonder Woman has a certain pop culture presence as the "female Superman", but it largely consists of the general public recognizing her image as campy nostalgia. When we start getting into details like secret identity and what she should wear I think the number of people who have a definite opinion on the situation is pretty small. Look at this thread - maybe 6 people are involved in this conversation? Compare that to how many have chimed in over in the Zach Snyder will direct the next Superman movie thread. Superhero comics is an area still greatly dominated by 15-30 year old guys who are far more interested in macho badassery like Wolverine than they are in an Amazon, no matter how much cleavage she's showing.
 
Superfriends may have been crappy but the toys were AMAZING!!!

You squeezed their legs together and it made batman punch people or hawkmans wings flap... No wait, I'm thinking of the Super Powers Collection which came much much later.

I caught some reruns of the Superfriends a few years back and I said to myself the Atom can't fly and the the Atom can't fly in space... The writers must have thought it a little too "gay" (which was bad back then apparently) for the Atom to hide in Superman's briefs during interstellar flight.

Though I loved it how the Superfriends the cartoon company made up were all used as evil clones in an ongoing plot in Justice League Unlimited.

Though the Wonder Twins were in Smallville. :)
 
I think that if you are hoping to hold on to long time fans that have stuck with the series throughout it's entire run and are expecting some kind of payoff and you're using source material as the basis for telling your stories (even if you are doing your own twist on those stories) and it hasn't come yet then you will inevitably have drop off. To a degree "Smallville" has attained it's audience but again I see posters on the board who pop in and friends online on facebook who mention that they haven't seen "Smallville" in years because they lost interest. I was very close to dropping the series altogether after last season. The fact is that a lot of fans have become disgruntled with their rigid embracement of "No Flight, No Tights" even in the final season. This is no longer about Clark Kent's 'formulative years" he's not even in Smallville any more. I think they're milking of stories and refusal to have Clark fly for whatever reason has cost them a bulk of fans. They've been faithful to a degree but it is time for some pay off and finally we're getting it...
 
Interesting. I'm fifty-plus and I don't think I've sat through an episode in decades--and I've written four novels featuring Wonder Woman!

The old show was some thirty years ago. I would have thought it was only a fuzzy nostalgic memory for most people . . . .

Well at near 40 I grew up with it as well. Has it ever really aired in reruns? I know Batman has as well as Incredible Hulk but I can't really recall seeing Wonder Woman in later years for some reason.
 
Well at near 40 I grew up with it as well. Has it ever really aired in reruns? I know Batman has as well as Incredible Hulk but I can't really recall seeing Wonder Woman in later years for some reason.

I can't speak for the US, but it's shown up on specialty cable channels here in Canada a number of times in recent years. Plus don't forget there was the splashy DVD release a few years ago - it's still widely available in that format.

That comment about "no one under the age of 50 remembers it" isn't really accurate. I'm 41 and not only do I vividly remember Carter's Wonder Woman, but I also watched the very first episodes of The Six Million Dollar Man in 1973-74 and grew up on that show (insert gratuitous plug for the DVD set here). I even remember vividly watching The Starlost and the original Planet of the Apes series when they first ran.

If the show hadn't been rerun (and we may have forgotten the specifics, but I'm 99% certain WW did get the syndicated treatment) or released to DVD, then yeah I'd agree no one might care. But Lynda Carter achieved icon status, as did Erin Grey as Wilma Deering, Lindsay Wagner as Jaime Sommers. And that transcends time. There are icons that may only be remembered by a niche -- for example, Patrick McGoohan as John Drake; if they were to remake Danger Man and change it into something completely different people like me would bitch about it, but most people wouldn't know to care. When it comes to something like Wonder Woman on TV, though, there's almost a "racial memory" thing going on where people might know Carter as WW even if they never saw the show (this applies to Star Trek TOS as well, and to Doctor Who if you're in the UK). And with DVD, Hulu, downloads, etc. there's a hell of a lot more under-50s who know the show these days than you might think.

Alex
 
My feeling, based on nothing but anecdote and my own exposure to the show, is that people know the theme tune to the 70s show, know the costume, know how hot Lynda looked in it and remember details like the lasso and golden wristbands. I don't know that too many people on this side of the pond could remember individual episodes of it or supporting characters, the way they could with Star Trek or Doctor Who. Over here, I don't think it's been repeated to the extent that other shows have.

I think it's stretching it a wee bit to describe Erin Gray's Wilma Deering as 'iconic' (though that show has been repeated over here) but she also looked damn hot in her costume!
 
Would anybody be willing to photoshop a Wonder Woman costume onto my sister? She's model/actress in California. PM me if so.

:-)

is she hot?
She is and she's got a "Wonder Woman" look. Hopefully tharp will come back and post a link to her pics. I'm not sure I should.

I don't quite think she'll like one of her publicity photos posted everywhere, but a photoshopped one, I think would slide. ;-)


Appearently, I understand, she's talking to some big "name" agencies in the passed week -- might get on with one. Maybe get some bigger stuff.

No PMs thus far. :)
 
Superfriends may have been crappy but the toys were AMAZING!!!

You squeezed their legs together and it made batman punch people or hawkmans wings flap... No wait, I'm thinking of the Super Powers Collection which came much much later.

I caught some reruns of the Superfriends a few years back and I said to myself the Atom can't fly and the the Atom can't fly in space... The writers must have thought it a little too "gay" (which was bad back then apparently) for the Atom to hide in Superman's briefs during interstellar flight.

By the age of 9 the thing that bugged me about it was this:

Superman sees a giant robot about to stomp on a bunch of innocent people. He pauses in midflight to say out loud, "That giant robot is about to stomp on those innocent people! I will use my heat vision to melt his internal processor."

And I'm thinking - why are you stopping to say that? I know what your heat vision is! His foot's coming down! Just freaking stop him already!

I mean everything single thing they did, they announced first. It was really, really annoying.

I think that if you are hoping to hold on to long time fans that have stuck with the series throughout it's entire run and are expecting some kind of payoff and you're using source material as the basis for telling your stories (even if you are doing your own twist on those stories) and it hasn't come yet then you will inevitably have drop off. To a degree "Smallville" has attained it's audience but again I see posters on the board who pop in and friends online on facebook who mention that they haven't seen "Smallville" in years because they lost interest. I was very close to dropping the series altogether after last season. The fact is that a lot of fans have become disgruntled with their rigid embracement of "No Flight, No Tights" even in the final season. This is no longer about Clark Kent's 'formulative years" he's not even in Smallville any more. I think they're milking of stories and refusal to have Clark fly for whatever reason has cost them a bulk of fans. They've been faithful to a degree but it is time for some pay off and finally we're getting it...

I quit on Smallville after season 3 or thereabouts - and it had absolutely nothing to do with "no flights, no tights". I think the basic premise of the show is rather innovative: a young, sexy Superman surrounded by young, sexy women all in a very contemporary setting that ditches some of the more awkward comic book conventions like colorful spandex costumes. It quickly became apparent that Smallville was not actually the tale of Superman's formative years, but an original Superman show complete with his entire rogue's gallery, Lois, Jimmy and Perry White, mining the entire Superman mythos freely.

Sadly, the writing on the show was mind-numbingly repetitive and wildly unoriginal with a little too much emphasis on the young, sexy people and their faux romantic angst (if it'd been decently written romantic angst, I'd probably have stuck with it). I'm pretty sure most of the people who ditched Smallville did so for reasons similar to mine - not because of the lack of the blue tights.
 
I remember the early Smallville drinking game. You had to take a drink any time anyone got knocked unconscious or said "secret". You generally ended up ragingly drunk after every episode.
 
But there might be millions of other fans who loved a show like that and didn't give a damn whether it was faithful to some prior work of fiction. (Indeed, some would say what you describe is a lot like the 2009 ST movie, and that was the most successful Trek movie ever made.)

That was a revitalization that was needed (the Trek franchise was dying to begin with)-Superman wasn't like that, and neither is Wonder Woman. People (including many feminists) expect Wonder Woman to be heroic, powerful, and amazing, and they expect that when she's wearing the suit. NOT when she isn't.

And really, I doubt it would be "millions" of fans who were angry about it.

You'd be surprised how many people there are who want Wonder Woman to be like she is normally, and who are tired of the same thing from Smallville. Those fans should not be underestimated at all.


The most dedicated fans, maybe tens of thousands of people, would be upset, but most of the audience of millions who watch ST shows or movies are far more casual about it and don't care about how "pure" it is. The thing that purists never understand is that most people are not purists. It's not holy gospel to them, it's just an entertaining way to pass the time.

Then let's see how they respond when and if their favorite shows are changed and made different, then.

Like it or not, Smallville works.

Only for the mundanes who watch it; those of us that really love and appreciate the Superman franchise think that it's shit.

It's in its tenth season. How many shows have lasted ten seasons on a single network?

Ten seasons of crap is still ten seasons of crap. You've used the same yardstick when judging Voyager and Enterprise, why can't I?



It's been an astonishingly successful show -- far more successful than other, more "authentic" adaptations of Superman.

Only time will tell how much; I think that if something comes along that's more true to the spirit of Superman, Smallville will be left in the dust.


If the film failed critically, it's because it was boring and unimaginative. It was more of an extended homage to a pair of movies made over two decades earlier than an innovative film in its own right, and it was overlong and understated.

You mean it wasn't an angst-driven POS movie where Superman/Clark/Kal whines his ass off about his powers, but a movie where Superman does what he does like he's supposed to. That's what critics and film-goers responded to, my own darn self included.


On the issue of Wonder Woman's costume, I think the show would do well to emulate the '70s series' practice (and the comics' practice, at times) of giving her multiple costumes for different occasions. For one thing, it would be good for the toymakers.

That might work-notice, I said might.

Wait a minute here, let's be serious for a minute, "Smallville" may "work" as a series but it has been well known that for the past several seasons that they've been sitting on their seat of their pants in May waiting for the news to be renewed. The fact that they've had to wait on occasion for the last hour for that news says volumes about CW not having a replacement show in place that they liked or thought would do well. "Smallville" does average ratings at best but is one of THEIR strongest rated shows and this is why it has been renewed.

Now again I must reiterate that I'm a big "Smallville" fan but let's not pretend that it's Emmy worthy here folks. It has tremendous amount of flaws that we point out every week in the threads, and if one went in there and read through the majority of responses in those threads one would recognize and acknowledge that fact. The argument that this show is the freaking bees knees of superhero shows is flawed at best and one would know that if one were truly being critical about it. I bitch because I care and demand quality and entertainment and there is no denying that "Smallville" has accomplished this to some degree but let's not pretend that it's won multiple Emmy's or something. I'm done.

Chief among them a total disregard for the source material (not even Lois & Clark was like that), a 'hero' who was nothing like the word, and a constant drumbeat of emo angst bullshit from the main character. This is Superman? This is Kal-El, the last son of Krypton? Sorry, but no, it isn't; it's a post-modern version who mopes about his powers-kind of like Matthew Star on The Powers Of Matthew Star-and look how that show turned out; did anybody really watch it or like it? No. Today, however, people will watch a whiny young man with powers who's supposed to be the greatest hero someday heap around Smallville in a funk. This is progress?

I don't think anyone's been saying the show deserves Emmys or is the most high-quality superhero show ever, or even that it's a ratings success on the order of, say, AMERICAN IDOL. Hell, I haven't been talking about the show's artistic merits at all, just whether, on a pragmatic level, it found a large enough audience to survive. And ten seasons, even of moderate ratings, is nothing to sneeze at. That's longer than any previous superhero show, every Star Trek series, Buffy, Lost, or even the old Lynda Carter version. Any new WONDER WOMAN series would lucky to run even half as long as SMALLVILLE has . . .

If it does the same thing with Wonder Woman that it did with Superman, then it deserves to die quickly-and I predict that it will if it does what you want it to. As for longevity-see my post above and read it again.

What I keep being puzzled by is this insistence that somehow the general public would rise up in revolt, and abandon the show in droves, if this same approach was applied to WONDER WOMAN--despite SMALLVILLE's proven track record.

Fans grumbled about SMALLVILLE from Day One. Didn't make a bit of difference.

Eventually those fans stopped watching the show, like I did (I NEVER started-the only episode I watched was the one with Chris Reeve as Dr. Swan, and that was only because it was announced on Entertainment Tonight; were it not for that, I might not have bothered.)


I think that if you are hoping to hold on to long time fans that have stuck with the series throughout it's entire run and are expecting some kind of payoff and you're using source material as the basis for telling your stories (even if you are doing your own twist on those stories) and it hasn't come yet then you will inevitably have drop off. To a degree "Smallville" has attained it's audience but again I see posters on the board who pop in and friends online on Facebook who mention that they haven't seen "Smallville" in years because they lost interest. I was very close to dropping the series altogether after last season. The fact is that a lot of fans have become disgruntled with their rigid embracement of "No Flight, No Tights" even in the final season. This is no longer about Clark Kent's 'formulative years" he's not even in Smallville any more. I think their milking of stories and refusal to have Clark fly for whatever reason has cost them a bulk of fans. They've been faithful to a degree but it is time for some pay off and finally we're getting it...

Correctamundo and exatamundo! And as I said, if this is done with Wonder Woman, the same thing will probably happen, only worse.
 
Only for the mundanes who watch it; those of us that really love and appreciate the Superman franchise think that it's shit..


So "mundanes" don't matter? You call them mundanes. I call my friends, family, co-workers, etc. You know, real people. Fans are not the only viewers who matter.

Again, SUPERMAN does not just belong to "true" fans who think that they're the only ones who appreciate him. He belongs to everyone who grew up watching the old George Reeves show, or the Christopher Reeve movies, or the Saturday morning cartoons, or LOIS & CLARK, or dressed up as Superman for Halloween. He belongs to everyone, not just purists.

There's nothing wrong with a SUPERMAN show that appeals to "mundanes." Siegal and Schuster never intended SUPERMAN to be the exclusive property of a small clique of trufans. He's a mass-market phenomenon, intended for the general public.

Ditto for Wonder Woman.
 
But there might be millions of other fans who loved a show like that and didn't give a damn whether it was faithful to some prior work of fiction. (Indeed, some would say what you describe is a lot like the 2009 ST movie, and that was the most successful Trek movie ever made.)

That was a revitalization that was needed (the Trek franchise was dying to begin with)-Superman wasn't like that, and neither is Wonder Woman. People (including many feminists) expect Wonder Woman to be heroic, powerful, and amazing, and they expect that when she's wearing the suit. NOT when she isn't.

I marched for the ERA when I was 8 years old. That was the same year I read my first Wonder Woman book, and it was the one with the introduction by Gloria Steinem. I've been part of first wave, second wave and third wave feminism. I could give a shit about whether or not the iconic Amazon warrior wears star spangled panties and a low cut bustier - in fact, I'd rather she didn't.

So speak for yourself, and don't make assumptions about where feminists fall out on this debate.

Character matters. Clothes don't.
 
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