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Spoilers Wonder Woman - Grading & Discussion

Give it a grade.


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    176
You're selling this film way too short.

No, I gave it an A rating in this thread and praised it, but some are treating it as if was Star Wars in 1977. Few comic adaptations ever walk on that particular street in terms of importance to film. Despite my own judgement of what were the greatest superhero films (some are just great films), I doubt any reached that level.

Yes, Wonder Woman was given a good introduction in BvS, but if her standalone movie had sucked it wouldn't have cleared $100 million domestic.

The use and introduction of the character in Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice cannot be underestimated; it was the big hook to sell the character, so the success of WW did not happen in a vacuum. It--like the MCU films--are part of a series, so its simply logical to acknowledge WW's appeal was generated by her perfect handling in Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice.

Even the worldwide gross is spectacular when you consider that she isn't nearly as well-known overseas.

Wonder Woman is well known overseas, with the comic and a wealth of merchandising distributed in numerous countries for decades. As just one example, in 1979, the Japanese version of the now-defunct publication Starlog, featured a certain character prominently on the cover--

xAx4uPn.jpg


--and this kind of character exposure was not limited to Japan. So, Wonder Woman is not some new, underexposed or mystery character. From personal travels over the years, I've seen all manner of WW products, and the foreign language distribution of the Carter series as well as The Super Friends (with WW being one of the main characters).
 
Wonder Woman is well known overseas, with the comic and a wealth of merchandising distributed in numerous countries for decades.

I live overseas, sweetheart.
Comic book nerds here know her, but it's not even remotely comparable to pop culture icons like Superman or Batman.

I was never into comic books but I don't remember not knowing Superman. Whereas Wonder Woman I hadn't even heard of until relatively recently. You can find Wonder Woman comics here but that doesn't mean she's an icon.
 
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I live overseas, sweetheart.

Which does not counter what I've experienced in several countries, or the fact Wonder Woman is not some new, underexposed or mystery character, otherwise she would not grace foreign magazine covers nearly 40 years ago (generations before the widespread rise of basic cable and later, the internet), or see TV series distributed around the world. That's not just for comic fans, as they--alone--were not making series successful.

I was never into comic books but I don't remember not knowing Superman. Whereas Wonder Woman I hadn't even heard of until relatively recently.

Perhaps that's just your experience, since its clear WW's comics were distributed in other countries since the 1940s (old issues are routinely found throughout Central America, for one location), followed by all mentioned in the previous post.
 
I'm just here to let an American explain to me what Europe is like. :)

Is there a term like "mansplaining" for that?

If you want to believe that Wonder Woman is even remotely as much of an icon as Superman is here, knock yourself out. ;)
 
Keep thinking no one outside of the U.S. has ever heard of Wonder Woman, or that it was a widely distributed character over the decades. Meanwhile...

CRff6ic.jpg


...from 1964/65. Yep, no one outside of North America was aware of the character in print, or ever laid eyes on her various TV adaptations. This new film must be a shock to anyone outside of North America, as the source was nowhere, and I mean nowhere to be seen!
 
Keep thinking no one outside of the U.S. has ever heard of Wonder Woman

How did not widely known become no one?

WW was known, of course

Superman/Batman were more known.
 
Hopefully, you are right about Japan's fascination with female heroes, but IIRC the Forbes article I mentioned earlier claimed "The Hunger Games" did not do that well in Japan. :shrug:

Speaking of women doing well, after Wednesday's receipts were totaled, WW has made $400,488,000 at the domestic box office and her world wide gross is just 5 million shy of $800,000,000. :bolian:

You GO girl! :beer:
 
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I live overseas, sweetheart.
Comic book nerds here know her, but it's not even remotely comparable to pop culture icons like Superman or Batman.

I was never into comic books but I don't remember not knowing Superman. Whereas Wonder Woman I hadn't even heard of until relatively recently. You can find Wonder Woman comics here but that doesn't mean she's an icon.

Yeah, I think I'd rate the average person's awareness of Wonder Woman about on par with that of Captain America before Marvel turned him into a successful movie franchise character.
It's the kind of character one has probably heard of and seen on t-shirts and keyrings and other various crap, but have very little real knowledge of beyond the image and a vague impression of cheesy camp.
Either way, nowhere near the likes of Superman, Spider-Man or Batman.

I'm just here to let an American explain to me what Europe is like. :)

Is there a term like "mansplaining" for that?

I like to call it 'Muricasplain'. Ran into it a few years back when a yank tried to lecture me on how I was wrong about Peggy Carter's accent and how it pertains to the British class system. It was quite adorable really.

Hopefully, you are right about Japan's fascination with female heroes, but IIRC the Forbes article I mentioned earlier claimed "The Hunger Games" did not do that well in Japan. :shrug:

Pure speculation on my part but at least some of that may be down to the perception that it was an American ripoff of 'Battle Royale'. I know from experience that US versions of UK tv shows never do very well over here, so it feels like it might be plausible.
 
Keep thinking no one outside of the U.S. has ever heard of Wonder Woman, or that it was a widely distributed character over the decades. Meanwhile...

CRff6ic.jpg


...from 1964/65. Yep, no one outside of North America was aware of the character in print, or ever laid eyes on her various TV adaptations. This new film must be a shock to anyone outside of North America, as the source was nowhere, and I mean nowhere to be seen!

What are you even talking about?
I never claimed there are no WW comics published in Europe. I even specifically said they exist. So spare me this kind of stupid straw man. Your posts are getting really bizarre here.

My point is that she wasn't very well-known compared to true worldwide pop culture icons like Superman or Batman. :rolleyes:

So from that point of view the movie's international gross is pretty spectacular.

How did you miss this:
You can find Wonder Woman comics here but that doesn't mean she's an icon.

I'm sure you can also find Captain Marvel comics here and I can assure you most people have no fucking clue who that is.
 
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I'm sure you can also find Captain Marvel comics here and I can assure you most people have no fucking clue who that is.

True--I had never heard of her. In fact there are several folks being introduced in DC and Marvel universes that I have never heard of.
 
Keep thinking no one outside of the U.S. has ever heard of Wonder Woman, or that it was a widely distributed character over the decades. Meanwhile...

CRff6ic.jpg


...from 1964/65. Yep, no one outside of North America was aware of the character in print, or ever laid eyes on her various TV adaptations. This new film must be a shock to anyone outside of North America, as the source was nowhere, and I mean nowhere to be seen!
For goodness sakes dude. She's not saying that there hasn't been exposure of wonder woman overseas. She's just saying that the wonder woman brand is not in the same ballpark as Superman which is similiar to here in the states. Yes there was that Linda Carter series way back in the late seventies. But what else has there really been since then outside of comics and cartoons which are niche markets? Most people raised between 1980 and 2017 are not going to have any idea who Wonder Woman is and only went to the movie because the trailers intrigued them or word of mouth. They certainly didn't go because D.C has been hitting their movies out of the park

Getting back to the "she was in BvS therefore the box office return for her movie is no big deal", you know, that movie which was universally panned by everyone...

Do you really think that if the movie sucked that it would be doing the same box office? That's essentially what you are trying to say and its just bogus.
 
What are you even talking about?
I never claimed there are no WW comics published in Europe. I even specifically said they exist. So spare me this kind of stupid straw man. Your posts are getting really bizarre here.

My point is that she wasn't very well-known compared to true worldwide pop culture icons like Superman or Batman. :rolleyes:

The original post mentioned "over seas" then showed a Japanese magazine as the example.

It's not just Europe (or your specific locale within) and America out there. Eurosplaining is just as bad, this is a big world.

But that's neither here nor there. A good, fun movie will do well, whether a character is popular or known or not. Otherwise, Guardians of the Galaxy would have bombed and Superman v Batman would be the biggest movie ever!
 
The original post mentioned "over seas" then showed a Japanese magazine as the example.

It's not just Europe (or your specific locale within) and America out there. Eurosplaining is just as bad, this is a big world.

But that's neither here nor there. A good, fun movie will do well, whether a character is popular or known or not. Otherwise, Guardians of the Galaxy would have bombed and Superman v Batman would be the biggest movie ever!
Indeed. (You beat me to this response M'Rak!) . The poster also mentioned Central AMerica.

"the World" is a lot bigger than Europe & the United States!


Back on topic... i hope Japan DOES come through in a big way...i did NOT see any results for Israel -- did it open there yet? I would imagine it might do fairly well there .. not for the recognition of WOnder WOman necessarily , but for Gal Gadot being now an Israeli success story in Hollywood.
 
Indeed. (You beat me to this response M'Rak!) . The poster also mentioned Central AMerica.

"the World" is a lot bigger than Europe & the United States!


Back on topic... i hope Japan DOES come through in a big way...i did NOT see any results for Israel -- did it open there yet? I would imagine it might do fairly well there .. not for the recognition of WOnder WOman necessarily , but for Gal Gadot being now an Israeli success story in Hollywood.
As far as I know Gal Gadot is being heralded as a national hero in Israel. The movie itself is a big success there, too. No doubt due to one of their own being its main star.
 
The original post mentioned "over seas" then showed a Japanese magazine as the example.

I've been a Wonder Woman fan since I was a lil' babe and as far as I can remember she was never widely known or popular in Europe. I definitely would have noticed if she was.

That said, you can probably find a bunch of 40-year-old European magazine covers with Lynda Carter on them and a list of countries where the comic was published and when, but that doesn't mean she ever was or has remained a cultural icon over the years as she has been in the US.

The European people here haven't presumed anything about the rest of the world as far as I can see, they've just pointed out that what's used as "evidence" of her alleged worldwide popularity is absolutely true in Europe, yet still she wasn't popular here.

That's only "eurosplaining" insofar it's explaining to you what it's like in Europe. :p
 
For goodness sakes dude. She's not saying that there hasn't been exposure of wonder woman overseas. She's just saying that the wonder woman brand is not in the same ballpark as Superman which is similiar to here in the states. Yes there was that Linda Carter series way back in the late seventies. But what else has there really been since then outside of comics and cartoons which are niche markets?

That's the point--in addition to the endless products, live action and animated TV series were widely distributed across the world. This was no "nerd" sub-genre (a term which the entertainment business did not coin, use o, but standard entertainment for the masses. An objective view of how the character was exposed around the world brushes aside this idea that WW was some unknown or near-unknown character outside of North America. If she did not think the character was as popular as others, that is her opinion, but its rather silly to argue that to support the idea that the success of the 2017 WW film had no connection to audience recognition of the character (not to mention her related breakout in BvS). Some seem to be quite easily offended that it was not some big splash out of thin air.

Most people raised between 1980 and 2017 are not going to have any idea who Wonder Woman is

What?? Come on, I have relatives and employees born in the 80s who are not comic book fans, but know who Wonder Woman is, if the topic of characters was brought up. This is not Watchmen characters, but a long lived, long-marketed character with a near-consistent media presence (i.e. live action, animation, commercials, etc.) of some kind in nearly every decade since the 1970s. From the 12 year run (and decades of syndication) of the Super-Friends, the Carter series (and its own, long syndicated life), to several WB animated programs of the 2000s, the character made a cultural awareness stamp beyond its comic roots and fanbase.

Getting back to the "she was in BvS therefore the box office return for her movie is no big deal", you know, that movie which was universally panned by everyone...

You mean the highest grossing DCEU film overall with the biggest opening of the DCEU?

Do you really think that if the movie sucked that it would be doing the same box office? That's essentially what you are trying to say and its just bogus.

Nonsense. I'm saying the character (who had built in audience recognition) made a splash on Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice (arguably scene stealing)--that captured the attention of audiences, which made them long to see a solo WW film. This is not difficult to understand. Its no different than the Spider-Man cameo in Captain America: Civil War--from the moment he was seen in trailers (and the wild fan reaction to that was an indicator of things to come), to the actual release, many were primed to see a solo Spider-Man/MCU film. That's the point--nothing happens in an isolated vacuum where entertainment franchises are concerned.
 
The original post mentioned "over seas" then showed a Japanese magazine as the example.

It's not just Europe (or your specific locale within) and America out there. Eurosplaining is just as bad, this is a big world.

Well said. Heart of the matter.

Indeed. (You beat me to this response M'Rak!) . The poster also mentioned Central AMerica.

"the World" is a lot bigger than Europe & the United States!

Agreed, but some seem to focus on one area, instead of the world, when the evidence exists to support the character's presence on the global stage.


Back on topic... i hope Japan DOES come through in a big way...i did NOT see any results for Israel -- did it open there yet? I would imagine it might do fairly well there .. not for the recognition of WOnder WOman necessarily , but for Gal Gadot being now an Israeli success story in Hollywood.

It would be hard to imagine Gal Godot and the film not being a solid hit there.[/QUOTE]
 
No, I gave it an A rating in this thread and praised it, but some are treating it as if was Star Wars in 1977. Few comic adaptations ever walk on that particular street in terms of importance to film. Despite my own judgement of what were the greatest superhero films (some are just great films), I doubt any reached that level.



The use and introduction of the character in Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice cannot be underestimated; it was the big hook to sell the character, so the success of WW did not happen in a vacuum. It--like the MCU films--are part of a series, so its simply logical to acknowledge WW's appeal was generated by her perfect handling in Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice.



Wonder Woman is well known overseas, with the comic and a wealth of merchandising distributed in numerous countries for decades. As just one example, in 1979, the Japanese version of the now-defunct publication Starlog, featured a certain character prominently on the cover--

xAx4uPn.jpg


--and this kind of character exposure was not limited to Japan. So, Wonder Woman is not some new, underexposed or mystery character. From personal travels over the years, I've seen all manner of WW products, and the foreign language distribution of the Carter series as well as The Super Friends (with WW being one of the main characters).

Keep thinking no one outside of the U.S. has ever heard of Wonder Woman, or that it was a widely distributed character over the decades. Meanwhile...

CRff6ic.jpg


...from 1964/65. Yep, no one outside of North America was aware of the character in print, or ever laid eyes on her various TV adaptations. This new film must be a shock to anyone outside of North America, as the source was nowhere, and I mean nowhere to be seen!
You're two examples are 40 and 50+ years ago, that doesn't necessarily mean that she's well known today, or even that the character was that well know to the general public back then. All it means is that a genre magazine promoted the show, and the comics were distributed in other countries. I'm pretty sure there are a lot of movies that have been on the cover of the US Starlog over the last 40 years that people today have no awareness of, and the Guardians of the Galaxy team featured in the movies have been in comics books for almost 20 years and most of the general public had never heard of them before the movie came out.
Funko is going to be releasing a second batch of WW collectibles. We're getting a Dorbz Ride of Wonder Woman on horseback, Wonder Woman with her sword wearing her cloak, Etta with the sword and shield, and Antiope mid-jump with her bow and arrow Pop!s. There is also a Hot Topic excluse Pop! of Diana in her London outfit holding an ice cream cone.
 
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