Woman of the Week #1 - Hillary Clinton

[{ Emilia }]

A short sidenote first:

I know what you’re thinking: Wait, what? Another „Babe of the Week thread“? Was it banned from the TV&Media forum?

The hint is in the name. This thread will not be about “babes”. Again and again plenty of people have voiced their criticism for the objectification of women in the “Babe of the Week”-thread so this is our chance to talk about interesting, inspiring, beautiful, talented, intelligent women of any age or profession without reducing them to a piece of meat “you would or wouldn’t do”.

If you have any suggestions for future “Women of the Week”, please PM them to me. I’m happy to include them.

Discussion and criticism is encouraged. Not everybody will agree with the choices made. I’d like this to be an open but civil discussion. The first woman of the week is a controversial choice on purpose.

One last thing: Yes, this thread is only about women, not about men. We all appreciate the great things men do and have done. Don’t feel excluded. In fact I’m going to suggest Sidious as official first “Honorary Woman of the Week”.

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So here we go: Hillary Rodham Clinton

I suppose I don’t have to provide much of an introduction here. We all know who she is so I will actually just focus on some details from her youth.
What some of you probably don’t know is that she started out as a “Young Republican” back in the early 1960s. Born into a conservative family she campaigned for Barry Goldwater. Her views changed in the wake of the Vietnam War and the Civil Rights Movement prompting her to describe herself as “a mind conservative and a heart liberal”. During her time at Wellesley College she promoted equality and the recruitment of more black students. Her final goodbye to the Republican Party was the Republican National Convention in 1968 where the racist tones disgusted her.

At college she was basically a “star”. She was the first student to deliver the College’s commencement address. She then proceeded to study law at Yale University, while at the same time volunteering to offer free legal help to the poor and apparently her scholarly work on children’s rights is quite interesting.

And then… she met Bill Clinton.

In her own words: “I chose to follow my heart instead of my head". I suppose this is a side of her we don’t see that often but it shows how complex people are.

Everybody expected her to have a bright political future in Washington, instead she went to Arkansas to live and found a family with Bill Clinton.

Most of you will know much of the rest of the story. She was the first First Lady to hold a postgraduate degree and to have her own professional career up to the time of entering the White House. Whether you like her ideas and policies or not… that is certainly a significant novelty.

I think regardless of where you come from politically you can respect what she has achieved, how she stayed true to herself (and actually her husband) through good times and bad times.

She is an independent thinker, an intelligent, successful woman who managed to have her own political and professional life without being sidelined by her successful husband who even became President of the United States. She is seen as an independent person, not just "the ex-president's wife".

Some questions and ideas for a discussion:

- Do you think she would have made a good president? Why? Why not?

- Do you think America was ready to have a black president but not ready to have a female president?

- Do you think she would've made a better president than Obama?

- Criticism! You're a Republican (heck, or a democrat!) who can't stand her policies? Tell us about it!

 

[DimesDan]

Some questions and ideas for a discussion:

- Do you think she would have made a good president? Why? Why not?

Yes I do, not sure why apart from I like Bill and I'm sure he could have advised her if and when she needed it. Plus from what I know of her, she seems a nice, fair woman who can also lay the "smack-down" when needed.

- Do you think America was ready to have a black president but not ready to have a female president?

I suspect it was a 48/52% split and the fact that Obama was a (black) man edged him in front just slightly.

- Do you think she would've made a better president than Obama?

I have no idea, I'm sure she would, like all leaders have her ups and downs, I guess the Tea Party would have to find something else to doubt her legitimacy as POTUS if they couldn't use the long-birth cert card.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

I've always gone back and forth on Hillary Clinton. As a teenager, I didn't really understand why she stuck with Bill through the various accusations (and even clear evidence) of infidelity. As an adult who has been through some tough relationships, though, I have a greater appreciation for the complexity of those situations and her willingness to tough it out and "stand by her man," so to speak.

I disliked her somewhat as a politician because I found she often gave non-answers to questions, trying to give a response couldn't be interpreted one way or the other, and as a result it would have no potential to offend anyone. I felt like she played it safe too often. She also had some socially conservative leanings which I didn't agree with.

That said, she's accomplished a lot in her storied career. When she became a New York Senator, it was obvious to everyone she intended to use that as a stepping stone to the Presidency. Even so, she did a good job as Senator, too. She always took her responsibilities very seriously, no matter what they were.

She ran a tough campaign against Obama, which I think she lost partly because her public persona has been known to leave people cold, and Obama was much more personable. Given that they weren't vastly different candidates, it's easy to see why she lost that one. Still, it was good that the Democrats had two very strong candidates in 2008--it would be nice if the GOP had anyone halfway decent this year, instead of an android that doesn't want to be human, and a stable of people who may be mentally ill.

I've been quite impressed by her record as Secretary of State. As a rule, that position requires someone who can articulate tough positions unambiguously--it's no place for a waffler, and she's taken it on very well. She could've had the VP slot, but she wanted a real job in the administration, one where she could make a difference, and she definitely got that. I know she said she's getting out of politics once her tenure as SecState is over. I'll be curious to see what she does next.

Love her or hate her, it's impossible to deny the impact she's had on both American and global politics. Great choice.

 

[{ Emilia }]

Yes I do, not sure why apart from I like Bill and I'm sure he could have advised her if and when she needed it. Plus from what I know of her, she seems a nice, fair woman who can also lay the "smack-down" when needed.

I suppose you didn't mean the first sentence the way it comes across but: You really think she could've only been a good president because a man advises her?

I mean... come on... That's terrible.

Just imagine I'd said Bill was only a good president because Hillary was there to advise him.

 

[Rhaven]

Brilliant idea, Emilia.

Hillary Clinton may try her hand again at a chance for the Presidency. I hope she does. I think she would have reigned in spending vs giving all those bailouts. I think she would have done a better job than our current PODUS.

 

[DimesDan]

Yes I do, not sure why apart from I like Bill and I'm sure he could have advised her if and when she needed it. Plus from what I know of her, she seems a nice, fair woman who can also lay the "smack-down" when needed.

I suppose you didn't mean the first sentence the way it comes across but: You really think she could've only been a good president because a man advises her?

I mean... come on... That's terrible.

Just imagine I'd said Bill was only a good president because Hillary was there to advise him.

Touche!

I imagine you knew what I meant and it wasn't meant as a slight, but I can imagine that if she as President needed advice on what to do, she could just turn to him in bed (for example) and ask what to do or go about doing something.

I feel that with my trying to explain, I've dug myself half way to China.

 

[iguana_tonante]

I quite like her. She'a no-nonsense politician who still isn't afraid to dream big. I can really appreciate that.

- Do you think she would have made a good president? Why? Why not?

I think she would have been an awesome US President. In fact, I was rooting for her at the start, but then Obama came and blew my mind with his charisma. They are not really different policy-wise. In the end, I think Obama might be a more inspirational leader, but she is the one you want on your side when the chips are down.

- Do you think America was ready to have a black president but not ready to have a female president?

Personally, I expected a female US President before a black one. If she had got the nomination instead of the nomination, was she going to win? Honestly, I don't know. Given her history, Obama had the advantage of having a "clean slate", while people already had ample opportunity to form their own opinion about her, and entrenched opinions are hard to change.

- Do you think she would've made a better president than Obama?

I don't think they would have been so different, except on one issue: while Obama insisted for two years trying to reach a compromise with the Republican (something they were not interested in having, as it resulted apparent in the end), I think Hillary Clinton, being more experienced in Washington politics, would have been more willing to say "screw this, I'm doing it my way". Something that would have been a good thing for the US and the world at large.

I've been quite impressed by her record as Secretary of State. As a rule, that position requires someone who can articulate tough positions unambiguously--it's no place for a waffler, and she's taken it on very well. She could've had the VP slot, but she wanted a real job in the administration, one where she could make a difference, and she definitely got that.

This, too. From a foreigner's perspective, she is a terrific Secretary of State for the US: tough without being aggressive, steadfast without being intransigent. Really an inspired choice.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

I think she would have made a good president, and her election would have been equally as historic for the US as Obama's.

I don't know if she would have been better than Obama, though. She might have argued more clearly and passionately for single-payer healthcare, since that's been something she's been fighting for for two decades. The Clinton's are despised by the opposition almost or as much as Obama has been, so she probably would have come up against many of the same obstacles. Her leadership and voice would have been a strong asset against all the recent legislation negatively targeting women.

I think she's handled her job as Secretary of State extremely well, guiding us through several crises and being a strong advocate for US foreign policy and for assisting people in need of help overseas.

Since she's said she will not continue as Secretary of State if Obama is reelected, I hope she takes the time off (after writing another book and working with her and Bill's philanthropic projects according to Hillary) to reconsider a run for President in 2016. I think she would be the best followup to Obama out of any of the Democrats waiting in the wings that I've seen so far.

 

[{ Emilia }]

Locutus, I agree with pretty much everything you wrote apart from that last bit.

She will be 70 years old in 2017. How likely is it for her to run again then? I think she's just going to retire. She should've won in 2008. Obama would've been a good follow-up.

 

[Mr Silver]

I think McCain would have won, I can't really explain why though. Hillary would have made a great president, particularly so with a former US president (and one who served two terms) at her side.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Locutus, I agree with pretty much everything you wrote apart from that last bit.

She will be 70 years old in 2017. How likely is it for her to run again then? I think she's just going to retire. She should've won in 2008. Obama would've been a good follow-up.

I don't think the age factor matters as much any more, or at least, being 70-78 years old is not what it once was. She seems in much better physical and mental shape than McCain was (not counting his war injuries), and he ran at 70/71. Reagan was 69 when he took office (bad example with the Alzheimer's, I know). Women have longer lifespans, she doesn't have any family history of degenerative disease that I'm aware of, and she seems to be in excellent health and mentally as sharp as ever.

 

[1001001]

My wife and I both voted for Clinton in the 2008 California primary, and would have voted for her in the general election.

I think she would have made a good president.

 

[YellowSubmarine]

I suppose you didn't mean the first sentence the way it comes across but: You really think she could've only been a good president because a man advises her?

That's a pretty unpalatable implication, but I find it strangely amusing. Why I haven't heard anybody say “Hey, I am OK with a woman president, after all, she has to be married to a man who is going to tell her what to do!” Can this suggestion even be legal? If someone ever really wants to claim that, then by all means, please do. Suggesting a federal crime as a way to rule a country sounds like a great way to discredit one's position. And besides, it would be most fun to see a lesbian candidate win afterwards. Oh, and who exactly is going to advice Michelle Bachmann if she was the woman in question?

Now... Back to reality... Her husband is a terrible way to make a judgement about this. Her track record, even if you were living in a cave like me, should tell you more about her than her husband. And I would see him more as a negative than a positive thing, because it would put her in a presidential dynasty. Sure, that doesn't speak about her and her qualities either way, and shouldn't be a part of your decision, but the tendency to elect such shows there's a bias in human society – though I don't know if that's necessarily a bad thing.

 

[iguana_tonante]

She should've won in 2008. Obama would've been a good follow-up.

I agree. That was my hope, but Obama just had to be so fucking awesome and he stole her thunder.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

- Do you think she would have made a good president? Why? Why not?

Yes, I do. She's intelligent, knows the inner workings of Washington, and I firmly believe that she wants to do good for the country.

- Do you think America was ready to have a black president but not ready to have a female president?

I don't think the reason Hillary lost the primary had anything to do with gender or race. I think it had to do with the idea that on some level Hillary's campaign took the nomination for granted and got lazy - I came to that idea while listening to her speak at a campaign rally, because I could almost feel her disconnecting from the voters by playing it just a little too safe and predictable. In broad strokes, her campaign was very cookie-cutter and took few risks if any, but in contrast Obama's had a freshness to it that helped create a wave.

- Do you think she would've made a better president than Obama?

I honestly don't know. These are tough economic times and America was at war. I don't think she would have done badly; it's an easier thing to say that I would probably have liked the results from her Presidency better than from a McCain presidency.

Her path to victory (I mean in terms of the political waters she had to navigate, not necessarily in the electoral college, though possibly there too) would have been different than Obama's, had she run against McCain. For example, I really don't think McCain would have chosen Palin as his running mate. I think Hillary would have won, not only because she had a lot of support because of her gender, but also, if not mainly, because I simply believe that she would have inspired greater confidence.

We still might find out how she handles the Oval Office in 2016.

The scandal during her husband's second term must have been humiliating. I can only imagine. She's made of incredibly strong stuff to never seem to let it faze her at all.

 

[1001001]

Clinton ran into some bizarre circumstances, including the disqualification of both the Florida and Michigan primaries, both of which I think she would have won.

Obama won the Democratic nomination having lost New York, New Jersey, New Hampshire, Ohio, Texas, and California.

I think it was the "perfect storm", with voters being sick of both the Bushes and the Clintons (among other things). Obama played his hand perfectly, to his credit.

 

[sidious618]

I'm not a huge fan of the Clintons, I always thought Bill governed not unlike a Republican in many respects (signing DoMA, deregulating the banks). Hillary seems to be a bit more liberal than him and she was my senator for a while and didn't massively fuck-up so that puts her ahead of, well, most. Some of her behavior during the primary was inappropriate and it seemed to come from believing she was owed the presidency, similar to Romney's attitude now.

All that said, I think she's done a good job in her current position as SoS and I'm sad she won't be staying on.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

She'd have made a fine President. Better than Obama? Not for my money.

 

[1001001]

Some of her behavior during the primary was inappropriate and it seemed to come from believing she was owed the presidency, similar to Romney's attitude now.

I think that's a fair criticism, especially early in the campaign. I don't know if she actually believed that, but at times that's how it came across.

 

[iguana_tonante]

^ Agreed.