Wolf in the Fold
- Thread starter Laura Cynthia Chambers
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Are you sure that Scotty wasn't taken over by the entity, Phase? I mean he had the dagger in his hand and looked very incoherent in the foggy streets! We know he didn't kill Sybo because he sensed the creature around the table and let's not forget that Jaris too was taken over by Redjac later on!
JB
JB
Except Kirk has that awesome line.
Was it Kirk? Of course it was!!!! AAARRGGHHHH!
JB
Oh yeah. One of my favorite Kirk lines ever, actually! "When man moved out into the galaxy, that THING must've moved with him." Great delivery by Shatner. Not quite sure why, but I always got the impression that the actors really enjoyed doing Wolf in the Fold.
Yeah, you're right. It's actually pretty thought-provoking. Hmm. As a couple of posters mentioned upthread, one of the problems with the episode is that its somewhat lighthearted conclusion is at odds with the gruesome deaths of Kara, Lt. Tracy, and Sybo. It doesn't ultimately detract from the episode for me, but honestly, some sort of darker yet still optimistic note would have served better. And part of that light-hearted conclusion is Scotty saying that for a while he didn't know if he was innocent or guilty, but . . . as you point out, he very well (while possessed) might have killed Kara. I don't think he killed Lt. Tracy either way because they make it a point to note that Hengist was unaccounted for during her murder. And the dialogue pretty clearly illustrates that Scotty did not kill Sybo. But the ambiguity surrounding Kara's death (and possibly Lt. Tracy's) really should have mandated a conclusion with McCoy discovering medical evidence, or Spock discovering scientific evidence, of how Redjac functioned, perhaps as an artifact of it occupying the ship's computer. That would have unambiguously cleared Scotty. I mean, if the poor guy suffered from that bulkhead injury - which drives much of the plot - imagine how traumatized he must (should?) have been after this!
I think the script's intent is to show that Redjac killed all three women using Hengist's body, but they didn't really write it up that way. Anyone familiar with James Blish's novelization and how it handles this point? I remember it being really good.
Scotty also had a period of time where he couldn't account for what happened to Kara! And his somewhat spaced out look makes you think this guy has been sort of possessed in the last few minutes or so...! 
JB
JB
When we find out about the true abilities of the beast, all bets are suddenly off. The knife could have been physically held by Hengist, Scotty, even McCoy for the seance killing, with amnesia or feelings of vague dread replacing the personal knowledge of the deed committed. People having memory blanks could be stabbers themselves, or patsies for the crime, or just further victims that the beast wants to see wriggle with fear.
It's pretty clear the writers didn't think through all the implications, but also that they didn't put much effort into establishing exactly who did what; in the end, the beast was behind it all anyway, and basically nobody else was to blame.
But as for the monster originating on Earth, again that seems unlikely simply considering the sheer precedent. The beast arrived on Argelius with a space traveler. Argelius may be an ideal starport, but it doesn't strike me as any more starfaring itself than 19th century Earth. Hengist may have been recognized as a man from outer space, even when the person who hosted the beast's Jack the Ripper tour was mistaken for a man or woman from Earth, but that's just details.
I guess the interesting question either way is the numbers of Redjacs out there. Is every mass murderer one (or the victim of one)? How many Redjacs per planet at any given time? Do they always play it petty, or do they also have political ambitions, igniting global wars for extra terror? Or, at the other end, do they first direct horror movies and then inhabit the projectionist for a snack?
It's not as if killing sprees of the sort described would be a particularly rare or special phenomenon ITRW, or in Trek (DS9 and VOY gave us a modern serial killer each, and TNG had several). Yet something prompted Spock to single out two specific sprees on Earth. What makes those Redjacky? And are the rest "natural", or simply the work of a fellow beast with slightly different tastes?
Timo Saloniemi
It's pretty clear the writers didn't think through all the implications, but also that they didn't put much effort into establishing exactly who did what; in the end, the beast was behind it all anyway, and basically nobody else was to blame.
But as for the monster originating on Earth, again that seems unlikely simply considering the sheer precedent. The beast arrived on Argelius with a space traveler. Argelius may be an ideal starport, but it doesn't strike me as any more starfaring itself than 19th century Earth. Hengist may have been recognized as a man from outer space, even when the person who hosted the beast's Jack the Ripper tour was mistaken for a man or woman from Earth, but that's just details.
I guess the interesting question either way is the numbers of Redjacs out there. Is every mass murderer one (or the victim of one)? How many Redjacs per planet at any given time? Do they always play it petty, or do they also have political ambitions, igniting global wars for extra terror? Or, at the other end, do they first direct horror movies and then inhabit the projectionist for a snack?
It's not as if killing sprees of the sort described would be a particularly rare or special phenomenon ITRW, or in Trek (DS9 and VOY gave us a modern serial killer each, and TNG had several). Yet something prompted Spock to single out two specific sprees on Earth. What makes those Redjacky? And are the rest "natural", or simply the work of a fellow beast with slightly different tastes?
Timo Saloniemi
Thought I would drop by here and pass this along. 
I thought the murders themselves were handled in too light a way, more as "exciting TV" than grisly. The planet's leader is insanely careless about letting the "séance" go on in his own home, with his own wife, without protection. Then when she's killed, he adjusts too fast and easily. Just one of those things, I guess.
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This makes the murders seem anonymous, and interchangeable. It reminds me of cop shows where there's a string of murders but of prostitutes, so we can get excited by the chase after the killer, without having to care particularly about the victims. Because the audience figures hookers have it coming, or something. Helpless, anonymous women getting murdered is a sort of TV trope. Isn't that strange...
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That's as far as I've gotten on that line of thinking.
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This makes the murders seem anonymous, and interchangeable. It reminds me of cop shows where there's a string of murders but of prostitutes, so we can get excited by the chase after the killer, without having to care particularly about the victims. Because the audience figures hookers have it coming, or something. Helpless, anonymous women getting murdered is a sort of TV trope. Isn't that strange...
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That's as far as I've gotten on that line of thinking.
I'm not sure if I'm understanding you properly. Do you mean as an idea to expand the episode out to a two-parter? Because I don't really see what actually seeing the accident would accomplish that Kirk & McCoy's exposition at the beginning of the episode doesn't. Have you ever heard of the script adage that you should start a scene as late as possible and end it as early as possible? The same applies here. "Wold in the Fold" isn't about Scotty getting a head injury, it's about him being accused of the murders on Argelius. The sooner we get to that story, the better, and "Wolf in the Fold" gets into it at the end of the teaser.
Agreed. I think the episode is pretty good as is, and doesn't really need any extra padding. Always leave 'em wanting more.
Well, it looks like Shatner enjoyed himself, at any rate.Thought I would drop by here and pass this along.
Tanya Lemani commented on a pic I had from Wolf in The Fold on FB last weekend and she said it was just like yesterday! Strange because it was more than fifty years back unless she has a Vulcan life span? 
JB
JB
Tanya Lemani commented on a pic I had from Wolf in The Fold on FB last weekend and she said it was just like yesterday! Strange because it was more than fifty years back unless she has a Vulcan life span?
JB
She responded to your FB, good buddy?
She did indeed, Phase! I sent her a request a few years back and she accepted it a couple of years later! 
I kid you not I'd forgotten that I'd ever sent her one!
JB
I kid you not I'd forgotten that I'd ever sent her one!JB
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@JonnyQuest037 perhaps they could have had Scott get into a heated argument with the girl who cause the accident because he happens to run into her planetside. Redjac killing her would increase the suspicion on Scotty, maybe make it seem as though she was the real target and the others were to muddy the waters...
That's what the makers wanted us to think, that it mustn't be Scotty even if he's acting as a puppet. But the situation they set up just isn't reasonable. Incorporeal beings don't have the requisite anatomy to hold a knife and stab people.
Edit: I jumped the gun and wrote this reply before reading the second half of the thread.
And which had previously been adapted on "Thriller" in 1961, a few years before Bloch wrote "Wolf in the Fold." King is a fan of "Thriller," which he writes about his non-fiction book, Danse Macabre. And King is certainly familiar with Bloch, who was a famous horror writer, best known for being the author of Psycho.
(Although I'm sure King must have watched TOS growing up like the rest of us did.)
And, yeah, I always took for granted that the Ripper was an evil creature from Earth's past because (1) Kirk said so, and (2) that's not an uncommon trope in science fiction and horror, as is (3) the idea that the Ripper is some sort of undying entity. (Heck, even THE NIGHT STALKER did that plot eventually.)
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Really good stuff, Greg. Yeah, I'm not a Stephen King expert but I thought he did state somewhere that he was a TOS fan growing up. He would have been in college (in Maine I think) when it first aired. Anyone know more?
I did a Google search for images of the cover of Bloch's 'The Night of The Ripper' (which is an interesting take that I enjoyed quite a lot) and this is what returned:
Wow. Some those old covers take me back. Especially the Tor editions.
Bloch got a lot of mileage out of famous killers. Besides returning to the Ripper again and again, he also wrote a fun story about Lizzie Borden. And, of course, Norman Bates was loosely based on the real-life Ed Gein.
"Wolf in the Fold" is basically him reworking "Yours Truly" for STAR TREK.
Never met Bloch in person, but I have a nice letter from him in my files somewhere, when he graciously gave me a quote on a book I was editing.
Bloch got a lot of mileage out of famous killers. Besides returning to the Ripper again and again, he also wrote a fun story about Lizzie Borden. And, of course, Norman Bates was loosely based on the real-life Ed Gein.
"Wolf in the Fold" is basically him reworking "Yours Truly" for STAR TREK.
Never met Bloch in person, but I have a nice letter from him in my files somewhere, when he graciously gave me a quote on a book I was editing.
My theory:
The Nicolas Meyer directed "Time After Time" (1979) is actually the origin story of the Jack The Ripper entity from the episode of Star Trek "Wolf In The Fold" (1967). That when H.G. Wells (Malcolm McDowell) dispatched Jack The Ripper/John Leslie Stevenson (David Warner) it sent him hurtling through space as described in ST's WitF.
The Nicolas Meyer directed "Time After Time" (1979) is actually the origin story of the Jack The Ripper entity from the episode of Star Trek "Wolf In The Fold" (1967). That when H.G. Wells (Malcolm McDowell) dispatched Jack The Ripper/John Leslie Stevenson (David Warner) it sent him hurtling through space as described in ST's WitF.
"Time After Time" is one of my favorite films and one of my favorite novels.
I was 12 when the movie came out. Didn't see it in the theater, but ordered the novel from Scholastic Books. When that arrived, inside it said "abridged". It was years later when I found an unabridged copy that I found out why. David Alexander included material early on in the story that involved Jack having an incestuous relationship with his sister.
Alexander published a sequel to the story, about ten years ago or so, called "Jaclyn The Ripper" in which Jack was transformed into a girl. Interesting premise, but as I recall the plot was not all that great.
My theory is that "Time After Time" is a Soran and St John Talbot nexus fantasy.
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