Perhaps this might be on another thread someplace,but one ship survived the Borg.Who was it,and why didn't the Enterprise aid them when they arrived at the scene?
Wolf 359...Who Survived?
- Thread starter KlingonPredator
- Start date
Ezri II
Captain
Let us say there was a ship that survived Worf359. What is more important, aid the ship or return to Earth to destroy the Borg? If I was on that ship that did survive Worf359 and the Enterprise came to my aid. Then to find out the Borg was attacking Earth and then to understand the Enterprise could have been there. Would feel that I and my members of the crew and the people that did fight at Worf359 all died in vain.
The ship had apparently already left the system. When the Enterprise arrived, its sensors registered no survivors, not even those from the Saratoga who we know lived. It's likely the surviving ship rescued the personnel who had made it to escape pods and left the system.
The idea that only a single ship would have survived the battle is somewhat unsupportable.
Sure, Admiral Hanson said he had summoned forty ships for defense. But forty is a round number that could also stand for 43 or something like that. And Hanson was expecting more ships to arrive eventually.
When we hear in "Drumhead" that 39 ships and some 11,000 people were lost, there is no indication given what sort of percentage of the total this would represent. For all we know, Hanson had only managed to summon 39 ships, and all of them were lost - but a large percentage of their crews escaped in lifepods that were capable of warping out of sensor range (and engaging stealth mode for survival), while possibly another bunch of people in more primitive sublight escape pods were hunted down and assimilated (we know the Borg can be pedantic with things like that at times).
OTOH, if a ship or several ships did survive the battle, then joining the defenses at Earth might not be a priority for them. The battle would have established that resistance was indeed futile - so Earth might have to be abandoned, and the ships might have to flee to other worlds where their sensor readings might just possibly reveal a crucial weakness in the Borg, a weakness that could be analyzed and perhaps a few brave men be sent in small fightercraft to launch microtorpedoes down the Cube's thermal vent or something.
As for the Endeavour, nothing of her exploits necessitates her having been at Wolf 359. We know that there were many other Borg encounters besides that one: a couple where Picard was involved on screen, and then a couple that we didn't see on screen but that prompted Picard in ST:FC to claim that the Borg had been "advancing" and the Feds had been "falling back". Captain Amasov might have been the hero of those encounters, and Amasov's ship might have survived all of them, just like Picard's survived all of his.
Timo Saloniemi
Sure, Admiral Hanson said he had summoned forty ships for defense. But forty is a round number that could also stand for 43 or something like that. And Hanson was expecting more ships to arrive eventually.
When we hear in "Drumhead" that 39 ships and some 11,000 people were lost, there is no indication given what sort of percentage of the total this would represent. For all we know, Hanson had only managed to summon 39 ships, and all of them were lost - but a large percentage of their crews escaped in lifepods that were capable of warping out of sensor range (and engaging stealth mode for survival), while possibly another bunch of people in more primitive sublight escape pods were hunted down and assimilated (we know the Borg can be pedantic with things like that at times).
OTOH, if a ship or several ships did survive the battle, then joining the defenses at Earth might not be a priority for them. The battle would have established that resistance was indeed futile - so Earth might have to be abandoned, and the ships might have to flee to other worlds where their sensor readings might just possibly reveal a crucial weakness in the Borg, a weakness that could be analyzed and perhaps a few brave men be sent in small fightercraft to launch microtorpedoes down the Cube's thermal vent or something.
As for the Endeavour, nothing of her exploits necessitates her having been at Wolf 359. We know that there were many other Borg encounters besides that one: a couple where Picard was involved on screen, and then a couple that we didn't see on screen but that prompted Picard in ST:FC to claim that the Borg had been "advancing" and the Feds had been "falling back". Captain Amasov might have been the hero of those encounters, and Amasov's ship might have survived all of them, just like Picard's survived all of his.
Timo Saloniemi
This sounds even more plausible when we take the appearance of the Millenium Falcon at the Battle of Sector 001 into account.
Ezri II
Captain
This sounds even more plausible when we take the appearance of the Millenium Falcon at the Battle of Sector 001 into account.
Hmmm, what is harder to blow up a Death Star or a Borg Cube?
MeanJoePhaser
Admiral
That would make sense. All that potentially volatile wreckage, warp cores, etc. You wouldn't wanna hang around.
Or at some point there was a temporal violation that changed history creating a survivors timeline where there had been none, which with Star Trek is probably more likely.
No, that ship was definitely destroyed. I believe it was the Nebula-class ship we see in DS9's pilot episode. It and an Ambassador are seen making a (most likely fatal) run on the Borg ship.
Although the Endeavour (which is probably the one that did survive) was also a Nebula.
I believe Endeavour is mentioned a few other times, and IIRC, a Nebula-Class Endeavour is seen still tooling around post Wolf 359 on LCARS screens.
I've always felt that the Endeavour got away because it was used to rescue as many survivors as possible during the last stages of the battle, while the rag-tag remnants bought some time. Not due to any awesome battle tactic or anything... it just happened to be the evac bus (being the largest surviving ship at the time?).
I've always felt that the Endeavour got away because it was used to rescue as many survivors as possible during the last stages of the battle, while the rag-tag remnants bought some time. Not due to any awesome battle tactic or anything... it just happened to be the evac bus (being the largest surviving ship at the time?).
...OTOH, there is no evidence that the ship was present in that particular battle at all.
And it's clear that the surviving ship or ships got away because they fled, not because they stood their ground. That in mind, I would prefer the escaped ships to have been relatively weak units that could not markedly contribute to the battle, rather than mighty battlewagons such as the Endeavour.
Timo Saloniemi
And it's clear that the surviving ship or ships got away because they fled, not because they stood their ground. That in mind, I would prefer the escaped ships to have been relatively weak units that could not markedly contribute to the battle, rather than mighty battlewagons such as the Endeavour.
Timo Saloniemi
People,
When I first read the thread, I thought the poster meant how many people survived, not how many ships. We do know from DSN ep Emissary that some crew members from Sisko's ship, The Saratoga, survived as they headed to the escape pods before the ship was destroyed.
Therefore, it's possible other survivors from the other destroyed ships managed to reach their ships' respective escape pods. Also, as I recall, it certainly seemed as if all the ships in the attack fleet were destroyed, from the tableau of the wrecked ships seen in The Best of Both Worlds, Pt. II.
BTW, I read Cicero's post after posting this, so I think his explanation makes perfect sense. Taking that into account, perhaps the lone surviving starship, probably wrecked as badly as the Constellation was in The Doomsday Machine, picked up survivors from several ships
Red Ranger
When I first read the thread, I thought the poster meant how many people survived, not how many ships. We do know from DSN ep Emissary that some crew members from Sisko's ship, The Saratoga, survived as they headed to the escape pods before the ship was destroyed.
Therefore, it's possible other survivors from the other destroyed ships managed to reach their ships' respective escape pods. Also, as I recall, it certainly seemed as if all the ships in the attack fleet were destroyed, from the tableau of the wrecked ships seen in The Best of Both Worlds, Pt. II.
BTW, I read Cicero's post after posting this, so I think his explanation makes perfect sense. Taking that into account, perhaps the lone surviving starship, probably wrecked as badly as the Constellation was in The Doomsday Machine, picked up survivors from several ships
Red Ranger
I used to bullseye womp rats in my T-16 back home. They're not much bigger than two meters.
MeanJoePhaser
Admiral
There's no evidence the Borg destroyed the fleet at Wolf 359. Since the Borg wished to improve quality of life for all species, killing negates their mission. It's more likely that all the ships imploded due to the negligence of their captains.
*Goes back to eating meal worms*
*Goes back to eating meal worms*
You know its possible that ship #40 was assimilated and sent back to Borg space after having a transwarp coil installed.
According to the Star Trek Encyclopdia Timo is correct. 39 Starships were destroyed and 11,000 starfleet personall were killed. It does not say how many, if any Starship survived the battle. But, it's safe to assume that not many made it out in one piece.
Wolf 359 is a real star, it is located 7.8LY from earth in the constellation Leo, it is the fourth-closest star from Earth...
Wolf 359 is a real star, it is located 7.8LY from earth in the constellation Leo, it is the fourth-closest star from Earth...
Actually, 11,000 dead from 39 ships destroyed averages out to something along the lines of only 260 or so people per starship.
This would seem to be a rather low number given that many ships probably averaged 500 or more in the crew. Though some would be smaller.
I always assumed that Admiral Hanson was speaking literally when he said that they had "assembled a force of 40 starships".
But he said, that was "only the beginning" and then mentioned the Klingons were sending warships.
Hanson was speaking several hours before the Borg reached Wolf-359, so it is more than possible that additional Starfleet ships and the afore mentioned Klingon ships arrived at Wolf-359 before the Borg did.
When the last transmission from Admiral Hanson during the Battle of Wolf-359 came in to Enterprise, the E-D was still some three hours away from being able to resume warp speed.
Add to that several hours more travel to Wolf-359 and in all likelihood Enterprise cruised through the battle site half a day after the shooting stopped. More than enough time for whatever surviving ships to have rescued survivors and withdrew from the area (possibly due to worries about dangers from the wreckage of 39 ships).
What is surprising is the scenes of battle shown in the DS9 premier.
It appears that Starfleet sends its forces against the Borg ship piecemeal, allowing them to be picked off easily.
I've long theorized that when we see the Saratoga, Melbourne, Bellerophon, and the Ambassador class ship intercept the Borg cube that the cube is in fact dropping out of warp and engaging the Starfleet force in a completely unexpected part of the Wolf-359 system and that those four ships are the only ones in position to engage the Borg early on.
In other words, using Picards knowledge of Starfleet tactics and abilities, the Borg are dropping out of warp to the rear or on the flank of the Starfleet force catching them by surprise.
This would seem to be a rather low number given that many ships probably averaged 500 or more in the crew. Though some would be smaller.
I always assumed that Admiral Hanson was speaking literally when he said that they had "assembled a force of 40 starships".
But he said, that was "only the beginning" and then mentioned the Klingons were sending warships.
Hanson was speaking several hours before the Borg reached Wolf-359, so it is more than possible that additional Starfleet ships and the afore mentioned Klingon ships arrived at Wolf-359 before the Borg did.
When the last transmission from Admiral Hanson during the Battle of Wolf-359 came in to Enterprise, the E-D was still some three hours away from being able to resume warp speed.
Add to that several hours more travel to Wolf-359 and in all likelihood Enterprise cruised through the battle site half a day after the shooting stopped. More than enough time for whatever surviving ships to have rescued survivors and withdrew from the area (possibly due to worries about dangers from the wreckage of 39 ships).
What is surprising is the scenes of battle shown in the DS9 premier.
It appears that Starfleet sends its forces against the Borg ship piecemeal, allowing them to be picked off easily.
I've long theorized that when we see the Saratoga, Melbourne, Bellerophon, and the Ambassador class ship intercept the Borg cube that the cube is in fact dropping out of warp and engaging the Starfleet force in a completely unexpected part of the Wolf-359 system and that those four ships are the only ones in position to engage the Borg early on.
In other words, using Picards knowledge of Starfleet tactics and abilities, the Borg are dropping out of warp to the rear or on the flank of the Starfleet force catching them by surprise.
Something to keep in mind about the Wolf 359 sequence in "Emissary" is that they didn't have the capacity, when using models, to have dozens of ships appear at once; it was 1993, after all.
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