Wiped Episode Discoveries

[The Borgified Corpse]

(They're not animating the missing episodes of "The Crusade" either, even though that story is within their two-episode limit.)

I hadn't heard that they were "definitively" not doing animation for this serial. Is there any official reason for this or has it been left vague, and as a result, is it part of the rumors that the missing episodes have been found, too? Disappointing news to read considering how much I love that serial.

I hadn't heard that they're definately not doing "The Crusade" either. I just figured there were waiting on a decision, probably waiting to see how the sales go for other animated stories like "The Ice Warriors," "The Tenth Planet," "The Underwater Menace," & "The Moonbase."

Morris' statement just says that Web 3 wasn't with the rest of the film cans that contained the eleven episodes. Vanezis has reiterated that, and denied that the episode "has been found but is damaged, or is being held back, or whatever."

IMO, if there were any more episodes about "The Web of Fear" that they knew about, I suspect they would have told us. It doesn't make any sense that they would give us the rest of the story but hold back on a single episode.

Unfortunately, no fan is ever going to take anything said by Morris or Vanezis at face value ever again. They both denied everything so vehemently. Morris even went so far as to say that there was absolutely no possibility that there were any further episodes to be found anywhere. (Which is clearly rediculous because the fates of so many episodes are still unknown. If we knew where everything was, we wouldn't be looking. Even before all this started, the 2011 finds proved that there were still bits & pieces floating around out there.)

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Yeah, while I could see them not announcing a different serial, it would be a PR disaster to sell all but one episode of a serial only to sell it later for no justifiable reason.

 

[Christopher]

Unfortunately, no fan is ever going to take anything said by Morris or Vanezis at face value ever again. They both denied everything so vehemently. Morris even went so far as to say that there was absolutely no possibility that there were any further episodes to be found anywhere.

When did he say that? Because, as I remarked earlier, he said just the opposite on the "Reign of Terror" DVD commentary, that the search wasn't finished yet so nothing could be completely ruled out.

 

[Candlelight]

I hadn't heard that they're definately not doing "The Crusade" either. I just figured there were waiting on a decision, probably waiting to see how the sales go for other animated stories like "The Ice Warriors," "The Tenth Planet," "The Underwater Menace," & "The Moonbase."

The Crusade has the issue of the final installment being missing, and even though there are two other stories in the same predicament, The Tenth Planet has it's historical importance and The Underwater Menace has it's recently recovered status to help out.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Yeah, if there's any episode its worth animating, it would be the Tenth Planet because of its status as the last Hartnell episode and first Regeneration ever. It's probably worth animating the last episode for that reason.

I know there are a lot of legal niceties that would make it difficult, but I guarantee we could get all the episodes animated if it were an open source fan project. Unfortunately, fans couldn't profit off of it nor could the BBC likely profit off the fan's work, so it likely won't ever happen.

 

[Brendan Moody]

Unfortunately, no fan is ever going to take anything said by Morris or Vanezis at face value ever again. They both denied everything so vehemently. Morris even went so far as to say that there was absolutely no possibility that there were any further episodes to be found anywhere.

When did he say that? Because, as I remarked earlier, he said just the opposite on the "Reign of Terror" DVD commentary, that the search wasn't finished yet so nothing could be completely ruled out.

It was in a since-deleted statement on his organization's Facebook page. The text was:

T.I.E.A DOES NOT HOLD ANY MISSING EPISODES OF THE LONG RUNNING DR WHO SERIES. THE ORIGINAL VIDEO TAPES WERE WIPED SUBSEQUENT FILM COPIES WERE EITHER RETURNED TO THE BBC AND SENT TO LANDFILL ODD FRAGMENTS HAVE SURFACED TWO EPISODES ON 16MM FILM BUT THATS IT. THE PROGRAMMES IN QUESTION LIKE MANY OTHERS WERE DESTROYED AS THEY HAD NO FURTHER COMMERCIAL VALUE .THEY ARE NOT MISSING BUT DESTROYED THE END.I am sorry if this upsets some people but these are the facts.I have also become aware of the tracking of some of our clients shipments these are local cultural materials sent to us for migration to a modern format as the playback equipment in the country of origin no longer exists and as such is the best road to preserve international cultural heritage .I will be making no more statements on this subject.Philip MORRIS Executive director T.i.e.a

Vanezis' denials tended to address versions of the rumor that were inaccurate in some way, so they weren't dishonest as such, but Morris' statement doesn't seem to have any such get-out clause.

The sales for "The Reign of Terror," which as a Hartnell pure historical is the best guide to what "The Crusade" might do, will have been available for months now. I imagine they've made their decision, whether or not it's ever going to be announced as such.

 

[N-121973]

The Beeb have clarified the information on the provisional covers is wrong and we're looking at single disc (and presumably extra light if not extraless) releases.

I've got to be careful how I preface this as obviously I'm very grateful for thais and any possible future story finds, we're lucky to be getting to see them at all and I don't want to seem ungrateful. Kudos to the men and women responsible for the find and restoration, but, whilst I was impatient for the news of rediscovered episodes to be announced, I am quite willing to wait until well into next year if necessary for DVD releases of these episodes. They can put them out on Itunes as they've done to satisfy the immediate hunger to view them of some fans but I would be quite content to sit and wait for them to be released with full extras (including possibly an animated Web of Fear episode 3) and in standard packaging than have to potentially double dip and buy first one and then the other in November and February.

 

[DWF]

It's a shame that all but ep. of The Web Of Fear has been found, I've still love to see the first meeting between the Doctor and then Col. Lethbridge-Stewart.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

I like to believe that, if it hasn't been found, that its in the process of being found. If its never to be found, then at least get proper animation for it, cause it'd be sad to have it complete in some way.

 

[Candlelight]

I like to believe that, if it hasn't been found, that its in the process of being found. If its never to be found, then at least get proper animation for it, cause it'd be sad to have it complete in some way.

I think the large gap between iTunes and DVD releases is so the profits from iTunes will fund the animation.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

It's a shame that all but ep. of The Web Of Fear has been found, I've still love to see the first meeting between the Doctor and then Col. Lethbridge-Stewart.

If it helps any, we don't actually see their first meeting. It occurs behind the scenes because Patrick Troughton was on holiday during episode two and episode three leaps right to The Doctor and Lethbridge-Stewart finding Victoria. I hadn't forgotten that little tidbit until I watched the recovered episodes (and the reconstructed episode three).

 

[Chris3123]

The next issue of Doctor Who Magazine, #466, will feature two different covers:

Doctor Who News

Issue details at the link above.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Sweet. Hopefully I can find the issue with Salamander on the cover.

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

Unfortunately, no fan is ever going to take anything said by Morris or Vanezis at face value ever again. They both denied everything so vehemently. Morris even went so far as to say that there was absolutely no possibility that there were any further episodes to be found anywhere.

When did he say that? Because, as I remarked earlier, he said just the opposite on the "Reign of Terror" DVD commentary, that the search wasn't finished yet so nothing could be completely ruled out.

It was in a since-deleted statement on his organization's Facebook page. The text was:

T.I.E.A DOES NOT HOLD ANY MISSING EPISODES OF THE LONG RUNNING DR WHO SERIES. THE ORIGINAL VIDEO TAPES WERE WIPED SUBSEQUENT FILM COPIES WERE EITHER RETURNED TO THE BBC AND SENT TO LANDFILL ODD FRAGMENTS HAVE SURFACED TWO EPISODES ON 16MM FILM BUT THATS IT. THE PROGRAMMES IN QUESTION LIKE MANY OTHERS WERE DESTROYED AS THEY HAD NO FURTHER COMMERCIAL VALUE .THEY ARE NOT MISSING BUT DESTROYED THE END.I am sorry if this upsets some people but these are the facts.I have also become aware of the tracking of some of our clients shipments these are local cultural materials sent to us for migration to a modern format as the playback equipment in the country of origin no longer exists and as such is the best road to preserve international cultural heritage .I will be making no more statements on this subject.Philip MORRIS Executive director T.i.e.a

Vanezis' denials tended to address versions of the rumor that were inaccurate in some way, so they weren't dishonest as such, but Morris' statement doesn't seem to have any such get-out clause.

Yeah. I can kinda understand Vanezis' denials. He has such a frequent online presence and seemed to be pestered quite a bit on the subject. Most of his statements seemed to have the underlying subtext of, "Leave me alone, Ian Levine!" (Which, when I say it out loud, sounds like it should be a palindrome.)

But what the hell, Morris?! You're off searching the world for missing Doctor Who episodes while simultaneously giving the show's fans the equivalent of William Shatner's "Get a life!" speech!

 

[diankra]

Actually, there's some careful phrasing in that statement of Morris's: TIEA don't hold any old programmes. What they are doiing, we now know, is carefully checking everywhere that the original TIE sold programmes to, in the hope that they may still hold them.

 

[diankra]

That's an interesting point, but by all accounts Hartnell was a non personal-ist (IYSWIM): he'd rant on about blacks and women and gays, but he was fine with individual people who happened to be black or female or gay, particularly once they won his confidence (such as Verity Lambert and Waris Hussein).
Even the notorious tale of how he treated Max Adrian on The Myth Makers has its subtleties; what shocked Adrian was that Hartnell was being so unpleasant to him given that they'd worked together before and got on well. And the explanation for that seems to be that Hartnell was out of sorts in general and just kicking out at any excuse: Myth Makers was the first story to be produced by John Wiles, so Hartnell was missing Verity Lambert; and Wiles had immediately rubbed Hartnell up the wrong way by effectively sacking Maureen O'Brien (who Hartnell liked immensely), and by refusing to let Hartnell have a day off rehearsals for his aunt's funeral (Hartnell being too proud to admit that, because he was illegitimate and his mother had more or less abandoned him when she did marry, his aunt had raised him and was, in every meaningful way, his mother).

 

[Mr Awe]

^ Thanks for sharing, diankra! As usual, you have lots of interesting info I wasn't aware of!

Mr Awe

 

[Brendan Moody]

Actually, there's some careful phrasing in that statement of Morris's: TIEA don't hold any old programmes. What they are doiing, we now know, is carefully checking everywhere that the original TIE sold programmes to, in the hope that they may still hold them.

That part is carefully worded, and indeed accurate: by that point the episodes from the present recovery had been returned to the BBC and the Restoration Team were working on them. But "THEY ARE NOT MISSING BUT DESTROYED THE END" is hard to parse as accurate, unless you want to argue that "THE PROGRAMMES IN QUESTION" somehow doesn't include the recovered episodes.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

^ Thanks for sharing, diankra! As usual, you have lots of interesting info I wasn't aware of!

Mr Awe

Agreed. I didn't know any of that background history. I wonder if it'll be covered at all in An Adventure in Space and Time.

 

[Candlelight]

Actually, there's some careful phrasing in that statement of Morris's: TIEA don't hold any old programmes. What they are doiing, we now know, is carefully checking everywhere that the original TIE sold programmes to, in the hope that they may still hold them.

I think it was his cheeky follow up about "if you stop talking about them then they'll turn up" was a bit more of a clue.

His rant effectively shot down the rumour in it's tracks in late June, and people stopped talking about them...