Wiped Episode Discoveries
- Thread starter Allyn Gibson
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At this point, Paul Vanezis appears to be actively trolling rumor believers on Twitter. He started off with this:
"A wonderful evening out with several heroes of Doctor Who. Yes, curry and beer. Ruislip is beautifully sunny on this rainy September night."
And when someone bit and asked who the heroes in question were, he answered:
"Hmm. Steve R, Richard Molesworth, Andrew Beech, Gareth Roberts, Sue Cowley + a foreign gentleman with a large film collection."
In what may be a sign of progress, the mood at GB is less "OMG THIS IS EVIDENCE" and more "OMG HOW DARE HE MOCK US FOR BELIEVING RIDICULOUS CLAIMS AND CALLING HIM A LIAR."
In other "news," a couple retailers have shifted their release dates for the DVD of "The Tenth Planet" from 18 November to 14 October. It might be a mistake, or it might be a matter of shifting schedules because "The Moonbase" was delayed. But if you're a believer, it's evidence that a secret release is coming in November. Of course, nothing else has been passed by the BBFC, but what does that matter?
"A wonderful evening out with several heroes of Doctor Who. Yes, curry and beer. Ruislip is beautifully sunny on this rainy September night."
And when someone bit and asked who the heroes in question were, he answered:
"Hmm. Steve R, Richard Molesworth, Andrew Beech, Gareth Roberts, Sue Cowley + a foreign gentleman with a large film collection."
In what may be a sign of progress, the mood at GB is less "OMG THIS IS EVIDENCE" and more "OMG HOW DARE HE MOCK US FOR BELIEVING RIDICULOUS CLAIMS AND CALLING HIM A LIAR."
In other "news," a couple retailers have shifted their release dates for the DVD of "The Tenth Planet" from 18 November to 14 October. It might be a mistake, or it might be a matter of shifting schedules because "The Moonbase" was delayed. But if you're a believer, it's evidence that a secret release is coming in November. Of course, nothing else has been passed by the BBFC, but what does that matter?
How many were confirmed? As far as I remember only the NZ prints of Evil were known to have been destroyed? The rest were returned to the BBC.
(I haven't read Wiped in ages, nor do I own the 2nd edition).
I love his reaction when someone asks him about Perivale, the site of a recent screening of "Enemy of the World" for BNFs according to rumor. (It helps to know the NATO phonetic alphabet.)
I understand his reaction. He's been badgered for months by total strangers and that's both wearing and annoying. He just wants to live his life, and he has people digging into his life and taunting him with things they think they know.
At the same time, he hasn't exactly covered himself in professionalism with his reactions. There are fans who really believe this, and he's egging them on with tweets that can read as suggesting a discovery but then played off as something entirely different when questioned, or he's mocking them like with the dinner tweets. Yes, he's in a position where he can belittle fans for what they believe, but just because can belittle someone doesn't mean that as a professional he should.
You're right to call me on that; I was being imprecise, which usually isn't a problem, but on this subject is an invitation to trouble.
I meant, confirmed destroyed, or returned to the BBC, but given when they would have been returned to the BBC it's a safe bet that Enterprises then destroyed them, some time prior to 1978.
Doesn't mean that a rogue print or two couldn't have got missed, or spirited away, but it makes me very, very sceptical about any talk of complete serial recoveries that includes Masterplan (ignoring the Feast of Steven problem), Power or Evil.
A single episode or two is obviously possible, so if one turned up from Tenth Planet then... it'd probably be one of the three we've already got!
One interesting detail to emerge out of the discussion of the Omnirumour is that Vanezis has stated that he has reason to believe that "The Feast of Steven" was telerecorded despite the lack of any documentation of a telerecording.
He hasn't said why he thinks that, and I'm curious what evidence he has to conclude that it wasn't irretrievably lost from virtually the moment it was broadcast.
Well, it wasn't lost til the tape was cleared for wiping in summer 67 (a good 18 months after broadcast), and possibly not actually for some time after that, but I follow you.
If he's said that, I'd GUESS that he may have found evidence that even if Enterprises didn't telerecord it, a TR might have been made so some BBC boss could view it to see if making a funny Doctor Who episode for Christmas had been a good idea. Not impossible, just not something we've heard any hint of until now (though if it had happened, you'd think the print would then have ended up at the film library).
If he's said that, I'd GUESS that he may have found evidence that even if Enterprises didn't telerecord it, a TR might have been made so some BBC boss could view it to see if making a funny Doctor Who episode for Christmas had been a good idea. Not impossible, just not something we've heard any hint of until now (though if it had happened, you'd think the print would then have ended up at the film library).
I wasn't being a pain, merely wondering if you knew of confirmed events. Someone mentioned Enterprises' copy of The Daleks Master Plan prints (negs?) were junked in 1973 or 74 but I can't remember who or which thread (on the M.E forum). Could've been Richard Molesworth.
So Scot Ferre, the GB poster with "sources" who has been propping up the rumor almost singlehandedly for weeks now, is backing off his previous certainty that 90+ episodes have been found; now it may only be several. (Also, an announcement may be imminent rather than two years off. Funny how rapidly plans change.) And of course people who have been believing everything they read are disappointed that it will "only" be several episodes rather than dozens. "Only" the largest return in 20 years-- that's a preview of what will happen if an actual discovery is announced after these rumors have gotten people expecting the borderline impossible.
Well, last November I'd heard "a complete Hartnell-" had been found (Specifically, FTW, Marco Polo), but we now know it was "a complete Hartnell *TV interview*" so I wouldn't be expecting anything else. Not even Marco Polo.
The other sad thing is that now if anything is ever found from here on in - cos the omnirumour won't stop the industry pros looking - the fan-sheep will assume it was part of the magic omnifind and proof that this summer's bullshit was true, rather than, well, just its own thing.
The other sad thing is that now if anything is ever found from here on in - cos the omnirumour won't stop the industry pros looking - the fan-sheep will assume it was part of the magic omnifind and proof that this summer's bullshit was true, rather than, well, just its own thing.
Yep. I mean, if there were to be a large find, it'll most likely be season three (same as the Sierra Leone batch), and there will be huge wails that it's all Hartnell, no Troughton, and three stories that already existed, and three boring historicals, and no Dalek Masterplan, and.... wah, wah, not fair, not fair!!!
Someone who wails about "The Massacre" being discovered can leave this planet right now and never come back.
The Abbot of Amboise would like to hire you for his staff, sir, you've got the right stuff!
I need to rewatch Star Trek: Generations again. Remind myself of a simpler time before Doctor Who & the internet got me all hot & bothered over nothing.
It could be from any story. The handful of orphans recovered over the years came from Australia and likely came from an employee who grabbed a handful to sell off. Imagine if there was a fan working there who did the same but nicked episodes he wanted to keep.
In New Zealand we have rumours of something similar, such as episodes of Macra Terror and Highlanders surviving years after their known destruction date. Nothing has been heard of said rumours since the 1970s however (both of which stem from Neil Lambess, who found The Crusade 1 in 1999).
I'm working on the basis that we've only ever had complete stories come back from TV stations, and we'll only get complete stories from TV stations (or distributors, if there were any other than TIE). So far all collectors and such sources have only ever returned single odd episodes (Ok, two from the same story in the case of Masterplan 5 & 10).
It's partly an Occam's Razor thing: anyone who managed to take an entire story rather than a single episode knew what he was taking. If so, then he'd now know how unique it now is. So they must be deliberately with-holding them, in which case they might as well not exist, as how could we now persuade him to give them up, after all these years?
And all that comes far too close to '"It all exists, Dr No has got them!" for comfort anyway! If there's any complete stories out there, they're in a neglected TV station film vault.
Simpler times
Depends. Someone who was a fan took them then left the BBC out of guilt OR didn't want them junked and fled somewhere where he couldn't be found, not knowing he has the long-sought-after collection of The Power of the Daleks.
He may not have seen the note that in 1978 the BBC weren't destroying stuff anymore...
It's possible, but somehow... if someone was motivated enough to take an entire story, not just an episode or two like with Masterplan 2, my gut feeling is that they'd be interested enough in the series to know the current position.
This doesn't rule out there being film cans in the attic of a now deceased ex-BBC person, of course...
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