Wiped Episode Discoveries

[Candlelight]

Re: Rumors of a Special Surprise for the Anniversary

I saw one of those already, but not the other.

I, too, am getting excited. For all of his eccentricities, I've never considered Ian a liar, so I really want to believe him here. I'm not sure what to make of the "I was lied to, yes barefaced lied to" bit. If he was lied to before, who is telling him/showing him evidence now?

It's his ego getting in the way. He was probably told nothing was found then someone was 'forced' to show him evidence.

This is starting to get interesting. I still have my doubts, but if Ian has seen a crate full of films with labels then he wouldn't stop until someone unspooled something for him.

Over at the missing episodes forum everything is being shut down in relation to the rumour. Wouldn't surprise me if the forum goes offline soon...

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Re: Rumors of a Special Surprise for the Anniversary

I, too, am getting excited. For all of his eccentricities, I've never considered Ian a liar, so I really want to believe him here. I'm not sure what to make of the "I was lied to, yes barefaced lied to" bit. If he was lied to before, who is telling him/showing him evidence now?

At a guess, the people who "barefaced lied to" him would be the BBC movers and shakers, people like Dan Hall (whom he cited over the weekend), who told him that there wasn't any fire, let alone any smoke. Levine raised a good argument -- why would Hall spend money to animate "The Reign of Terror" and "The Tenth Planet" if the episodes were either back in the BBC's possession or soon to be?

I don't know what the evidence is that Levine is seeing, but it's probably the same evidence that someone passed to Rich Johnston that had him convinced -- until he got shot down from multiple corners.

If what Ian's reporting is correct, there's three tons of film cannisters that need to be gone through, sorted, catalogued, etc. If the BBC found this in late 2011, which is when the rumors about this find started, maybe they weren't deliberately withholding this for the anniversary, maybe it's just going to take them that long to sort out the legalities and wrap their heads around everything they now have.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Re: Rumors of a Special Surprise for the Anniversary

One more Tweet from Ian Levine:

"Final word for tonight. If someone confided in me I would never be discussing this. But they lied + I found the proof so under no obligation."

Not sure what to make of that either. He makes it sound like he independently discovered proof that these episodes exist. How on earth would he be able to do that?

 

[Turbo]

Re: Rumors of a Special Surprise for the Anniversary

Ian Levine really needs to put his ego on a diet.

I think at this point, I'm going to continue to believe that this is indeed a hoax so as not to be disappointed later.

 

[Candlelight]

Re: Rumors of a Special Surprise for the Anniversary

One thing of note is that people are claiming that Paul Vanezis, a member of the Restoration Team, stated the following in a thread (although I'm not sure in what forum of what board, but I don't think it's at GallifreyBase):

"And let this be the final, sensible remark on the matter. The only way this will be resolved is if the BBC decide to make a statement. They won't be doing that here, so if anyone wants to speculate about this ridiculous situation, you can do it elsewhere."

Naturally, most people at GallifreyBase are taking note that he doesn't outright deny the rumors.

Hard to tell; Paul is the faceman for missing episode finds, he and Steve Roberts are always at the front of the search.

There are two possibilities:

- Paul is sick of this rumour and it's taking its toll; he does always jump on and deny rumours so this time he's decided he won't 'stoop to this level'.

- There is a discovery. The pieces aren't quite in place yet so he can't comment either way.

Look to the BBC. That's all we can do now, and wait.

 

[Sindatur]

Re: Rumors of a Special Surprise for the Anniversary

One more Tweet from Ian Levine:

"Final word for tonight. If someone confided in me I would never be discussing this. But they lied + I found the proof so under no obligation."

Not sure what to make of that either. He makes it sound like he independently discovered proof that these episodes exist. How on earth would he be able to do that?

I would guess someone contacted him, saying something to the effect of "Don't let them con you, it really is true, I'm..." (warehouse worker sorting stuff, Engineer who had them, another Executive,...) and said, and "here's the proof", or "come here for the proof" or whatever.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Re: Rumors of a Special Surprise for the Anniversary

Not sure what to make of that either. He makes it sound like he independently discovered proof that these episodes exist. How on earth would he be able to do that?

Look at this one: "Right now I'm holding on to the proof + not leaking it publicly. But I assure you I have proof of 3 tons of film cans arriving"

He may have shipping manifests, inventory logs, that sort of thing, that shows that the BBC took possession of 3 tons of film cannisters in 2011. In short, documentation that the cannisters physically exist. No, that doesn't tell him what's in them, unless he's been given other details.

 

[Candlelight]

Re: Rumors of a Special Surprise for the Anniversary

If what Ian's reporting is correct, there's three tons of film cannisters that need to be gone through, sorted, catalogued, etc. If the BBC found this in late 2011, which is when the rumors about this find started, maybe they weren't deliberately withholding this for the anniversary, maybe it's just going to take them that long to sort out the legalities and wrap their heads around everything they now have.

Levine specifically said he believes 90 episodes have been found. That to me doesn't sound like an uncatalogued crate of films...

One more Tweet from Ian Levine:

"Final word for tonight. If someone confided in me I would never be discussing this. But they lied + I found the proof so under no obligation."

Not sure what to make of that either. He makes it sound like he independently discovered proof that these episodes exist. How on earth would he be able to do that?

He probably smashed through a wall and saw the films lying there.

It would make for nice symmetry if true; Ian found The Daleks 25 years ago this year; the BBC F&VT Library was set up 25 years ago this year. 50th anniversary this year.

Fingers crossed but we've been shot down before...

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Re: Rumors of a Special Surprise for the Anniversary

Whatever the case may be, I find it both odd and disturbing that's it come down to us dissecting Ian Levine's Twitter account.

 

[Sindatur]

Re: Rumors of a Special Surprise for the Anniversary

Not sure what to make of that either. He makes it sound like he independently discovered proof that these episodes exist. How on earth would he be able to do that?

Look at this one: "Right now I'm holding on to the proof + not leaking it publicly. But I assure you I have proof of 3 tons of film cans arriving"

He may have shipping manifests, inventory logs, that sort of thing, that shows that the BBC took possession of 3 tons of film cannisters in 2011. In short, documentation that the cannisters physically exist. No, that doesn't tell him what's in them, unless he's been given other details.

So, using this to bring it back down to Earth (If it actually is true), maybe there are 90 episodes total of a category that includes Doctor Who, and the rumor starter knows there's at least one Evil of the Daleks episode, and someone cried out something like, "Damn, with a haul like this, it could contain the Complete Hartnell era"

*Yea, I know 90 episodes would be far less than 3 tons, that's why I linked the 90 to a category, rather than a complete total*

 

[Mr Awe]

Re: Rumors of a Special Surprise for the Anniversary

People just get their hopes up and want to believe this is happening.

Right. I disbelieve rumors as a rule, but I really, really wished this could be true somehow and I feel disappointed to hear that it's probably untrue, even though that's what I assumed all along.

This describes me exactly. Although now with Ian Levine and his 3 tons of evidence statement, who knows! Holy cow this has been a wild ride.

It's still hard to believe . . . yet disappointing if not true.

Mr Awe

 

[Mr Awe]

Re: Rumors of a Special Surprise for the Anniversary

One more Tweet from Ian Levine:

"Final word for tonight. If someone confided in me I would never be discussing this. But they lied + I found the proof so under no obligation."

Not sure what to make of that either. He makes it sound like he independently discovered proof that these episodes exist. How on earth would he be able to do that?

This is very strange, but it reduces my confidence in his tale. It sounds like he thinks someone was trying to convince him it wasn't true but in the process he saw through it and in fact saw proof that it is true.

That makes no sense and really gives me the idea that someone is playing him.

Despite that, I'm getting my hopes up darn it!

Mr Awe

 

[Turbo]

Re: Rumors of a Special Surprise for the Anniversary

For the record, if the rumor is true, and Ian Levine's previous beliefs are to be believed, here's what's still missing:

Mission to the Unknown
The Daleks' Master Plan 1, 3, 4, 5-9, 11 & 12
The Ice Warriors 2 & 3
The Wheel in Space - 2 episodes
The Invasion 1 & 4

Link to Gallifrey Base (yeah, I know) (Thanks to Emh for sending me in this direction.)

So we'd have Power of the Daleks? Evil of the Daleks? The Moonbase? Marco Polo? The Web of Fear? Oh please be true.

 

[Sindatur]

Re: Rumors of a Special Surprise for the Anniversary

People just get their hopes up and want to believe this is happening.

Right. I disbelieve rumors as a rule, but I really, really wished this could be true somehow and I feel disappointed to hear that it's probably untrue, even though that's what I assumed all along.

This describes me exactly. Although now with Ian Levine and his 3 tons of evidence statement, who knows! Holy cow this has been a wild ride.

It's still hard to believe . . . yet disappointing if not true.

Mr Awe

Now see, the Rumor reporting was clearly labeled "Rumor". Levine has now pasted "I have evidence" on top of the original Rumor. Now that is worthy of backlash if not true (at least he must have some proof that would give him this confidence, if it turns out the rumor is not true)

 

[Mr Awe]

Re: Rumors of a Special Surprise for the Anniversary

Not sure what to make of that either. He makes it sound like he independently discovered proof that these episodes exist. How on earth would he be able to do that?

Look at this one: "Right now I'm holding on to the proof + not leaking it publicly. But I assure you I have proof of 3 tons of film cans arriving"

He may have shipping manifests, inventory logs, that sort of thing, that shows that the BBC took possession of 3 tons of film cannisters in 2011. In short, documentation that the cannisters physically exist. No, that doesn't tell him what's in them, unless he's been given other details.

The fact that they supposedly arrived in 2011 really makes me question this. No way it takes the BBC that long to catalog what they received. No way.

Mr Awe

 

[Sindatur]

Re: Rumors of a Special Surprise for the Anniversary

Not sure what to make of that either. He makes it sound like he independently discovered proof that these episodes exist. How on earth would he be able to do that?

Look at this one: "Right now I'm holding on to the proof + not leaking it publicly. But I assure you I have proof of 3 tons of film cans arriving"

He may have shipping manifests, inventory logs, that sort of thing, that shows that the BBC took possession of 3 tons of film cannisters in 2011. In short, documentation that the cannisters physically exist. No, that doesn't tell him what's in them, unless he's been given other details.

The fact that they supposedly arrived in 2011 really makes me question this. No way it takes the BBC that long to catalog what they received. No way.

Mr Awe

Must they have taken them into possesion at the beginning of the Rumor? (Did the Tweet specifically say the 3 tons arrived at BBC possession in 2011?) Couldn't they have made assumptions at the beginning of the rumor, and took possesion in mid-late 2012, and are now deciding what to do exactly on the roadmap with all the now cataloged finds (Remember, it's not just Doctor Who, but, many other treasures that have been lost as well. Though they all likely have their own teams, someone's gotta strategize the all encompassing roadmap)

 

[Mr Awe]

Re: Rumors of a Special Surprise for the Anniversary

^ From one of Ian's tweets:

"Just three serials is a bad joke.There are literally three tons of film cans and that's just from 2011. I have the actual proof"

It almost sounds like more arrive later, which could mean there wasn't time to catalog all of it. It could also mean that Ian only has evidence for the 3 tons in 2011 but thinks there could be more (but no evidence of it).

It's all pretty unclear but Ian thinks he has proof that 3 tons arrived in 2011. Those 3 tons are linked to the 90 episodes. Those would be fully cataloged by now even if they arrived Dec 31, 2011.

Mr Awe

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Re: Rumors of a Special Surprise for the Anniversary

Right. I disbelieve rumors as a rule, but I really, really wished this could be true somehow and I feel disappointed to hear that it's probably untrue, even though that's what I assumed all along.

This describes me exactly. Although now with Ian Levine and his 3 tons of evidence statement, who knows! Holy cow this has been a wild ride.

It's still hard to believe . . . yet disappointing if not true.

Mr Awe

Now see, the Rumor reporting was clearly labeled "Rumor". Levine has now pasted "I have evidence" on top of the original Rumor. Now that is worthy of backlash if not true (at least he must have some proof that would give him this confidence, if it turns out the rumor is not true)

Worthy of backlash, yes, but remember Ian Levine is just a fan with a Twitter account. He's not a reporter, not even a paid blogger. Just a guy with a keyboard and internet connection.

Not saying that makes it alright, just saying he's in a different position from Rich Johnson.

Look at this one: "Right now I'm holding on to the proof + not leaking it publicly. But I assure you I have proof of 3 tons of film cans arriving"

He may have shipping manifests, inventory logs, that sort of thing, that shows that the BBC took possession of 3 tons of film cannisters in 2011. In short, documentation that the cannisters physically exist. No, that doesn't tell him what's in them, unless he's been given other details.

The fact that they supposedly arrived in 2011 really makes me question this. No way it takes the BBC that long to catalog what they received. No way.

Mr Awe

Must they have taken them into possesion at the beginning of the Rumor? (Did the Tweet specifically say the 3 tons arrived at BBC possession in 2011?)

All he says is the "3 tons proof is from 2011." Who knows if that's when the proof first showed up or when the 8,000 cans were actually retrieved. Either way, that's a lot of films to go through, and depending on the quality, one would have to be very careful with each of them. I can see that being a very time consuming process.

 

[Candlelight]

Re: Rumors of a Special Surprise for the Anniversary

So lets join the dots:

8000 films in a shipment arrive at the BBC in 2011, apparently containing (at least) 90 episodes of Doctor Who, source unknown.

Somehow an African engineer gets mixed up in all this.

The Tenth Planet (sold to Australia, New Zealand and Singapore) and The Evil of the Daleks (sold to Australia, New Zealand, Singapore and Hong Kong) are mentioned by name. Neither of these stories reached Africa.

Mission, Master Plan, Warriors, Invasion and two episodes from Wheel are still missing (with the exception of the Hartnell stories - although Mission is may have - the others all went to Singapore).

Add to this:

Anneke Wills (Polly) is hushed by a minder after starting to talk about The Power of the Daleks (which screened in Singapore).

Despite being found nearly two years ago, The Underwater Menace 2 hasn't been released yet. Are we waiting on the remaining two missing installments to be announced...? (also went to Singapore).

My guess:

The Singaporean shipment finally made it home to the BBC, 40 years after setting sail on the Flying Dutchman.

 

[Candlelight]

The other thread is doing better than this one.

http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=216712

Mods maybe close this one?