Fair do's. I should get out more anyway.
WIP - TMP Enterprise, deck by deck
- Thread starter CTM
- Start date
Actually, I wish I'd seen that thread sooner - its the exact same discussion!
It was one I started before I started this project - because I needed to settle that point before I could even start the construction. From a design standpoint, everything hinges on where the intermix is located. I reached my conclusion in that thread, and moved on to start this build.
Strictly speaking, it proceeded FROM an antimatter source. The top of the intermix--the impulse deflection crystal--is not a deuterium injector, it's a transfer point between the intermix chamber and the impulse engines. As Probert explained once, the entire purpose of the intermix chamber is to connect the matter/antimatter reactor to all the engine parts that will make use of its power. Those same schematics also show an auxiliary fusion generator on S-Deck (feeding into the intermix chamber incase the main reactor fails) and likewise show the reactor itself on U-Deck; THAT reactor at the bottom of the shaft IS the warp core. If you don't believe me, go to sheet nine and read the synopsis for U-Deck where it says:
Apart from basically placing the ramscoop in the main deflector dish (as I always thought it should be) this would also mean the ship's deuterium stores are small to non-existence since at warp speed the ship runs almost entirely on material gathered from the interstellar medium.
Come to think of it, CTM, that's a tricky choice to make once you get to work on the navigational deflector. Especially considering your designs are based on this blueprint, if you put the ramscoop in the deflector, you'd have to flesh out some kind of plumbing system in the front of the engineering hull to route deuterium to where it needs to go.
I've often wondered about this... the apparent lack of "TOS-ish" bussard collectors on the TMP ship nacelles may have been due to the determination that the deflector, on its own, was able to collect enough material to support the ship's needs.
For the TOS ship, I generally assume that the dish doesn't have any collection capabilities. For TNG-era ships, they've gone back to having a collector on each nacelle (excepting for one "First Contact Armada" ship which seems to have them on the main hull, albeit in line with the nacelles).
But the feasibility of having the deflector/collector be coaxial seems too obvious not to at least give a little attention to.
Perhaps the "ring of lights" around the dish on the TMP ship are actually the hydrogen intakes?
I just find the "black slat" front end of the TMP nacelles to be... well... disappointing and dull. Then again, I've never been a big fan of the TMP engines, so I'm a bit biased there.
That's EXACTLY what I was just thinking. If I was going to use a giant force beam to funnel hydrogen into a fuel tank, that's where I'd put the intakes.
Saquist
Commodore
AH!
I get it now.
The The Motion Picture ships weren't using Dilithium to mediate the reaction! If memory serves... The Star Trek Flight Chronology notes that anti-matter reactors existed BEFORE the discovery of Dilithium Crystals. Matter and Antimatter were brought together in an undisclosed method.
So she Dilithium was discovered they designed a system to funnel the reaction plasma Through the crystal.
Eventually the 24th century combined the Dilithium Crystal Chamber and the Reactor vessel. This must be why Warp Cores are now potentially much more unstable.
Fascinating...
Well, strictly speaking the dilithium crystals were originally conceived as a power-conversion element (as per TOS) and not as a mediator for matter and antimatter (which, technically, need no mediator since they react ON CONTACT). The TMP designs probably used dilithum as a kind of lens to help focus and control the intensely energetic products of the reactor, without which the power flow cannot be controlled and the engines become inefficient to the point of uselessness.
Folks, sorry for the delay in getting back to this project. I got slammed with a last-minute heavy-duty project at work (the key guy had his wife go into labor and I had to cover for him at the last minute), then I had to deal with a funeral, a wedding, and a 100th birthday party (Is it a good sign for me that the centenarian is in better health than I am??). I am back, and I promise once I dig through the backlog of housework and honeydo lists, I'll get back to working on this project. Sorry for the delay, and just to reassure folks, I haven't abandoned it.
Hey, they say that stress is the main factor in health... so as long as you survive to retirement without doing serious damage to yourself, you can "destress" for the next few decades. Makes PERFECT sense to me.
I know that I had more grey hair when I was younger than I have now... because I've removed several sources of stress from my life!
Hey, they say that stress is the main factor in health... so as long as you survive to retirement without doing serious damage to yourself, you can "destress" for the next few decades. Makes PERFECT sense to me.
I know that I had more grey hair when I was younger than I have now... because I've removed several sources of stress from my life!
Yeah... getting shown up by a 100-year-old-man was a bit of a wake-up-call. If I want to still be around in the many decades it will take me to reach that same mark, I need to lose some weight and get some more exercise, and relax more. The catch is finding the right amount of stress - too little and you fade into oblivion, too much and you keel over too young. While I have great fun and relaxation doing the modeling, it does require some energy - energy I don't really have after the last few weekends. This is a vegetation weekend. I have another CAD project that I need to complete for a club before I can get back to this one (nowhere near as in depth as this project). I just don't want folks thinking I've abandoned this project out of frustration etc. I haven't. I'll probably be getting back to it in a few more weeks.
This discussion on the fitting of Engineering into the refit hull inspired me to look at the question myself. After looking at various blueprint versions of the refit, and tracing the centerline of the struts through the centerline of the secondary hull, like this (image from memory alpha):
I have come to the conclusion that Engineering should ROUGHLY fit like so (original by Andy Probert):
This assumes two caveats:
1) That the nacelle "power conduits" run straight from the main conduit without any curves or angles through the struts to the engines.
2) That the blueprints are accurate. (FWIW, I own the TMP blueprints and Scotty's Guide and a physical check of those are consistent with what I found by examining other folks' work found online. See below.)
Anyway, I thought that this info might help with your ceiling problem...
(I looked at Shaw's Phase II stuff , Richard Taylor's pre-greebled refit (d/l'ed from Forgotten Trek), model photos, online blueprints like this and printed works.)
I have come to the conclusion that Engineering should ROUGHLY fit like so (original by Andy Probert):
This assumes two caveats:
1) That the nacelle "power conduits" run straight from the main conduit without any curves or angles through the struts to the engines.
2) That the blueprints are accurate. (FWIW, I own the TMP blueprints and Scotty's Guide and a physical check of those are consistent with what I found by examining other folks' work found online. See below.)
Anyway, I thought that this info might help with your ceiling problem...
(I looked at Shaw's Phase II stuff , Richard Taylor's pre-greebled refit (d/l'ed from Forgotten Trek), model photos, online blueprints like this and printed works.)
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This discussion on the fitting of Engineering into the refit hull inspired me to look at the question myself. After looking at various blueprint versions of the refit, and tracing the centerline of the struts through the centerline of the secondary hull, like this (image from memory alpha):
I have come to the conclusion that Engineering should ROUGHLY fit like so (original by Andy Probert):
This assumes two caveats:
1) That the nacelle "power conduits" run straight from the main conduit without any curves or angles through the struts to the engines.
2) That the blueprints are accurate. (FWIW, I own the TMP blueprints and Scotty's Guide and a physical check of those are consistent with what I found by examining other folks' work found online. See below.)
Anyway, I thought that this info might help with your ceiling problem...
(I looked at Shaw's Phase II stuff , Richard Taylor's pre-greebled refit (d/l'ed from Forgotten Trek), model photos, online blueprints like this and printed works.)
Yeah, I was kinda expecting I would have to adjust the location of the Engineering Deck.
It's not surprising... but thanks for doing that before anyone else got around to it, BK613!This discussion on the fitting of Engineering into the refit hull inspired me to look at the question myself. After looking at various blueprint versions of the refit, and tracing the centerline of the struts through the centerline of the secondary hull, like this (image from memory alpha):
I have come to the conclusion that Engineering should ROUGHLY fit like so (original by Andy Probert):
This assumes two caveats:
1) That the nacelle "power conduits" run straight from the main conduit without any curves or angles through the struts to the engines.
2) That the blueprints are accurate. (FWIW, I own the TMP blueprints and Scotty's Guide and a physical check of those are consistent with what I found by examining other folks' work found online. See below.)
Anyway, I thought that this info might help with your ceiling problem...
(I looked at Shaw's Phase II stuff , Richard Taylor's pre-greebled refit (d/l'ed from Forgotten Trek), model photos, online blueprints like this and printed works.)
Yeah, I was kinda expecting I would have to adjust the location of the Engineering Deck.
I wonder if Andrew is watching this thread... if so, Andrew... what is your "semi-official" (aka, the designer, not the studio) take on this?
If you look closely at how the hull intersects the "Main Engineering" space where the Vertical Intermix connects to the Horizontal... there is nowhere near enough space for a reasonable ceiling. If I lower the deck a meter or so, it will fit AND line up.
Try this,
http://fesarius.hp.infoseek.co.jp/1701refit.shtml
Scroll down, there is a wireframe where you can see how engineering fits.
Also for references try this link:
http://www.foundation3d.com/forums/showthread.php?t=198
http://fesarius.hp.infoseek.co.jp/1701refit.shtml
Scroll down, there is a wireframe where you can see how engineering fits.
Also for references try this link:
http://www.foundation3d.com/forums/showthread.php?t=198
