Winona Kirk in Starfleet?

[Cronos6939]

My wife brought up the point that families were not brought on missions in the 23rd century. Though that practice is not necessarily canon and the film is thirty years before TOS, the idea fits with what was presented in TOS.

There is little reason for a civilian (a very pregnant one at that) to be on a starship exploring the dangers of deep space. And if Winona were going to go visit George so that he could see little Jimmy being born, wouldn't she have brought her elder son, Sam, along to see daddy and meet his new brother? Or, more likely, wouldn't George have taken some shore leave back on Earth for such an event?

Unless Winona was in Starfleet, also serving aboard the Kelvin. Thoughts?

 

[T'Paul]

My wife brought up the point that families were not brought on missions in the 23rd century. Though that practice is not necessarily canon and the film is thirty years before TOS, the idea fits with what was presented in TOS.

There is little reason for a civilian (a very pregnant one at that) to be on a starship exploring the dangers of deep space. And if Winona were going to go visit George so that he could see little Jimmy being born, wouldn't she have brought her elder son, Sam, along to see daddy and meet his new brother? Or, more likely, wouldn't George have taken some shore leave back on Earth for such an event?

Unless Winona was in Starfleet, also serving aboard the Kelvin. Thoughts?

I don't think they would have been able to have that dramatic birth scene without a pregnant Winona on Kelvin.

 

[Aaron McGuire]

We are of course assuming that the Kelvan was on an exploration mission and not schleping colonists or something from point a to point b. They could've just stopped to check out Nero's black hole while doing something else.

Aaron McGuire

 

[donners22]

They had a crew of 800, which is a hell of a lot for that time - I can only assume many were civilians.

 

[CommanderRaytas]

You're all assuming that in the new continuity, Jimmy has an older brother. I was under the impression that he's the only child. After all, his parents were very young.

As for Winona being on board, it doesn't take much to come up with a reasonable explanation.

 

[donners22]

The events that changed the timeline would not have prevented Jim's older brother being born, since Nero first encountered Starfleet at Jim's birth. I could understand it somehow causing his brother's subsequent death, but not preventing his birth.

 

[EJA]

It would be no real problem for me if Winona was an enlisted crewmember on the Kelvin. I can accept the idea that some small family units may have been allowed to travel on starships in the early 23rd century; the idea that this didn't happen prior to the TNG era was never all that strongly enforced. It probably wasn't as common in the TOS era, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen at all.

 

[CommanderRaytas]

I didn't say it prevented his birth, I said that I think he just doesn't exist, as there was no indication of Jim's not being an only child anywhere in the film.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

Did anyone else catch the remark Jim's uncle made during the car chase scene? He said something like "...you're mother may not be on this planet, but as long as you put your feet under my table I won't tolerate this behaviour." (paraphrased, I have only seen the movie once in German...yet)

That suggests to me Winona is indeed in Starfleet and on assignment at that time.

 

[curson]

Did anyone else catch the remark Jim's uncle made during the car chase scene? He said something like "...you're mother may not be on this planet, but as long as you put your feet under my table I won't tolerate this behaviour." (paraphrased, I have only seen the movie once in German...yet)

That suggests to me Winona is indeed in Starfleet and on assignment at that time.

That's an interesting catch.
I remember the dialogue, and in english was 99% the same as that, even if I cannot remember it perfectly. That too made me think that her mother was assigned somewhere else as a Starfleet officer or something, because if travelling as a civilian she could have easily taken her son with her.

Still is strange noone makes mention of it openly, or that Pike doesn't use the fact that Kirk's mother is in Starfleet too when he tries to convince him to enlist after the brawl in the bar. I'll go and ask Cupcakes I'm sure he knows!

 

[Green Shirt]

I didn't say it prevented his birth, I said that I think he just doesn't exist, as there was no indication of Jim's not being an only child anywhere in the film.

Wasn't the older kid he passed on the road while stealing the 'Vette his brother? I'm not sure, but didn't little 'Siberius' call him Sam?

 

[Cky]

You're all assuming that in the new continuity, Jimmy has an older brother. I was under the impression that he's the only child. After all, his parents were very young.

As for Winona being on board, it doesn't take much to come up with a reasonable explanation.

Kirk does have an older brother, George Samuel Kirk. He dies in the TOS episode "Operation -- Annihilate". He's also seen in the 2009 film, he's the boy (or was soppost to be until they cut all his other scenes) that young Kirk drives past and shouts "Johnny!" too.

 

[SalvorHardin]

I didn't say it prevented his birth, I said that I think he just doesn't exist, as there was no indication of Jim's not being an only child anywhere in the film.

Wasn't the older kid he passed on the road while stealing the 'Vette his brother? I'm not sure, but didn't little 'Siberius' call him Sam?

No he didn't call him Sam, he called him Johnny

 

[CommanderRaytas]

You're all assuming that in the new continuity, Jimmy has an older brother. I was under the impression that he's the only child. After all, his parents were very young.

As for Winona being on board, it doesn't take much to come up with a reasonable explanation.

Kirk does have an older brother, George Samuel Kirk. He dies in the TOS episode "Operation -- Annihilate". He's also seen in the 2009 film, he's the boy (or was soppost to be until they cut all his other scenes) that young Kirk drives past and shouts "Johnny!" too.

I know he does in TOS! But there isn't any indication in the film as seen in the cinema. People were talking about Winona being on the Kelvin without her older son (and how that's not plausible), but that's not a valid point of discussion, of saying she shouldn't have been aboard because the older son isn't there... because it wasn't established anywhere that Kirk even has a sibling.

That's all I said.

 

[DiSiLLUSiON]

Kirk does have an older brother, George Samuel Kirk. He dies in the TOS episode "Operation -- Annihilate". He's also seen in the 2009 film, he's the boy (or was soppost to be until they cut all his other scenes) that young Kirk drives past and shouts "Johnny!" too.

It hasn't been established in the movie that that little guy is his brother; it could very well be a friend.

 

[CommanderRaytas]

That's what I meant. He was just a boy called Johnny. Deleted scenes and whatever there might have been, the film in its current shape doesn't give any indication regarding the matter.

 

[ROBE]

I thought he shouted "Sammy". I could be wrong.

 

[CommanderRaytas]

It was Johnny.

 

[Jeri]

Here is another thread on this interesting topic from yesterday: About Mama Kirk

 

[bookworm8571]

It's possible that they left the older boy back on Earth with his grandparents or a friend and they were en route to some conference or some planetary function when all hell broke loose. The Enterprise occasionally transported dignitaries and diplomats during the classic series, so it probably happened on other ships. I think Winona was supposed to have some professional job that probably did mean she traveled from time to time. I don't think she was in Star Fleet.