Windows vs. Escape Pods

[Retroneon]

Windows on a model help to add a sense of scale. And it just looks right. I really really love the various designs of windows on Star Trek. I wish more vehicles and buildings in the real world were as bold with their facade.

But I wouldn't want even opaque aluminum to be the only thing protecting me from space. The outer hull is the first spot where a breach could occur. Aaah! I'd prefer to live a corridor deeper within the ship.

Oh, the humans of the future are far too advanced to divide occupants into classes. Every room should get giant OLED screens that show what is taking place outside the ship. Airline seats today already provide the same thing. A few hundred years from now, digital wallpaper could be a common sight.

I'd feel safer if the hull was covered in escape pods. Compared to how many people you could cram into the volume of a ship, there just never appears to be enough escape pods.

They could take the place of windows, to add surface detail and a sense of scale. Instead of internal lights, the heatshields might have highly reflective surfaces. Or there's a hexagonal ring of light around each of them. They'd have a DS9-like glow about them.

 

[Timo]

I don't really see why the transparent bits of the ship ought to be any weaker than the opaque ones. I mean, for all we know, the entire ship is transparent and parts of it are just painted opaque on top of that for psychological comfort (and for protection from certain wavelengths of radiation). Larry Niven got some mileage out of that concept in his Known Space stories.

OTOH, I agree that windows probably serve little purpose other than being a sort of "default wall monitor" without moving parts or energy needs.

Then again, I'd hate to have a dangerously volatile spacecraft parked between me and enemy fire...

Compared to how many people you could cram into the volume of a ship, there just never appears to be enough escape pods.

Then again, the ships with such pods never seem to cram great numbers of people aboard; the Galaxy could probably accommodate tens if not hundreds of thousands, but has only about a thousand aboard whenever a figure is quoted.

Ships in Kirk's day seemed to be packed tighter. Then again, they didn't have any obvious lifeboats. Perhaps Starfleet decided there was no point in providing them when there could never be enough for everybody? Or when the nearest help would be months away in any case, and chances of survival in a lifeboat close to nil?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Mysterion]

The klingon word for "escape pod" translates roughly to "target practice" in engish.

 

[Retroneon]

The klingon word for "escape pod" translates roughly to "target practice" in engish.

Heh. But at least Klingons know better than to dot their hulls with windows.

@Timo. I wonder if the writers used transparent aluminum to suggest that it's better than glass, but weaker than other metals.

 

[Timo]

I'm not sure how well the suggestion would get through to the audience. After all, they build warships, tanks and combat aircraft out of aluminum, so it might rank among the sturdier protective materials in the minds of the viewers...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Herkimer Jitty]

I don't really see why the transparent bits of the ship ought to be any weaker than the opaque ones. I mean, for all we know, the entire ship is transparent and parts of it are just painted opaque on top of that for psychological comfort (and for protection from certain wavelengths of radiation). Larry Niven got some mileage out of that concept in his Known Space stories.

OTOH, I agree that windows probably serve little purpose other than being a sort of "default wall monitor" without moving parts or energy needs.

Then again, I'd hate to have a dangerously volatile spacecraft parked between me and enemy fire...

Compared to how many people you could cram into the volume of a ship, there just never appears to be enough escape pods.

Then again, the ships with such pods never seem to cram great numbers of people aboard; the Galaxy could probably accommodate tens if not hundreds of thousands, but has only about a thousand aboard whenever a figure is quoted.

Ships in Kirk's day seemed to be packed tighter. Then again, they didn't have any obvious lifeboats. Perhaps Starfleet decided there was no point in providing them when there could never be enough for everybody? Or when the nearest help would be months away in any case, and chances of survival in a lifeboat close to nil?

Timo Saloniemi

Why not?

In ENT, the escape pods on the NX-01 were hidden behind the hull. None of us were ever the wiser that they could have been there the whole time. Sure, it was an alternate reality, but it was a mean nasty alternate reality, and if the mean nasty reality has escape pods, its a sure bet that the reality where lives have more value will definitley have escape pods.

There's nothing stopping Kirk's Enterprise from having escape pods.

 

[Retroneon]

Perhaps having escape pods presents a different kind of challenge. Each connecting airlock would need a perfect seal. The more airlocks you have, the more chances there will be a broken seal.

What do we call the area a pod docks into? Some have a flap that covers the pod. This could be a second layer of protection, to insure a sealed hull. Maybe that's why some ships have no visible escape pods.

For dedicated rooms, such as a mess hall, there's already a lot of people and supplies at the ready. Why should they have to scramble out? I'd like to think some of the escape pods on the NX-01 were self-contained room modules.

On the other hand, a broken flap would block a pod from escaping. Starfleet may have switched to externally visible pods when it became confident in sealing breaches with forcefields.

 

[Timo]

One might choose not to consider those seals "airlocks" or "docking ports" at all, but simply one-off breach lines that are fully airtight originally and fully destroyed at pod launch. That wouldn't be much of an engineering challenge.

Redocking of lifepods seems to be a TNG era option only...

Having the pods of Archer's ISS Enterprise be entire rooms is helpful in one key respect: they are seen firing from a location that leaves lower-than-standing-height spaces above, yet those spaces still feature portholes. If the pods are cabins with skylights, things look slightly more logical. (Of course, the pods themselves do not look much like cabins, and don't have holes corresponding to the skylights...)

http://ent.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/4x18/inamirrordarkly_770.jpg

I guess I could accept the superstructure of Kirk's ship being a separable survival compartment, perhaps in two pieces if necessary - bridge, plus decks 2&3. Or then just the bridge. And perhaps the drooping rim of the saucer is actually a collection of lifeboats, rather than an awkwardly shaped and proportioned deck or a rarely accessed machinery space?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Manticore]

And perhaps the drooping rim of the saucer is actually a collection of lifeboats, rather than an awkwardly shaped and proportioned deck or a rarely accessed machinery space?

Timo Saloniemi

Y'know, I really like that idea. I think that's entering my personal canon.

We do know that the Enterprise had escape pods of some kind post-refit, if I'm remembering some of the dialogue in the Kobayashi Maru scene correctly.

 

[Santaman]

Hmm.. escape pods wouldn't be my prefered way of escaping an oopsie.. besides that, any accident that an escape pod can protect you from is also easily done by the saucer section which is kind of a gigantic escape pod (and more) maybe thats been the big idea in TOS, moreso because you might end up being frozen canned food since Connies were far away from fed space and any help would come too late for people in an escape pod.

Also, any oopsie the saucer section can't protect you from will very much be the end of any escape pod anyway..

 

[Starlock]

Geoffrey Mandel proposed the idea that Turbolifts/Turbo Elevators could be used as Escape Pods/Lifeboats - but obviously the total number available would be limited - so you would still need some form of actual units.

 

[bryce]

In the last movie, the crew of the Kelvin used *shuttles* to escape the ship - which made a lot of sense to me, because shuttles provide more range and maneuverability to reach a habitable planet - and you wouldn't necessarily be stuck there like you would with a one-way drop shuttle-pod - this especially applies to later warp warp-capable shuttles, which could potentially carry survivors to a near-by starbase or a habitable planet in another system. Heck, unless your shuttles had warp drive, the chances of reaching a habitable world are pretty slim, unless you happen to be very near one when an accident occurs. And that seems pretty unlikely...

In fact, after recently re-watching "First Contact", I wondered why they *didn't* also take any shuttles and runabouts, etc with them - I'd take *any* and all craft I could. (Maybe both of the shuttle bays were already taken by the Borg?)

Of course, in the same movie ("Star Trek" 09) was also saw Kirk shot out in an escape pod. (one which, for some reason, seemed to be launched from what, on the refit Enterprise, was an *airlock*...)

Then again, the escape pods we say in "Enterprise" did seem a little bit like mini-shuttles - so maybe they had some range and take-off capability (once they were down, maybe they could fly again, at least in some limited capacity...?)

 

[sojourner]

Realistically, if abandoning ship, I would want to use both the shuttles and the lifepods. Once clear of danger, the shuttles would be used to "corral" the lifepods and look for further help.

 

[Timo]

Indeed, there would probably exist a range of options, just like in the real world.

If your amphibious landing ship is going to explode in two seconds, you jump to the sea in your life vest and nothing else. If it's merely on uncontrollable fire for the next minute, you may run to the nearest larger buoyancy device, be it a simple cork donut, a non-inflatable raft, or a rapidly deployable inflatable. But if you have the luxury of time, you wrestle a proper lifeboat down from its davits and board it for greater survivability - or even wait for the big landing craft to be deployed, or the helicopters to be readied.

Lifepods would be preferable to shuttles in that they can be reached and launched more quickly in most situations. But if you're not in a hurry, or if you know you are absolutely going to need the greater capabilities of the shuttles, the pods would not be the best possible idea.

In ST:FC, we might argue Picard wouldn't want to take any warp technology down to the surface; the idea was to blend in, then die unnoticed deaths - not to try and find means to return to the interstellar community.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[bryce]

Realistically, if abandoning ship, I would want to use both the shuttles and the lifepods. Once clear of danger, the shuttles would be used to "corral" the lifepods and look for further help.

Yeah, exactly...I'd want to use both. Heck, even if we could get most or all of the crew on shuttles & runabouts (scouts, Capitan's yachts, aero shuttles, waveriders, Delta flyers, whatever was available)...I'd still probably want to auto-launch the pods even if all or most were empty - because the contain food rations, water, medical supplies, weapons, tricorders, flashlights, subspace radios, and other supplies - even energy in their batteries...oxygen...material for shelters, or they could serve as shelters themselves...and if I though that all or some of my crew was gonna be stranded on a planet while waiting for help, I'd want them to have as much food and supplies as was possible. In a survival situation, you want *everything* you can get - in plane and boast crashes, sometimes people even salvage the materials of the vehicle itself for shelter, bedding, clothing...even to make sleds, stretchers, tourniquets...stuff to start fires with, to burn, of filter & collect water in...even cook in.

(Sorry...I'm probably going into too much detail, but you get my point.)

I imagine even if the situation was reversed a part of escape procedures could be to auto-launch the shuttles and other auxiliary craft...(at least once everyone was safely off of the ship.)

Indeed, there would probably exist a range of options, just like in the real world.

If your amphibious landing ship is going to explode in two seconds, you jump to the sea in your life vest and nothing else.

I was thinking about this after watching "Star Trek" '09 and thinking about the space-jumps.

Starfleet officers would probably ALL be trained in how to make them (and probably *have* to make at least one in their training or a simulated one on the holodeck) - because there may be a time where shuttles, life boats and ever transporters aren't an portion or aren't available...and all you have as an escape option is to don a spacesuit and *jump*! And if you happened to be in orbit of a planet with a surface...you could do an orbital jump and make it safely to a planetary surface.

It would be an extreme situation that you would have to do this in...but sometimes extreme situations happen.

If it's merely on uncontrollable fire for the next minute, you may run to the nearest larger buoyancy device, be it a simple cork donut, a non-inflatable raft, or a rapidly deployable inflatable. But if you have the luxury of time, you wrestle a proper lifeboat down from its davits and board it for greater survivability - or even wait for the big landing craft to be deployed, or the helicopters to be readied.

Lifepods would be preferable to shuttles in that they can be reached and launched more quickly in most situations. But if you're not in a hurry, or if you know you are absolutely going to need the greater capabilities of the shuttles, the pods would not be the best possible idea.

Yeah, exactly - I think you'd go for the long-range craft first...but if you were in a hurry on the shuttle bay was damaged, you have the lifeboats...or transporters...or even a *suit* if that's all you have! (But like I said above, there may be some situations where you might want to auto-launch the lifeboats too - if you have time - and if you are probably gonna be stranded on a planet for a while while waiting for rescue. (Like if you were on a long-range mission far for the Federation...)

In ST:FC, we might argue Picard wouldn't want to take any warp technology down to the surface; the idea was to blend in, then die unnoticed deaths - not to try and find means to return to the interstellar community.

Yeah...I though about that myself. And maybe that's why they weren't launched. (Though I would still want them - to keep my options open...like perhaps the crew could try to use them to get back the their time - loop around a star at warp in them...or accelerate in them to near-light speeds and let relativistic time-dilation carry you back. But maybe those weren't options for some reason or another...)

 

[Retroneon]

Some of the escape pods conceptually are able to cluster together in a gaggle mode. Survivors can walk between different pods, and be reunited in space. It also allows resources to be transferred.

 

[sojourner]

I always imagined that as part of yellow and red alerts that pilots would man the shuttles and have them ready to fly.

 

[Timo]

...Which would be helpful on those ships that carry large numbers of shuttles - just as readying the single helicopter of a coastal patrol corvette or the dozen choppers of an amphibious landing ship might help with saving quite a fraction of the crew, while readying the sole helicopter of a destroyer would be a futile gesture.

...there may be a time where shuttles, life boats and ever transporters aren't an portion or aren't available...and all you have as an escape option is to don a spacesuit and *jump*!

To be sure, getting properly suited up and in a position that allows jumping would probably often take longer than activating a shuttle.

But there might be special quick-to-wear suits you can slip into very fast, even if they don't allow you to wiggle a finger, let alone negotiate your way out of a dying ship. None of that would matter if such suits were cleverly placed, perhaps in one-suit airlocks on the outer hull, or in superstrong coffins that would survive the destruction of the ship outside them and subsequently release their occupants to escape the no-frills survival space.

The TNG Tech Manual and the Shane Johnson TOS movie manual both describe lightweight survival suits or sacks that differ from the actual spacewalk gear. Neither acknowledges the fairly obvious idea of using the TAS life support belts, even though that would IMHO be the correct place to reinsert those to the Trek continuum: useless for much practical work, vulnerable to most threats (such as phasers on mere stun!), but practical as extremely compact survival devices.

Which is why I like to think that the oversized belt buckles of TMP were life support belts, worn for the duration of the risky maiden voyage of an untested ship by a cautious crew. Plus, wearing them would allow Kirk and pals to exit their ship and accept Vejur's invitation for an otherwise unprotected "spacewalk" with rational confidence.

Timo Saloniemi