Prologue
DICK: Are you about to blatantly rip off Steve Roby?
JANE: Yes.
DICK: Do you still feel Steve Roby is awesome?
JANE: Yes, but I think I've given him all the credit he needs by linking to his post.
DICK: But his Every Fan's Canon Primer is still more important than this?
JANE: Look, I think the EFCP is the greatest thing ever produced by this BBS. But--look. You asked me over here to talk about Bill Shatner and the new Star Trek movie. Can we get down to business?
DICK: Wasn't I supposed to be the one asking the questions?
JANE: *sigh*
Part I: The Premise
DICK: Okay, so let's just get clear what we're talking about. You say there's some kind of movie coming out?
JANE: Yep. Star Trek is coming out this December.
DICK: Nifty name.
JANE: I thought so.
DICK: Has a sort of a ring to it, you know?
JANE: *sigh*
DICK: So what era is it set in?
JANE: Original Series.
DICK: Really? Is the cast young enough to do that anymore? And aren't McCoy and Scotty dead?
JANE: Actually, it's a prequel. It takes place before the beginning of The Original Series. They've recast everyone, right down to Chekov. Chris Pine (from Just My Luck) is playing Kirk.
DICK: So, no Shatner?
JANE: No.
DICK: No Takei.
JANE: Odds are against it.
DICK: No Nichols.
JANE: Don't make me get out my steel-toed Doc Martens of Correction.
DICK: No Nimoy.
JANE: Actually...
Part II: It's Complicated
JANE: ...well, yes. Leonard Nimoy is in the movie. He is playing Old Spock, and apparently has a major role.
DICK: What? That's awesome!
JANE: Yes, it is. But he'll be sharing the screen with the new Young Spock, a fellow by the name of Zachary Quinto.
DICK: So you're saying that Nimoy has a big part in the new movie and not just a cameo to "hand on the torch"?
JANE: That is almost exactly what I said.
DICK: Neat. I'm curious, though... was Shatner unavailable?
JANE: Well... no, actually.
DICK: Then...
JANE: Why isn't he in the movie? Well, first off, we don't have a definitive yes-or-no answer on that. JJ Abrams, the director, has said that, if they can find a way to get him in the movie, absolutely, they will. They're all huge Shatner fans on the set.
DICK: Can you prove that?
JANE: No. But Abrams said it, and I don't see any reason to disbelieve him.
DICK: Well, he's not putting Shatner in the movie! Isn't that evidence enough?!
JANE: Shatner's Old Kirk character died. In Generations. Don't you read history?
DICK: So? JJ could bring him back.
JANE: Abrams has said he and his team have worked long and hard on doing that, but said they couldn't find a way to do it without seeming "fanboyish."
DICK: But it would be as simple as taking the Enterprise to Veridian III and--
JANE: Massive fanboy.
DICK: Or have Kirk time travel to--
JANE: Fanboy.
DICK: Or Old Spock creates an alternate timeli--
JANE: Fanboy.
DICK: Or the Emissary resurrects--
JANE: Good Great Bird, no. Although you're not the first to suggest that, believe it or not.
DICK: But, in The Return--
JANE: Which may be the most fanboyish Trek novel ever written. Just my opinion.
DICK: Geez! Editorial comment much?
JANE: A bit. But it also makes my point that Trekkies' standards for fanboyishness are far, far lower than the general populations'. What you see as a perfectly reasonable plot idea the rest of the world sees as your mental masturbation. In the end, that just comes down to a matter of opinion, but, in this case, the showrunner of Star Trek has taken time out of his day to explain his opinion to the fandom. And that's something we haven't seen since Ronald D. Moore ran DS9. I think it's a directorial decision we can all respect--unless, of course, you're one of those people who gets his kicks by hating everything new in the Star Trek franchise until it becomes popular. And there are a lot of those, but usually they're not the ones arguing to include Shatner.
DICK: Well... look, Kirk and Spock had a bond deeper than brotherhood. They were friends beyond death. Spock would have found a way!
JANE: Nice quote.
DICK: Thanks. I try.
JANE: Look, you may be right. I think you are. Generations was probably an error, and I want to Kirk brought back, too. But cleaning up the past mistakes of our canon is not JJ Abrams' responsibility. He's just taken over the franchise with the sole objective of making it as wonderful and Gene-like as possible. What he isn't doing is creating Star Trek XI: The Search for Kirk. You are welcome to a differing opinion.
DICK: But it would be so easy!
JANE: Would it?
DICK: Of course! You could bring back Kirk with one line added to the script.
JANE: Really? Which line? And where would you put it?
DICK: Uh... what do you mean?
JANE: Haven't you read the script for Star Trek '08?
DICK: Um... how could I? It hasn't leaked.
JANE: Then where do you get off telling the writers how to improve it? Right now, there are five people in the world who have read it and who have the power to rewrite it. They're the only people qualified to make these decisions until December 25, 2008. And they're on strike.
DICK: Fracking strike.
JANE: Look, the strike really makes very little difference. They're scheduled to film until April, and they may go over. The odds of the strike lasting that long are roughly nil--so, in all probability, if they have a good idea for a change, they'll have a chance to make it and reshoot.
DICK: So Shatner might still be in the movie?
JANE: Look, if you want to hope for it, you're welcome to. But signs are pretty strong it won't be--and reposting half a dozen worn-out arguments on the topic in this forum isn't going to help your cause.
DICK: Fair enough. I'll refrain from posting new threads on the topics with rehashes of a topic that's been done to death. At most, I'll resurrect some of the old threads and hang out in them with other people who still think there's something to talk about. And I promise not to derail any threads that aren't about Shatner with crazed rants about how he needs to be in the movie/needs to stick his head in a pig ever, for any reason!
JANE: Good man. Turns out you're educable after all.
Part III: Some Objections
JANE: Oh. You're back.
DICK: Yeah, I was thinking--
JANE: Oh, Lords of Kobol. You were thinking.
DICK: Yeah, and it seems to me it would be really simple to bring back Kirk if they just--
JANE: I swear, Richard, if you suggest having Q do it, I'll go Klingon Rite of Vengeance on your posterior. Swear to Vaal.
DICK: No! Nothing like that!
JANE: Does it involve Dr. Giger from "In The Cards"?
DICK: No! Really, just let me--
JANE: [to self] ...actually, that wouldn't be such a bad idea. "Soulless demons of orthodoxy" killed Kirk... Let me write that down for SNW 11...
DICK: They cancelled SNW.
JANE: Did they? Damn. I'll just have to mention that fan fic idea in a random digression in a public thread and hope that someone with more spare time than I've got takes it and runs with it.
DICK: Yeah, anyway.
JANE: Right. Your idea. Go on.
DICK: Why not just drop Kirk into the movie? Without any explanation at all? Most people in the mainstream don't remember Kirk dying anyhow.
JANE: There are several problems with that. First: that's questionable. I think most people do know about Shatner's death. Second: JJ Abrams has promised to protect canon. That means the canon you personally like as well as the canon you don't like. It's pissed off the rebooters, but, then again, you're not a rebooter. If you were, you'd want to get as far away from Shatner as possible.
DICK: Hey, Rick Berman did it with Worf and Wesley in Nemesis?
JANE: Is Nemesis our guide to good movie-making? That said, the third problem: your idea doesn't solve the basic problem of getting Shatner in the movie without distracting from the theme of the film at large.
DICK: Hmm... you and your green-blooded Vulcan logic.
JANE: Thank you.
DICK: Okay, how about this one? Cast Shatner as Kirk's dad or something! It'd be great!
JANE: Perhaps. Unfortunately, Shatner has made it very clear that he is not interested in a cameo. He wants a significant role in the script, and he wants to be James T. Kirk.
DICK: So he's keeping himself out of the film?
JANE: In a sense, yes.
DICK: ...
JANE: ...
DICK: What now?
JANE: I'm not certain. I was planning to kill you off at the end of the FAQ, but I'm not sure if I'm going to have to edit this later to add new things.
DICK: Or the mods might delete you outright for creating a new Shatner thread. Spam rules and all.
JANE: True.
DICK: ...
JANE: Well, that kinda sucks, actually.
DICK: Are you about to blatantly rip off Steve Roby?
JANE: Yes.
DICK: Do you still feel Steve Roby is awesome?
JANE: Yes, but I think I've given him all the credit he needs by linking to his post.
DICK: But his Every Fan's Canon Primer is still more important than this?
JANE: Look, I think the EFCP is the greatest thing ever produced by this BBS. But--look. You asked me over here to talk about Bill Shatner and the new Star Trek movie. Can we get down to business?
DICK: Wasn't I supposed to be the one asking the questions?
JANE: *sigh*
Part I: The Premise
DICK: Okay, so let's just get clear what we're talking about. You say there's some kind of movie coming out?
JANE: Yep. Star Trek is coming out this December.
DICK: Nifty name.
JANE: I thought so.
DICK: Has a sort of a ring to it, you know?
JANE: *sigh*
DICK: So what era is it set in?
JANE: Original Series.
DICK: Really? Is the cast young enough to do that anymore? And aren't McCoy and Scotty dead?
JANE: Actually, it's a prequel. It takes place before the beginning of The Original Series. They've recast everyone, right down to Chekov. Chris Pine (from Just My Luck) is playing Kirk.
DICK: So, no Shatner?
JANE: No.
DICK: No Takei.
JANE: Odds are against it.
DICK: No Nichols.
JANE: Don't make me get out my steel-toed Doc Martens of Correction.
DICK: No Nimoy.
JANE: Actually...
Part II: It's Complicated
JANE: ...well, yes. Leonard Nimoy is in the movie. He is playing Old Spock, and apparently has a major role.
DICK: What? That's awesome!
JANE: Yes, it is. But he'll be sharing the screen with the new Young Spock, a fellow by the name of Zachary Quinto.
DICK: So you're saying that Nimoy has a big part in the new movie and not just a cameo to "hand on the torch"?
JANE: That is almost exactly what I said.
DICK: Neat. I'm curious, though... was Shatner unavailable?
JANE: Well... no, actually.
DICK: Then...
JANE: Why isn't he in the movie? Well, first off, we don't have a definitive yes-or-no answer on that. JJ Abrams, the director, has said that, if they can find a way to get him in the movie, absolutely, they will. They're all huge Shatner fans on the set.
DICK: Can you prove that?
JANE: No. But Abrams said it, and I don't see any reason to disbelieve him.
DICK: Well, he's not putting Shatner in the movie! Isn't that evidence enough?!
JANE: Shatner's Old Kirk character died. In Generations. Don't you read history?
DICK: So? JJ could bring him back.
JANE: Abrams has said he and his team have worked long and hard on doing that, but said they couldn't find a way to do it without seeming "fanboyish."
DICK: But it would be as simple as taking the Enterprise to Veridian III and--
JANE: Massive fanboy.
DICK: Or have Kirk time travel to--
JANE: Fanboy.
DICK: Or Old Spock creates an alternate timeli--
JANE: Fanboy.
DICK: Or the Emissary resurrects--
JANE: Good Great Bird, no. Although you're not the first to suggest that, believe it or not.
DICK: But, in The Return--
JANE: Which may be the most fanboyish Trek novel ever written. Just my opinion.
DICK: Geez! Editorial comment much?
JANE: A bit. But it also makes my point that Trekkies' standards for fanboyishness are far, far lower than the general populations'. What you see as a perfectly reasonable plot idea the rest of the world sees as your mental masturbation. In the end, that just comes down to a matter of opinion, but, in this case, the showrunner of Star Trek has taken time out of his day to explain his opinion to the fandom. And that's something we haven't seen since Ronald D. Moore ran DS9. I think it's a directorial decision we can all respect--unless, of course, you're one of those people who gets his kicks by hating everything new in the Star Trek franchise until it becomes popular. And there are a lot of those, but usually they're not the ones arguing to include Shatner.
DICK: Well... look, Kirk and Spock had a bond deeper than brotherhood. They were friends beyond death. Spock would have found a way!
JANE: Nice quote.
DICK: Thanks. I try.
JANE: Look, you may be right. I think you are. Generations was probably an error, and I want to Kirk brought back, too. But cleaning up the past mistakes of our canon is not JJ Abrams' responsibility. He's just taken over the franchise with the sole objective of making it as wonderful and Gene-like as possible. What he isn't doing is creating Star Trek XI: The Search for Kirk. You are welcome to a differing opinion.
DICK: But it would be so easy!
JANE: Would it?
DICK: Of course! You could bring back Kirk with one line added to the script.
JANE: Really? Which line? And where would you put it?
DICK: Uh... what do you mean?
JANE: Haven't you read the script for Star Trek '08?
DICK: Um... how could I? It hasn't leaked.
JANE: Then where do you get off telling the writers how to improve it? Right now, there are five people in the world who have read it and who have the power to rewrite it. They're the only people qualified to make these decisions until December 25, 2008. And they're on strike.
DICK: Fracking strike.
JANE: Look, the strike really makes very little difference. They're scheduled to film until April, and they may go over. The odds of the strike lasting that long are roughly nil--so, in all probability, if they have a good idea for a change, they'll have a chance to make it and reshoot.
DICK: So Shatner might still be in the movie?
JANE: Look, if you want to hope for it, you're welcome to. But signs are pretty strong it won't be--and reposting half a dozen worn-out arguments on the topic in this forum isn't going to help your cause.
DICK: Fair enough. I'll refrain from posting new threads on the topics with rehashes of a topic that's been done to death. At most, I'll resurrect some of the old threads and hang out in them with other people who still think there's something to talk about. And I promise not to derail any threads that aren't about Shatner with crazed rants about how he needs to be in the movie/needs to stick his head in a pig ever, for any reason!
JANE: Good man. Turns out you're educable after all.
Part III: Some Objections
JANE: Oh. You're back.
DICK: Yeah, I was thinking--
JANE: Oh, Lords of Kobol. You were thinking.
DICK: Yeah, and it seems to me it would be really simple to bring back Kirk if they just--
JANE: I swear, Richard, if you suggest having Q do it, I'll go Klingon Rite of Vengeance on your posterior. Swear to Vaal.
DICK: No! Nothing like that!
JANE: Does it involve Dr. Giger from "In The Cards"?
DICK: No! Really, just let me--
JANE: [to self] ...actually, that wouldn't be such a bad idea. "Soulless demons of orthodoxy" killed Kirk... Let me write that down for SNW 11...
DICK: They cancelled SNW.
JANE: Did they? Damn. I'll just have to mention that fan fic idea in a random digression in a public thread and hope that someone with more spare time than I've got takes it and runs with it.
DICK: Yeah, anyway.
JANE: Right. Your idea. Go on.
DICK: Why not just drop Kirk into the movie? Without any explanation at all? Most people in the mainstream don't remember Kirk dying anyhow.
JANE: There are several problems with that. First: that's questionable. I think most people do know about Shatner's death. Second: JJ Abrams has promised to protect canon. That means the canon you personally like as well as the canon you don't like. It's pissed off the rebooters, but, then again, you're not a rebooter. If you were, you'd want to get as far away from Shatner as possible.
DICK: Hey, Rick Berman did it with Worf and Wesley in Nemesis?
JANE: Is Nemesis our guide to good movie-making? That said, the third problem: your idea doesn't solve the basic problem of getting Shatner in the movie without distracting from the theme of the film at large.
DICK: Hmm... you and your green-blooded Vulcan logic.
JANE: Thank you.
DICK: Okay, how about this one? Cast Shatner as Kirk's dad or something! It'd be great!
JANE: Perhaps. Unfortunately, Shatner has made it very clear that he is not interested in a cameo. He wants a significant role in the script, and he wants to be James T. Kirk.
DICK: So he's keeping himself out of the film?
JANE: In a sense, yes.
DICK: ...
JANE: ...
DICK: What now?
JANE: I'm not certain. I was planning to kill you off at the end of the FAQ, but I'm not sure if I'm going to have to edit this later to add new things.
DICK: Or the mods might delete you outright for creating a new Shatner thread. Spam rules and all.
JANE: True.
DICK: ...
JANE: Well, that kinda sucks, actually.
