I was lucky enough to catch a 70mm film print with extra footage solely available in that format (not available for home release according to Tarantino). Loved it.
Will you go see the new Quentin Tarantino film?
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Ah, the road show version... Nice.
Yep. I’m hoping a 10 year anniversary version will be available for home release. Meanwhile, I’ve made do with the regular version.
Yeah, there are three or four things in the movie that are there, as far as plot goes, to establish Cliff's temperament and abilities prior to his actions at the climax: the act that he's alleged to have committed in the past, the sequence of him climbing onto Rick's roof (and getting his shirt off to flex a bit), the flashback to Bruce Lee, and his take-down of the guy at Spahn's Ranch.
Then if that's the case, it's rubbish, and it doesn't even clearly present itself that way, because he is shown actively thinking about it, instead of it being presented as an actual event.
Because it's him thinking about it, the natural take for the viewer, who knew anything about Bruce Lee, would be that it's the distorted perspective of a guy who isn't remembering accurately, which is what Cliff ends up looking like... Some guy who imagines that he's somehow better at fighting than Bruce Lee, instead of it being definitive. As a result, he doesn't come off as strong, just full of himself, & probably deluded. I mean the only people he really puts down in the movie otherwise (Meaning not filtered through his own imagination) are a worthless hippie & a couple hippie girls... & probably his dead wife
Why would he even need to mull over the reason why that crew wouldn't want him around? It would be obvious that if he had really kicked Bruce Lee's ass, & damaged property on a set, he'd never get work. There'd be nothing to ruminate over, unless he's fucking dense lol. This is why I was led to believe we might actually be seeing him play out a scenario in his head, where he might get himself in trouble working there
If that scene is supposed to have actually happened, then the movie looses even more points in my book for being total nonsense. There's like half a dozen reasons why the real Bruce Lee would never even find himself in that situation at all. He didn't challenge people to random fights. He might have made claims about his techniques, directed at other marital arts experts, but he didn't brag to random people at work about his skills, and he'd never get in a scrap at work, simply because some guy mouthed off at him. Bruce walked away from guys like that constantly.
Plus, that big kick of his was not a technique he employed in real situations like that. It was a power display, & it was mostly meant for movie stunts. There is nothing of Bruce Lee in that depiction except a decent imitation of his voice. It comes off more as someone thinking Bruce is like the characters he plays in his movies, which is why it seemed imaginary
I just want to clarify: Cliff didn’t kick Bruce Lee’s ass. That fight was interrupted only when it got more interesting. The whole point is to show that if Cliff could hold his own against a legend like Bruce Lee, then a bunch of stoned hippies would never stand a chance.
He smashed him into a car, with emphasis on the fact that Bruce's "Signature" move was, as Cliff had claimed, nonsense in a practical fight. He may not have beat Bruce up, but it was more than just a show of strength scene for Cliff. He showed him up by dropping him spectacularly, and proving him wrong in their argument, like Bruce was a bully needing to be taught a lesson
Do I think someone could hold their own against Bruce? Sure, & I'd be ok with someone inventing a character to do that. Do I think some guy making the claims Cliff was making could prove himself right against Bruce? Shit no. Bruce ain't nowhere near as stupid as this shows him to be
Do I think someone could hold their own against Bruce? Sure, & I'd be ok with someone inventing a character to do that. Do I think some guy making the claims Cliff was making could prove himself right against Bruce? Shit no. Bruce ain't nowhere near as stupid as this shows him to be
And what happened after the car smash? Bruce got back on his feet, brushing it off like it was nothing.
Yeah, but the lesson was still played out in Cliff's favor. Cliff's "Practical" fighting bested Bruce's martial artistry, that he was unrealistically bragging about. The scene plays more like it's proving Cliff right than proving him strong or capable
If that’s how you want to view it, fine.
You're entirely mistaken.
A flashback in fiction is properly understood as a character remembering a previous event.
Yeah, there are writers who do it wrong, or break with the convention for narrative effect. There's nothing in OUATINH that even hints at that. It's unambiguously a memory of something that happened to Cliff.
It was entirely clear to me while first watching it that this was a memory; Tarantino is in command of film vocabulary.
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I read that Tarantino regarded Rick Dalton in THE GREAT ESCAPE clip as him fantasizing, which I kinda wish he didn't say. Not because of potentially muddling Cliff's remembrance, but rather I like the idea that Rick actually did shoot scenes for the film, yet early in production he got the Eric Stoltz treatment. That would make his line "I never had a chance" even more sad as he doesn't even want to acknowledge how close he was to it because of his failure as a movie star.
Right. So it's not like I'm out of left field here, suggesting that some of the scenes depicted could've been imaginary. There's mixed messages here. I'm not even really sure htf I'm supposed to take the wife boat scene
It’s planted there to make you question what’s up with Cliff.
It's also Cliff's memory, but while the implication is that he killed his wife it's open ended because the act isn't shown.
He pretty much killed his wife.
I really enjoyed it, but man it's problematic. Too long and self indulgent yes, though oddly that's endearing. DiCaprio and Pitt are so damn endearing it's no chore to watch them tootle around LA. Doesn't really have a plot and whereas in most films the idea is to have characters change and grow this is kinda the reverse, rather than move on from his early success the film ends with Dalton (potentially) reclaiming that kudos.
The main things that drag it down for me are:
The main things that drag it down for me are:
[*]Bruce Lee, man whatever Quentin wanted to do with that scene doesn't matter, he made the one non white character in the film (and a real person) look like an arrogant arsehole.
[*]Changing history (though actually this didn't bother me as much as I thought it would, but still feeds into the self indulgent fan fiction element.)
[*]The portrayal of women. Robbie is great, but Tate is little more than a cipher. Every other woman is either a psychopath, or a nagging wife straight out of central casting. The only exception is the precocious child actress, but even she is only there to flatter Dalton's ego. The violence bothered me too, I mean it's highly graphic when meted out to the female Manson members, yet Tex's demise seems far more oblique. I know this is QT's signature, just wish it'd been a little more equal.
[*]Cliff's history. I'm sorry but I don't get why Tarantino did this. The crux of the film seems to be: middle aged white man who had his Hollywood career derailed due to allegations of violence against women saves the day by, er, committing actions of violence against women?? Given #metoo, and coming from a director who was one of many to turn a blind eye to Weinstein that seems tone deaf--the fact that Cliff's wife was played by Rebecca Gayheart (an actor whose career was derailed after a vehicular manslaughter charge) really does make it seem like QT is trolling!
Concerning the violence supposedly more gruesome on women than men, Tex’s balls are getting chomped by a dog with a heavy emphasis on sound before Tex ends up curb stomping him. I do think these days people tend to look at that as something more cartoonish than horribly violent, but QT has always featured and viewed emasculation as possibly being the worst thing that can happen to a man, whether it’s Django being threatened to have them snipped off as he’s being dangled upside down naked or all the various characters getting shot directly in the crotch before they’re either captured or killed.
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