Will Trek XI repel old fans?

[bintak]

I just... like all Trek

Just like every one of us. We just don't have the same definition of what "all Trek" is!

Star Trek
Star Trek: The Animated Series
Star Trek: The Next Generation
Star Trek: Deep Space Nine
Star Trek: Voyager
Star Trek: Enterprise

Star Trek The Motion Picture
Star Trek II: The Wrath of Kahn
Star Trek III: The Search For Spock
Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home
Star Trek V: The Final Frontier
Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country
Star Trek: Generations
Star Trek: First Contact
Star Trek: Insurrection
Star Trek: Nemesis
Star Trek
Star Trek
Star Trek: The Animated Series
Star Trek: The Next Generation
Star Trek: Deep Space Nine
Star Trek: Voyager
Star Trek: Enterprise

Star Trek The Motion Picture
Star Trek II: The Wrath of Kahn
Star Trek III: The Search For Spock
Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home
Star Trek V: The Final Frontier
Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country
Star Trek: Generations
Star Trek: First Contact
Star Trek: Insurrection
Star Trek: Nemesis
Star Trek

Also known as... all of Star Trek.

It's just more fun this way.

Star Trek Loved it,
Star Trek: The Animated Series Liked it.
Star Trek: The Next Generation HATED IT.
Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Loved it.
Star Trek: Voyager Enjoyed its high moments and tolerated the rest of it.
Star Trek: Enterprise Disappointed me.

Star Trek The Motion Picture Boring.
Star Trek II: The Wrath of Kahn Loved it.
Star Trek III: The Search For Spock Okay
Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home Ridiculous.
Star Trek V: The Final Frontier Ridiculous.
Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country Outstanding.
Star Trek: Generations Ridiculous.
Star Trek: First Contact More or less tolerable, when Patrick Stewart wasn't on screen.
Star Trek: Insurrection Ridiculous
Star Trek: Nemesis Simply awful
Star Trek XI? No opinion. Haven't seen it yet.^1

Star Trek has its ups and downs. Even ST/TNG (Yesterday's Enterprise) had its moments. Its a matter of personal taste for me.

I just dislike Picard and Crew because they are so bloody awful at their jobs as the characters are written, filmed and as I saw the actors act it out on screen.

You have to see it before you can even begin to like or dislike it.

Most of Trek is fair to excellent. I just happen to hate Star Trek the Next Generation, because I saw it, and disliked cast, stories (Skin Of Evil, the worst hatchet job story ever filmed to destroy an actor, Denise Cosby, on film), most of the writers who trained on it (Ron Moore in particular), the actors, (Patrick Stewart in particular) but then it is a matter of personal taste. I like competent heroes.

Whatever else you may write about Avery Brooks and his fellow actors as well as most of the writers of DS-9, they put on a good show. Example: Michael Dorn was a better Worf as acted on DS-9 than he ever was on ST/TNG. He was written as more competent as a character. Made for a more enjoyable Trek for me to not see him portrayed as a buffoon but as a serious officer doing his job.

Will Star Trek XI give us competence or incompetence? Wait and SEE.

 

[Qonos]

Also known as... all of Star Trek.

Not even close! Where are the novels? The comics? The games?

The Novels the Comics and the Games, even the Animated series isn't supposed to be canon, according to the Great Creator Gene Roddenberry. None of it is ever referanced in Television Trek Canon, but hey I'm also a TF fan and they constantly argue with what Generation 1 Transformers is...

 

[slappy]

Some fans need to be repelled.

Take The God Thing. God bless him, if you're in charge of the Trek franchise, he's your enemy. There's truly no other way to look at it. He's said outright that he will not reconcile new Trek with old Trek. He's upfront about that so if you're not an asset, you're a liability.

 

[Qonos]

[

You have to see it before you can even begin to like or dislike it.

Most of Trek is fair to excellent. I just happen to hate Star Trek the Next Generation, because I saw it, and disliked cast, stories (Skin Of Evil, the worst hatchet job story ever filmed to destroy an actor, Denise Cosby, on film), most of the writers who trained on it (Ron Moore in particular), the actors, (Patrick Stewart in particular) but then it is a matter of personal taste. I like competent heroes.

Whatever else you may write about Avery Brooks and his fellow actors as well as most of the writers of DS-9, they put on a good show. Example: Michael Dorn was a better Worf as acted on DS-9 than he ever was on ST/TNG. He was written as more competent as a character. Made for a more enjoyable Trek for me to not see him portrayed as a buffoon but as a serious officer doing his job.

Will Star Trek XI give us competence or incompetence? Wait and SEE.

You see this is where I disagree. Star Trek TNG had numerous awards for it's writing and it's acting. Stewart, like Shatner was a classically trained Shakespearian actor and he's done well in several movies, voice work, his own one man version of the Christmas Carol (which did quite well) so I don't see where you see the crew of the Enterprise being incompetent, seeing as the federation was never destroyed on there watch although it came close to several times. The stories were written following the optimistic future formula that Gene loved, and in the 90's most people were getting Jaded. Maybe the stories weren't your cup of tea. And Skin of Evil was done mainly because Denise Crosby wanted out. Notice you hate the episode where she exited, and the episode where she returned you mark as one of the best they did. Both were done to let her leave, and bring her back because she originally got tired of trek and said she was never going to return, then she missed doing Trek and when they asked her if Tasha could do "one More" She said yes. Then she played her daughter as a reoccuring villian. The writing was 90's tv. Not the best writing, hell it wasn't up to B5's standards, but who wants to have to watch every episode of a show to find out why the Mimbari ended the Earth/Mimbar war.

But I'm if TNG wasn't your cup of tea (earl grey hot, of course) that's fine. As you pointed out there is myriad series to watch, I still want to punch Berman directly in the face for Voyager and Enterprise. Poor Manny Cotto never had a chance to save Enterprise. The Cotto helmed Enterprise was enjoyable, while the Berman helmed one sucked badly

 

[Captain Robert April]

TAS was excluded, for a time, for legal reasons, stemming from the shutdown of Filmation and the resolution of all those licensed properties they had in their stable. It wasn't because Roddenberry had something against TAS, it was just safer to put it off limits until the lawyers each got their pound of flesh.Once those legal matters were resolved, plenty of TAS references started sneaking in, particularly on DS9 and Enterprise. So, yeah, TAS is back in the canon.

 

[3D Master]

Star Trek - Love it!
Star Trek: The Animated Series - Love it!
Star Trek: The Next Generation - Love it!
Star Trek: Deep Space Nine - LOVE IT!
Star Trek: Voyager - Meh. There are quite a few good episodes, but only if you forget the ship is stranded in the Delta Quadrant. Treat it as the Enterprise exploring just beyond the Federation and it's good. It squandered their amazing premise in the pilot, and the rest in the three to four episodes after that. This should have been Farscape in tone, minus the irreverent humor.
Star Trek: Enterprise - HORRIBLE! Again, such an amazing premise, and what came out was utter crap.

Star Trek: The Motion Picture - Fantastic! Especially the DE.
Star Trek II: The Wrath of Kahn - Awesome!
Star Trek III: The Search For Spock - A little dull, it's okay, but...
Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home - Great work! Lots of fun!
Star Trek V: The Final Frontier - Not so good.
Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country - Fantastic again.
Star Trek: Generations - Good stuff, nothing truly magnificent.
Star Trek: First Contact - Awesome! The best of the lot!
Star Trek: Insurrection - It was okay, but too limited, and severely lacking in the Dominion War department. Using that background to the fullest, this could have been a fantastic film, a lot less "sweet, nothing going on here but a good romp", a bit darker.
Star Trek: Nemesis - Horrific! Horrigble! Utter crap! Plotholes, weak rewrite of STII, completely ridiculous from beginning to end.

Star Trek XI: Hoping for the best, expecting the worst. I'm both excited and extremely fearful.

 

[Qonos]

TAS was excluded, for a time, for legal reasons, stemming from the shutdown of Filmation and the resolution of all those licensed properties they had in their stable. It wasn't because Roddenberry had something against TAS, it was just safer to put it off limits until the lawyers each got their pound of flesh.Once those legal matters were resolved, plenty of TAS references started sneaking in, particularly on DS9 and Enterprise. So, yeah, TAS is back in the canon.

I must have missed the referances in DS9..

Didn't bother with the Berman self hand job that was Enterprise....

 

[bintak]

You see this is where I disagree. Star Trek TNG had numerous awards for it's writing and it's acting. Stewart, like Shatner was a classically trained Shakespearian actor and he's done well in several movies, voice work, his own one man version of the Christmas Carol (which did quite well) so I don't see where you see the crew of the Enterprise being incompetent, seeing as the federation was never destroyed on there watch although it came close to several times. The stories were written following the optimistic future formula that Gene loved, and in the 90's most people were getting Jaded. Maybe the stories weren't your cup of tea. And Skin of Evil was done mainly because Denise Crosby wanted out. Notice you hate the episode where she exited, and the episode where she returned you mark as one of the best they did. Both were done to let her leave, and bring her back because she originally got tired of trek and said she was never going to return, then she missed doing Trek and when they asked her if Tasha could do "one More" She said yes. Then she played her daughter as a reoccuring villian. The writing was 90's tv. Not the best writing, hell it wasn't up to B5's standards, but who wants to have to watch every episode of a show to find out why the Mimbari ended the Earth/Mimbar war.

But I'm if TNG wasn't your cup of tea (earl grey hot, of course) that's fine. As you pointed out there is myriad series to watch, I still want to punch Berman directly in the face for Voyager and Enterprise. Poor Manny Cotto never had a chance to save Enterprise. The Cotto helmed Enterprise was enjoyable, while the Berman helmed one sucked badly

I agree, that if you like ST/TNG, you can cite the awards it won and say that Stewart is a classically trained actor. I agree that you pointed out that the two episodes that stood out to me did feature Denise Crosby. Coincidence? Not very likely as she was one of the very few good things of this execrable to me series that stood out. It was and is a matter of personal taste.

On one thing we both can agree, Rick Berman. Rick Berman mentored Ron Moore. You can metaphorically punch Rick Berman in the face for giving us Enterprise, if I get to punch him metaphorically again for giving us the Moore, Ron.

 

[Qonos]

You see this is where I disagree. Star Trek TNG had numerous awards for it's writing and it's acting. Stewart, like Shatner was a classically trained Shakespearian actor and he's done well in several movies, voice work, his own one man version of the Christmas Carol (which did quite well) so I don't see where you see the crew of the Enterprise being incompetent, seeing as the federation was never destroyed on there watch although it came close to several times. The stories were written following the optimistic future formula that Gene loved, and in the 90's most people were getting Jaded. Maybe the stories weren't your cup of tea. And Skin of Evil was done mainly because Denise Crosby wanted out. Notice you hate the episode where she exited, and the episode where she returned you mark as one of the best they did. Both were done to let her leave, and bring her back because she originally got tired of trek and said she was never going to return, then she missed doing Trek and when they asked her if Tasha could do "one More" She said yes. Then she played her daughter as a reoccuring villian. The writing was 90's tv. Not the best writing, hell it wasn't up to B5's standards, but who wants to have to watch every episode of a show to find out why the Mimbari ended the Earth/Mimbar war.

But I'm if TNG wasn't your cup of tea (earl grey hot, of course) that's fine. As you pointed out there is myriad series to watch, I still want to punch Berman directly in the face for Voyager and Enterprise. Poor Manny Cotto never had a chance to save Enterprise. The Cotto helmed Enterprise was enjoyable, while the Berman helmed one sucked badly

I agree, that if you like ST/TNG, you can cite the awards it won and say that Stewart is a classically trained actor. I agree that you pointed out that the two episodes that stood out to me did feature Denise Crosby. Coincidence? Not very likely as she was one of the very few good things of this execrable to me series that stood out. It was and is a matter of personal taste.

On one thing we both can agree, Rick Berman. Rick Berman mentored Ron Moore. You can metaphorically punch Rick Berman in the face for giving us Enterprise, if I get to punch him metaphorically again for giving us the Moore, Ron.

To Quote Roger Smith from Big O. WE HAVE COME TO TERMS...

Oh that would be a nifty Live action Movie.. BIG O

 

[Captain Robert April]

Star Trek - Love it!

It's the foundation upon which everything else that bears the name is based. Pull out this thread, and you unravel the entire tapestry.

Star Trek: The Animated Series - Love it!

Since I was two and a half when Star Trek premiered and not quite five when the last episode aired in first run, I've always been aware of Star Trek and enthusiastic about it, but TAS was the first incarnation I was able to watch. A year or so later when TOS started the big push in syndication, I was excited because I was finally gonna be able to see the original. I consider myself especially fortunate in that Channel 4 didn't make any cuts for more commercials. We got the whole episodes.

Star Trek: The Next Generation - Love it!

I had no problem with TNG, for one key reason: Gene Roddenberry was behind it, and he'd brought back a lot of the old behind-the-scenes crew to help. Note that the end of the opening credits don't read "Based on Star Trek, Created by Gene Roddenberry", they read "Created by Gene Roddenberry". When it's the man's own creation, I give a lot of leeway. Same reason I don't have a big problem with the Star Wars prequels; these were George Lucas' babies. There is no right or wrong on this front, just like it or don't like it.

Star Trek: Deep Space Nine - LOVE IT!

Written, produced, and performed by folks who truly got it. Despite what I said above about TNG, DS9 is the true successor to TOS, in that they took on much more substantial storylines, much deeper character development....it was just an all-around better show.

Star Trek: Voyager - Meh. There are quite a few good episodes, but only if you forget the ship is stranded in the Delta Quadrant. Treat it as the Enterprise exploring just beyond the Federation and it's good. It squandered their amazing premise in the pilot, and the rest in the three to four episodes after that. This should have been Farscape in tone, minus the irreverent humor.

Frankly, the irreverent humor would've been good, too.

Star Trek: Enterprise - HORRIBLE! Again, such an amazing premise, and what came out was utter crap.

Although the fourth season showed what could've been....

Star Trek: The Motion Picture - Fantastic! Especially the DE.

No argument there.

Star Trek II: The Wrath of Kahn - Awesome!

A good popcorn movie, but it hasn't aged well.

Star Trek III: The Search For Spock - A little dull, it's okay, but...

My only big complaint is that it was so damn short. Only around 90 minutes.

Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home - Great work! Lots of fun!

And it didn't rewrite Star Trek history in order to reach a mass audience. Interesting....

Star Trek V: The Final Frontier - Not so good.

Should've gone with the fountain of youth storyline.

Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country - Fantastic again.

Wrapped things up nicely, just a few characterization quibbles.

Star Trek: Generations - Good stuff, nothing truly magnificent.

Here's where I differ. I consider Generations to be an utter abomination and needs to be undone at the earliest opportunity.

Star Trek: First Contact - Awesome! The best of the lot!

Again, good popcorn movie, holds up okay.

Star Trek: Insurrection - It was okay, but too limited, and severely lacking in the Dominion War department. Using that background to the fullest, this could have been a fantastic film, a lot less "sweet, nothing going on here but a good romp", a bit darker.

I consider this one to be the best Star Trek story of the bunch, although whether or not the story was big enough to justify a feature film is still open to debate.

Star Trek: Nemesis - Horrific! Horrigble! Utter crap! Plotholes, weak rewrite of STII, completely ridiculous from beginning to end.

I don't hold John Logan all that responsible for this mess, I hold Berman and his merry band of meddlers that felt the need to throw in their two strips of latinum and the utter incompetence of Stuart Baird to blame for this insult to the franchise.

Star Trek XI: Hoping for the best, expecting the worst. I'm both excited and extremely fearful.

This'll have to have the mother of all reset buttons smashed to reconcile this mess.

 

[Qonos]

Star Trek XI: Hoping for the best, expecting the worst. I'm both excited and extremely fearful.

This'll have to have the mother of all reset buttons smashed to reconcile this mess.

So you have already SEEN the film from beginning to end and know exactly what the story is. You really need to stop with the complaining.. UNTIL you see the movie. After that everything is fair game.

The main point is all you know is some worst case senerio someone who hasn't written the story came up with on TrekMovie.com. You have no clue what the real story is for the movie and your just flapping your gums with suppositions. I won't mind you bitching once you've seen the movie, it's just this Pre-menstural syndrom people get before they know what is going on that bugs me.

 

[archeryguy1701]

I had no problem with TNG, for one key reason: Gene Roddenberry was behind it, and he'd brought back a lot of the old behind-the-scenes crew to help. Note that the end of the opening credits don't read "Based on Star Trek, Created by Gene Roddenberry", they read "Created by Gene Roddenberry". When it's the man's own creation, I give a lot of leeway. Same reason I don't have a big problem with the Star Wars prequels; these were George Lucas' babies. There is no right or wrong on this front, just like it or don't like it.

What I'm getting out of this paragraph is, "It's not what the changes are that matters, it's who made those changes." Am I reading that anywhere near correctly?

Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home - Great work! Lots of fun!

And it didn't rewrite Star Trek history in order to reach a mass audience. Interesting....

Funny you should say that, in almost everything we have heard/ read/ etc, the writers and director have been saying that they are pretty strictly adhering to canon, they are just filling in a gap in the story that hasn't been covered. So, unless a redesigned bridge is what you're referring to (damn them for not wanting to design the bridge like they did in the '60s!), I'm not sure what history is being rewritten.

Star Trek XI: Hoping for the best, expecting the worst. I'm both excited and extremely fearful.

This'll have to have the mother of all reset buttons smashed to reconcile this mess.

Again, either the new bridge has you really upset, or you seem to have more information than we do. I don't suppose you feel like posting any spoilers, would you? Please?

 

[bintak]

To Quote Roger Smith from Big O. WE HAVE COME TO TERMS...

Oh that would be a nifty Live action Movie.. BIG O

Entirely off topic just for this one post.......I watched Big O and thoroughly enjoyed it. For some weird reason it reminded me of Patrick McGoohan's The Prisoner. I don't know exactly why, unless it was that anti-authority and loss of memories kick to the central storylines.......

 

[Red Ranger]

No, you're all missing the REAL truth! Some fans themselves are repellant, so naturally, they'll be repelled by the new flick! They have no other choice! -- RR

 

[JuanBolio]

Billy Dee Williams is BLACK?

Should I have said African American? Sorry.

No, I was feigning ignorance of that fact for humorous effect. "Black" works fine for me.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I must have missed the referances in DS9.

TAS references in DS9 included the IKS Klothos, Edosian orchids, USS ShirKahr (misspelled) and Vulcan's Forge.

 

[Therin of Andor]

My only big complaint is that it was so damn short. Only around 90 minutes.

101 mins. (ST V was 102.)

the utter incompetence of Stuart Baird to blame for this insult to the franchise.

I agree that other directors may have achieved a more emotional ride out of Data's demise. My favourite character passing should have had me sobbing.

 

[CommanderRaytas]

No, you're all missing the REAL truth! Some fans themselves are repellant, so naturally, they'll be repelled by the new flick! They have no other choice! -- RR

Star Trek repellant as opposed to insect repellant?

That would explain a lot.

 

[ST-One]

I agree that other directors may have achieved a more emotional ride out of Data's demise. My favourite character passing should have had me sobbing.

It really wasn't a 'demise' (at least from Data's persective).
Data finally found what he was looking for for all these years: humanity. He gave his 'life' to save Picard, his friend. It certainly wasn't a rational decision, or a logical one.

 

[Therin of Andor]

It really wasn't a 'demise' (at least from Data's persective).
Data finally found what he was looking for for all these years: humanity. He gave his 'life' to save Picard, his friend. It certainly wasn't a rational decision, or a logical one.

No problem there, but I shed a tear for Spock, Yar, Jadzia - and even Bareil. I had a huge lump in my throat during the flashback sequences in "What You Leave Behind"...

Data was my favourite ST character and I feel that the director of "Nemesis" missed the boat in milking some audienceemotion from Data's decision.

I think John Logan and Brent Spiner had put enough into the script, but the dropping of the early "toast" scene between Data and Picard (see DVD bonus scenes) didn't help, and might have helped round out the balance.