Will TOS maintain its legendary status as Trek fandom gets younger?

[JamesRye]

TOS and TNG will both maintain their legendary status IMHO. The reason is that they are Shakespearean. Both series are presented very theatrically - the acting is often broad and dialog is clearly enunciated. Many of the stories are updated versons of Shakespeare plays and the characters regularly quote dialog from the bard.

Shakespeare is timeless and universal - the works are over 400 years old, so TOS and TNG should both be relatable for a while yet!

 

[Weyoun 251]

TOS and TNG will both maintain their legendary status IMHO. The reason is that they are Shakespearean. Both series are presented very theatrically - the acting is often broad and dialog is clearly enunciated. Many of the stories are updated versons of Shakespeare plays and the characters regularly quote dialog from the bard.

Shakespeare is timeless and universal - the works are over 400 years old, so TOS and TNG should both be relatable for a while yet!

I'd agree for TOS but whilst you are right that TNG is Shakespearian I think it suffers for looking too modern to pull it off.

TOS looks like it is on stage, TNG sets generally, to me at least, look too up to date to sell the Shakespeare style

 

[E-DUB]

I remember once hearing a younger person say to a friend: "Did you know that Paul McCartney was in a band before 'Wings'?" There will be "super fan" types who will dig back into the original series, but they'll be the minority.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

New generations discover the classics; just as in the McCartney reference, innumerable people who were not alive even as the Beatles broke up have discovered their music, bought their albums on various formats and were--more than likely--among those who watched Jackson's making-of documentary. TOS has been experiencing the same kind of constant, cross generation appeal for more than 50 years (i.e., post-NBC), and has been ingrained in the culture ever since, with no other ST production coming within a universe of being the franchise face, the leader in merchandising or media presence.

When one looks at TNG (the most successful post-TOS ST production) one sees a series never attaining a similar, TOS- level of cultural awareness / impact, despite the fact its nearly four decades old. That says much about what is not appealing to younger generations. There's a quality and class difference across the board.

 

[Paul755]

Not to mention…like McCartney, Shatner seems like he will live forever to remind people.

 

[Captain Zog]

I guess what prompted this was a thread on another site (with a younger demographic) asking about the best seasons of Trek. By and large, most fans didn't mention TOS. That got me wondering: are younger fans watching TOS? Do they not like what they've seen? Is this a situation that'll get worse as time goes by?

I am not a younger fan (I'm almost 39) but I am of a generation that grew up watching TNG as opposed to TOS and for me TNG was the definitive Star Trek series for many years. Indeed, it was only through the movies that I got into TOS in the first place. TOS laid the foundation for all that came before it but it's very much a product of the 60s and can be difficult for someone who wasn't around at the time or who didn't grow up watching it to connect with. The Kelvinverse movies may have revived public awareness of the characters but they have a very different vibe and emphasis than TOS itself.

 

[Captain Zog]

New generations discover the classics; just as in the McCartney reference, innumerable people who were not alive even as the Beatles broke up have discovered their music, bought their albums on various formats and were--more than likely--among those who watched Jackson's making-of documentary. TOS has been experiencing the same kind of constant, cross generation appeal for more than 50 years (i.e., post-NBC), and has been ingrained in the culture ever since, with no other ST production coming within a universe of being the franchise face, the leader in merchandising or media presence.

When one looks at TNG (the most successful post-TOS ST production) one sees a series never attaining a similar, TOS- level of cultural awareness / impact, despite the fact its nearly four decades old. That says much about what is not appealing to younger generations. There's a quality and class difference across the board.

I would agree to the extent that the cast are still pop culture icons but how popular is the TV show itself among younger viewers? I would consider later incarnations of Trek to be more accessible to the modern viewer, i.e. Strange New Worlds.

Are you claiming TOS is of a superior quality to TNG? Because I would feel the need to dispute that claim.

 

[Captain Zog]

Some of those episodes still have bite. I think “Balance of Terror” or “The Devil in the Dark” still work as great episodes of TV.

I mean there have been multiple attempts to redo “The Twilight Zone” for modern audiences, but the original series with Rod Serling remains the gold standard and those episodes still work almost a century after they were produced.

The Twilight Zone is in a league of its own. One of the few shows from that far back that genuinely still holds up, old-fashioned though it may be.

 

[Captain Zog]

TOS can be hard to watch sometimes. There’s some very outdated tropes of both racial and sexist in type, the dialogue is disjointed and contradictory, etc.

Even now I go back and rewatch only specific episodes, some are just really too much, like “Piece of the Action”

they were meant for a 60’s audience and often they had to use common sets and props, so the story quality is weak.

Realistically out of 79 episodes only about 25% are genuinely good

True. I've long regarded the TOS movies as the superior product. A follow-up to the TV show with all of the bugs ironed out. That isn't to say the show doesn't have its fair share of enjoyable episodes but it can get very silly at times.

 

[Captain Zog]

I know I have a bias, but I think the 87-2005 stuff has aged worse than TOS.

With the exception of the first two seasons of TNG - which I personally love but which scream 80s - I don't think the Berman era stuff has aged much at all. Oh, the effects aren't all super elaborate and fancy like what you get in Discovery or the Kelvinverse movies but all of those older shows feel properly immersive to me anyway. Watching TOS feels more like watching a stage play by comparison. A good stage play, but a stage play nonetheless. And its treatment of female characters is...of its time, shall we say.

 

[Captain Zog]

I did (nearly) complete watches of Star Trek with both my kids: TNG, DS9, VOY, and ENT.

Both declined to watch any TOS.

So I’d say “no”.

Understandable. I didn't care for TOS as a child. And this was 30 years ago now and in spite of being a big TNG fan. I came to appreciate the show in my 20s, when I became more accepting of the limitations imposed by its budget and time of production. Perhaps your kids will embrace the show in years to come. You should show them the TOS movies if you haven't done so yet. They're much more in line with the TNG aesthetic.

 

[Lord Garth]

TOS - I revisit some of it every year. Over time, it adds up to a full re-watch.
TNG - I lost interest in it by 2000. Picard revived my interest after 20 years.
DS9 - I lost a lot of interest in it, once it ended in 1999. Since then, I think it's gone from underrated to overrated.
VOY - I stopped watching it in 1999, went back to it in 2008 and finished the series, and revisited some episodes later.
ENT - I was never a fan of it to begin with.

So, basically, I lost interest in Berman Trek right around the Turn of the Millennium, and found my way back to some of it much later. Whereas I never lost interest in TOS.

How things bear out with me for DSC and PIC, we'll find out soon.

 

[Jayson1]

If people can't at the very least appreciate TOS in the future it will only be because society has collapsed and humanity has lost all attention span and the ability to properly process history. It's like asking if Shakespeare or the Beatles or James Baldwin etc are to dated to enjoy.

Of course TOS is very dated in many ways but that is true of all art, even great art. It was all made in a distant time in which many new viewers never lived through. Art and TOS is great in part because it becomes dated.

On one hand it has a universal aspect to it that is timeless because it had many things to say about the human condition but it also represents a kind of time travel to the past in that it allows you to see how 60's people looked at those, human condition issues.

 

[The Wormhole]

I am not a younger fan (I'm almost 39) but I am of a generation that grew up watching TNG as opposed to TOS and for me TNG was the definitive Star Trek series for many years. Indeed, it was only through the movies that I got into TOS in the first place. TOS laid the foundation for all that came before it but it's very much a product of the 60s and can be difficult for someone who wasn't around at the time or who didn't grow up watching it to connect with. The Kelvinverse movies may have revived public awareness of the characters but they have a very different vibe and emphasis than TOS itself.

I would agree to the extent that the cast are still pop culture icons but how popular is the TV show itself among younger viewers? I would consider later incarnations of Trek to be more accessible to the modern viewer, i.e. Strange New Worlds.

Are you claiming TOS is of a superior quality to TNG? Because I would feel the need to dispute that claim.

The Twilight Zone is in a league of its own. One of the few shows from that far back that genuinely still holds up, old-fashioned though it may be.

True. I've long regarded the TOS movies as the superior product. A follow-up to the TV show with all of the bugs ironed out. That isn't to say the show doesn't have its fair share of enjoyable episodes but it can get very silly at times.

With the exception of the first two seasons of TNG - which I personally love but which scream 80s - I don't think the Berman era stuff has aged much at all. Oh, the effects aren't all super elaborate and fancy like what you get in Discovery or the Kelvinverse movies but all of those older shows feel properly immersive to me anyway. Watching TOS feels more like watching a stage play by comparison. A good stage play, but a stage play nonetheless. And its treatment of female characters is...of its time, shall we say.

Understandable. I didn't care for TOS as a child. And this was 30 years ago now and in spite of being a big TNG fan. I came to appreciate the show in my 20s, when I became more accepting of the limitations imposed by its budget and time of production. Perhaps your kids will embrace the show in years to come. You should show them the TOS movies if you haven't done so yet. They're much more in line with the TNG aesthetic.

Ever hear of Multi Quote?

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

I would agree to the extent that the cast are still pop culture icons but how popular is the TV show itself among younger viewers? I would consider later incarnations of Trek to be more accessible to the modern viewer, i.e. Strange New Worlds.

Are you claiming TOS is of a superior quality to TNG? Because I would feel the need to dispute that claim.

Overall--yes, and was certainly more innovative for what it was achieving in its era than TNG in the 80s/90s, and in more categories, whether one is discussing casting, art direction, music, etc.

The Twilight Zone is in a league of its own. One of the few shows from that far back that genuinely still holds up,

..while every TZ reboot has not, with most attempting to ape the original yet failing to understand the deeper reason why the original was such a powerful TV series.

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

Anecdote only: My girlfriend's daughter is in her early 20's. Because of my love for Trek, she wanted to check it out. Watched the Abrams movies, then TNG since she knew that was my favourite. Halfway through her watching of that, she decided to check out TOS as a bit of a change up. She watched an episode and said that was more than enough, she laughed and said it's "so cheesy". Then went back to TNG.

TOS will remain legendary for years to come, but only based on its own status and not because the youngins will actually watch it.

 

[James Cole]

Multiquote can be challenging to figure out, especially if you're browsing on a mobile device. You might want to try playing around with it on a desktop computer, and you can make mock up draft posts you don't need to publish.

I am not a younger fan (I'm almost 39) but I am of a generation that grew up watching TNG as opposed to TOS and for me TNG was the definitive Star Trek series for many years. Indeed, it was only through the movies that I got into TOS in the first place. TOS laid the foundation for all that came before it but it's very much a product of the 60s and can be difficult for someone who wasn't around at the time or who didn't grow up watching it to connect with. The Kelvinverse movies may have revived public awareness of the characters but they have a very different vibe and emphasis than TOS itself.

This is probably true for most in the early 30s to mid 40s age range, especially if you got into the franchise as a kid or teenager. TOS proper might not have been easily accesible, but TNG might have been on TV every day and the TOS films easily rented on video.

Are you claiming TOS is of a superior quality to TNG? Because I would feel the need to dispute that claim.

I'm not the poster, but do have some thoughts on that... One thing that really surprised me on my 2015 TOS rewatch (which also saw my seeing 3 TOS episodes for the first time in their entirety) was just how excellent season 1 and early season 2 were. Yes, there are a few clunkers, but of the Berman era, only TNG season 3 and DS9 season 4 can boast having comparable seasons with next to no mediocrity and misfires. TNG and DS9 are more consistently average, while TOS balances greater greatness with greater cringe.

 

[Rahul]

TOS will live on forever. It will survive as memes, video clips, reboots, homages, parodies, references, jokes, comics, costumes.

As long as people will be aware of the name 'Star Trek' (or science fiction in general) TOS will retain it's cult status.

There WON'T be many people left that actually watched all (or only even most) episodes.

But absolutely everyone will have seen clips or still images, and I guess many, many people will have seen at least one or two full episodes (though most likely will stop there).

 

[Jayson1]

I wonder if any tv will be around in 30 years except for older folks still watching. The future it seems to be 10 minute TikTok or Youtube videos.

 

[Kor]

This probably didn't happen everywhere, but my local TV station always played a TOS episode right before the new TNG episode. As a kid, this made for a great evening of entertainment. And nine times out of ten, I liked the TOS episode more.

Kor