They will use the term "phaser", but it will be so new that every time somebody uses it, they'll use their fingers to make air quotes.
"Fire the...'PHA-sers'."
"Fire the...'PHA-sers'."
Will they use Lasers or Phasers?
- Thread starter Jayson
- Start date
Naw use microwaves: It has such potential...
"This...ismy...chicken sandwich and...coffee."
"This...ismy...chicken sandwich and...coffee."
Lasers and phasers are both just ray-guns. We're fretting over nomenclature.
It's hard to get sillier than hats. Hats are the acme of silliness.
For those of us who are interested in future technology, the difference is night and day. A laser is a ray gun, firing an intense beam of light. A phaser seems to be more of a particle beam which has some kind of exotic chain-reaction effect on a target. I'm not fretting, and the story and the acting ARE more important, but the details can be distracting for those who care.
How would people have reacted if the LOTR movies had featured Aragorn and the Gondorians wielding scimitars and samurai swords? True, these and traditional European longswords/broadswords ARE both swords, but...
Lasers and phasers as seen on Star Trek (the original) acted and even looked the same, so your analogy doesn't really apply. As was said before, the same prop was referred to as both a phaser and a laser. They both shoot nearly identical beams for the same effects.
As 60's special effects dictated, yes. But if you look at the mechanism (real in the case of the laser, imagined for the phaser) they are totally different. A laser can focus immense damage on one small point. A phaser, on the other hand, can "blast half a continent".
A laser and a phaser do not act the same. Not even close. To me, SCIENCE matters in science fiction. It isn't just a ray gun, or a teleporter, or a super-fast engine. HOW it supposedly works is every bit as interesting as who's doing what, where and when and why.
A laser and a phaser do not act the same. Not even close. To me, SCIENCE matters in science fiction. It isn't just a ray gun, or a teleporter, or a super-fast engine. HOW it supposedly works is every bit as interesting as who's doing what, where and when and why.
Um, the "laser" that Pike's crew used acted just like a phaser and not like a normal real laser. Science matters to me too, and when lasers act like phasers it is not scientific.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MrVlmFaEHI
As for the visual aspect, the "The Cage" sidearm prop (which is the only thing in Starfleet use that's ever been called a laser) shot solid red beams, as opposed to the rainbow show of the pedestal gun.
When the sidearm prop was reused in "Where No Man", "What Are Little Girls" and "Man Trap", it was given additional bits to somewhat transform the look, and the beams fired were now harsh blue-white, with a phaser-style disintegration effect at the target.
So it would be quite defensible to say there's a difference between the two types of weapon, visually and operationally. But it wouldn't be all that difficult to ignore the "The Cage" laser sidearms as a brief aberration from historical Starfleet norm. Note how the prop is built: it has three separate barrels that can be rotated to position. Perhaps this is merely the Swiss version, with evaporation phaser, cutting laser and stunning phaser barrels installed side by side rather than concentrically?
Certainly it would be pretty silly to say that Roddenberry's "vision" (if such a thing ever existed) included lasers at any point. Or to argue that lasers preceded phasers in the in-universe continuity. TOS already contradicted that, referring to Kirk's use of phasers in the backstory of "Obsession", in the same timeframe as Pike's laser sidearms. ENT just finalized this pseudohistory for us.
As for STXI, I wouldn't exactly object to seeing some more "Swiss phasers" there. The one thing we will assuredly see is an arsenal of never before seen props, including sidearms, communicators and tricorders. And a slight nod towards "The Cage" wouldn't hurt in that respect.
Timo Saloniemi
When the sidearm prop was reused in "Where No Man", "What Are Little Girls" and "Man Trap", it was given additional bits to somewhat transform the look, and the beams fired were now harsh blue-white, with a phaser-style disintegration effect at the target.
So it would be quite defensible to say there's a difference between the two types of weapon, visually and operationally. But it wouldn't be all that difficult to ignore the "The Cage" laser sidearms as a brief aberration from historical Starfleet norm. Note how the prop is built: it has three separate barrels that can be rotated to position. Perhaps this is merely the Swiss version, with evaporation phaser, cutting laser and stunning phaser barrels installed side by side rather than concentrically?
Certainly it would be pretty silly to say that Roddenberry's "vision" (if such a thing ever existed) included lasers at any point. Or to argue that lasers preceded phasers in the in-universe continuity. TOS already contradicted that, referring to Kirk's use of phasers in the backstory of "Obsession", in the same timeframe as Pike's laser sidearms. ENT just finalized this pseudohistory for us.
As for STXI, I wouldn't exactly object to seeing some more "Swiss phasers" there. The one thing we will assuredly see is an arsenal of never before seen props, including sidearms, communicators and tricorders. And a slight nod towards "The Cage" wouldn't hurt in that respect.
Timo Saloniemi
I think that large ship-mounted cannon style phasers were in use before and during The Cage era, as new technology usually isn't small and portable right away. This would explain the two different weapons we saw in The Cage, as well as Kirk's earlier use of shipboard phasers as referenced in Obsession.
Also, Jimmy_C, I don't think the hand lasers in The Cage seemed to act like phasers at all. They fired a rapidly pulsing beam of light that heated some rock and metal, with minor blasting effects, probably from thermal or impulsive shock. This is in no way inconsistent with a high-powered laser. They did not stun, they did not disintegrate. Hand phasers didn't come about for another few years.
Also, Jimmy_C, I don't think the hand lasers in The Cage seemed to act like phasers at all. They fired a rapidly pulsing beam of light that heated some rock and metal, with minor blasting effects, probably from thermal or impulsive shock. This is in no way inconsistent with a high-powered laser. They did not stun, they did not disintegrate. Hand phasers didn't come about for another few years.
Now that's what would be fun to see - a selection of tools for a range of jobs. When our STXI heroes need to cut through something, they draw their lasers; when they need to stun something, they point their phasers.
In ENT, we had two types of gun: the plasma bolt and the phase beam. It was rather enjoyable to see the two types in use side by side. Our Starfleet heroes immediately took to the new, fancy phasers, while the MACO force stuck to plasma bolt rifles, and the NX-01 security forces at some point added phaser "overbarrels" to their bulky plasma rifles to create a dual-mode weapon. It was all in the background, never warranting dialogue, but it was surprisingly consistent: the plasma guns always behaved like plasma guns, never stunning or disintegrating, while the phasers did their phaser thing.
If the makers of STXI wanted mileage out of a "weapons transition" plotlet, they would have to somewhat contradict ENT here (but not TOS and later Trek). However, I don't think such a plotlet would be worth the trouble, or of any dramatic interest. After all, they already did that schtick in ENT, even if low key.
Timo Saloniemi
In ENT, we had two types of gun: the plasma bolt and the phase beam. It was rather enjoyable to see the two types in use side by side. Our Starfleet heroes immediately took to the new, fancy phasers, while the MACO force stuck to plasma bolt rifles, and the NX-01 security forces at some point added phaser "overbarrels" to their bulky plasma rifles to create a dual-mode weapon. It was all in the background, never warranting dialogue, but it was surprisingly consistent: the plasma guns always behaved like plasma guns, never stunning or disintegrating, while the phasers did their phaser thing.
If the makers of STXI wanted mileage out of a "weapons transition" plotlet, they would have to somewhat contradict ENT here (but not TOS and later Trek). However, I don't think such a plotlet would be worth the trouble, or of any dramatic interest. After all, they already did that schtick in ENT, even if low key.
Timo Saloniemi
How so? What, specifically, about the hand-lasers, or the ship's cannon (which, as far as we know, was a laser rather than a phaser as well) was inconsistent in ANY way with real lasers?
Seriously... explain.
1) "Laser beams aren't visible."
Nope... this is untrue.
It's true that laser beams in a vacuum aren't visible (at least at any power level we've ever seen... strange things might happen if you get the photonic density "deep" enough, but nobody knows that for certain).
However, lasers in an atosphere are definitely visible. The more humidity and particulate matter present, the more visible the beam is. The visible intensity of the beam is proportionate to the power of the beam. So, a laser-pointer (which is EXTREMELY LOW POWER) seldom, if ever, gives a visible beam in an atmosphere. In a smoky room, however, even THIS will give a visible beam.
A laser powerful enough to serve as a functional weapon will create a beam which can be seen. Unless the wavelength of the beam is above or below the range of visible light. Even in those cases, it's "visible" to a detector which can see into those ranges.
So... there's nothing inconsistent with lasers and their visibility with what we saw in "The Cage."
2) "Lasers don't disintigrate things."
Neither did the lasers seen in "The Cage." We see two examples of damage done by lasers in "The Cage." In one case, it's a blasted transparency on the front of Pike's cell. It's an oblong hole... which is not what you'd expect from a single shot from a laser. But he DID FIRE TWICE, remember... once with each weapon.
The other time is at the surface... seeing the aftermath of the cannon fire on the elevator shaft.
We see heat damage and removed material. None of which is inconsistent with what you'd expect from a high-powered laser.
So, again... what part of how we saw them work in "The Cage" is in ANY WAY inconsistent with real laser behavior?
Italics mine - not only is the "mechanism" for the phaser imagined, it has been imagined as a bit of fanon technology. There is never any explanation or hint of an explanation offered in TOS for the mechanism of phasers that distinguish it from any other kind of ray-gun, including laser pistols.
There is no "science in science fiction" in this case - the words "laser" (as applied to the devices seen in "The Cage," not in real life), "phaser" and "ray-gun" are interchangable for the same gadget.
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