WIll growing religiosity in the world by 2050 hurt science and space development?

[fireproof78]

As someone who holds to Christian beliefs I see no contradiction between religion and science, the struggle between the two camps is mainly who wants to be in control of society.

Same here.

Now, I have no issue being a religious person and engaging in scientific research and observation. One has no bearing than the other, since my religious beliefs are based upon faith and study, while scientific research is based upon scientific principles and repeated observation. Both have a place in my life.

 

[Timewalker]

the Earth was created on Sunday the 21th of October, 4004 B.C., at exactly 9:15 A.M., because God liked to get work done early in the morning while he was feeling fresh. And that the dinosaurs are a joke that paleontologists haven’t discovered yet...

The words "dinosaurs" and "joke" remind me of the YouTube videos made by Kristen Auclair. She claimed that it was impossible for the flying dinosaurs to fly because if you attach a leather jacket to a kite and drop it off a building, it falls to the ground instead of flying. And in any case, dinosaurs never really existed, but it's wrong to teach kids about them in school because they (the dinosaurs, not the kids) led very immoral lives.

He sells dvds, doesn't mean you have to buy any. You can just watch the interviews of the students and college professors. It is hard to believe that people are not purposefully misreading what I am saying. A change of kind would be a dog becoming a cat, not a virus mutating. A virus adapting doesn't mean that macro evolution has been proven. Obviously adaption exists, just look at human beings! There are many races, but all are human. We aren't different species, but we aren't all the same. Scientists at first did not believe the woman who said she found blood cells in dinosaur bones, because they know that blood cells can only last for thousands of years. They are still trying to explain how the blood cells being there could be possible. If you're open minded watch the whole video and give me your response after having actually watched it.

I don't have to buy science journals either, but that doesn't mean that what is in them isn't research done using the scientific method and peer-reviewed.

I've taken years and years' worth of science classes in chemistry and biology, and kept on with my own private studies. The word "kind" has never appeared as a scientific term in anything I've read or any course I've taken. Not. Once. You (and the individuals peddling their nonsense on that website) are mistaking the bible for a science text, when it is nothing of the sort.

Why should a dog become a cat? That isn't how it works. Both dogs and cats (I assume you mean domestic cats and not the wild ones) have been selectively bred by humans for a long time now, and this has produced breeds that would probably not have existed if these animals had been left to themselves.

In some of these cases, breeding for aesthetic reasons has resulted in respiratory issues for breeds with squashed-in noses, arthritis and other joint and spinal issues for some breeds of dogs, some breeds are prone to hearing loss, and so on. None of these issues are beneficial in the long run and if they had occurred naturally, the long-term prognosis for survival of that breed wouldn't be great.

The last times I played along and was "open minded" about videos of dubious value, the conversations were about Sitchin and somebody's claim to be an "Atlanteologist" who couldn't show us any evidence because it was all conveniently hidden away in a museum where nobody was allowed access to it.

I've seen enough of this sort of stuff (and YEC videos as well) that I don't need to see any more.

 

[SolarisOne]

Growing religiosity? Actually it's been on the decline for decades in both the United States and Western Europe. The attacks on scientific research, expertise, and education are perpetuated by a subset of fundamentalists (and those who prey on their insecurities to gain power) who are scared that the world is changing in ways that don't affirm their own views--many views which have been manipulated by the very people who now prey on the insecurities they fostered.

What none of them seem to realize is that they're creating the very marginalization they're afraid of, right now, in real time. They're trading temporary victory against imagined enemies for future obscurity. They're creating real enemies from people, many of whom would rather just live and let live (not all--there are assholes in every demographic.)

Religion itself isn't the problem--power-seeking and corruption is, as it has always been.

 

[J.T.B.]

If you're open minded watch the whole video and give me your response after having actually watched it.

At 4:15 a man explains that dogs and cats had a common ancestor that's in the fossil record about 60 million years ago. Nothing more is said about it, but Comfort seems to dismiss the fossil record in favor of something "observable." He doesn't make a case for why the fossil record is not valid evidence. Comfort keeps talking about changing "kind" but does not define what he means by kind. The second half is just Comfort proselytizing his Christian faith.

 

[fireproof78]

Religion itself isn't the problem--power-seeking and corruption is, as it has always been.

This is always humanity's struggle. The root source of many a anxiety and depression, feeling out of control. People always want to feel in control of something, and they underlying need goes unrecognized while the external behavior gets blamed.

 

[SpaceKat]

To Timewalker, you are purposefully being rude and "misunderstanding" everything I say. J.T.B responded much better than you, actually discussing the video. To J.T.B. what do you think of

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[StarCruiser]

Ohhh... Another self- appointed expert misinterpreting data for his own purposes! Who'da thunk it?

 

[Santaman]

Banana?

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

Funny that these bearers of these worldview-altering paradigms never appear willing to defend their agenda-driven musings before people who've actually spent countless years deeply involved in the field. Sometimes the conventionally held view in science is shown either to be incorrect or to be only part of the picture, as was the case for vertical tectonics, but the evidence needs to be strong, verifiable, and make predictions that are falsifiable.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

He probably thinks Ken Ham is a respected scientist

 

[Timewalker]

At 4:15 a man explains that dogs and cats had a common ancestor that's in the fossil record about 60 million years ago. Nothing more is said about it, but Comfort seems to dismiss the fossil record in favor of something "observable." He doesn't make a case for why the fossil record is not valid evidence. Comfort keeps talking about changing "kind" but does not define what he means by kind. The second half is just Comfort proselytizing his Christian faith.

Okay, I wasted part of my lifespan watching this drivel, and there are many things the people interviewed should have said. The first one is "STFU about "kinds" because that is not a valid scientific term."

The twit doing the interviewing doesn't understand the first thing about evolution, and was just trying to force "Gotcha!" moments.

To Timewalker, you are purposefully being rude and "misunderstanding" everything I say. J.T.B responded much better than you, actually discussing the video.

If you want to see rude from me, there are other threads on this forum where you will see me being rude. If you want to see no-holds-barred, go to YouTube. I don't hold back there, when confronted by science deniers.

I haven't "misunderstood" you. I just happen to think your position is sheer nonsense.

I did watch that video, and found it ludicrous.

And btw: I have read the bible. It's a collection of stories that's inspired more stories. It's not a science text. And parts of it were cribbed from the stories of older civilizations.

To J.T.B. what do you think of

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There's this thing called "plate tectonics." How do you think mountain ranges come to exist? The reason you find fossils up in the mountains is because the rock was pushed up by the forces of plate tectonics. (At least tell us you don't think the present continents were always the shape they are).

Everything changes, if you give it enough time. The place where I'm sitting right now was once at the bottom of an inland sea. If I were to travel from the city where I live to the city that's 90 miles south of here, I'd see evidence of the retreat of the glaciers that covered this region over 10,000 years ago.

 

[J.T.B.]

Okay, I wasted part of my lifespan watching this drivel, and there are many things the people interviewed should have said. The first one is "STFU about "kinds" because that is not a valid scientific term."

And maybe they did say that. I'd like to see the unedited interview footage.

How do you think mountain ranges come to exist? The reason you find fossils up in the mountains is because the rock was pushed up by the forces of plate tectonics.

Yeah, it's not even hard to explain or understand. I have seen it with my own eyes, layers of rock curving upward, "climbing" up over other sections with the same layers. I can show you where you can take a hike and see it.

The video is good for a laugh. The fellow is using marine fossils on mountains as evidence of the Genesis flood? The obvious question is, if the flood was worldwide and deep enough to cover Mt Everest, where did all that water come from, and where did it go? Did a drain open up in the bottom of the ocean?

 

[StarCruiser]

^ Mystery solved! Of course, God's own drain plug!

Seriously, it takes millions of years for rock strata to form and millions of years for fossils as well. Plate tectonics is a slow moving show as well (save those "fun" moments we call earthquakes).

If the gentleman giving that presentation understands that it takes millions of years for these processes to happen, then he would be admitting that the conception of the Earth as being only ~6000 years old is bunk. If he doesn't understand how long those processes take, he proves he's knows nothing about those processes...

He looses either way.

 

[J.T.B.]

Plate tectonics is a slow moving show as well (save those "fun" moments we call earthquakes).

OT, but you sure got that right. This is what it's been like where I live for the last five weeks. I can tell you exactly where I was for each of those points around 4 or above, that's for sure!

 

[Timewalker]

And maybe they did say that. I'd like to see the unedited interview footage.

Any interviewer trying to elicit "gotchas" will edit out the smartest answers. I can't believe that all the people who appeared on Jay Leno's "Jaywalking" segments were really that stupid. I do wonder about the people in Rick Mercer's "Talking to Americans" show - he even 'got' a couple of politicians. But to his credit he did include the kid who pointed out how silly the question was in the first place.

The thing about "shop" and "stop" is irrelevant to the purpose of the video. It's like building up a scenario where a plane full of Canadians and Americans crashes exactly on the 49th parallel. In which country do you bury the survivors?

Yeah, it's not even hard to explain or understand. I have seen it with my own eyes, layers of rock curving upward, "climbing" up over other sections with the same layers. I can show you where you can take a hike and see it.

I live about 2.5-3 hours from the Rocky Mountains (can just see them from a high point on the east hill of my city, if the air is clear enough). I remember how the first trip I took through the Rockies after taking physical geography in college was so much more meaningful after I really understood what I was looking at. I'd always loved the mountains before and had some idea of plate tectonics, but this time it felt much more special and awe-inspiring to think of how long it took for these mountains and everything associated with them to form and how the glaciers made their own changes.

As for fossils... I live in one of the areas of this planet that is rich in dinosaur fossils. I haven't found any of those, but I've found a couple of others.

The video is good for a laugh. The fellow is using marine fossils on mountains as evidence of the Genesis flood? The obvious question is, if the flood was worldwide and deep enough to cover Mt Everest, where did all that water come from, and where did it go? Did a drain open up in the bottom of the ocean?

"There's a hole in the bottom of the sea... there's a hole in the bottom of the sea... there's a hole... there's a hole... there's a hole in the bottom of the sea!"

Yep, pretty neat trick, given that nobody back then (when the Noah story supposedly took place) had oxygen bottles with them. And for some reason, not one of these flood enthusiasts will ever tell me how the animals of North America knew to emigrate to Asia to get on the Ark.

Ditto for the Antarctic animals. The desert is not any sort of natural habitat for any of those species, so how did they survive the trip there? Some of the Antarctic penguins are already in trouble because the ocean down there is warming up. Food is becoming a problem for them.

As for earthquakes... we've had a few here, but they're caused by fracking. This is not a good thing. Nothing here is set up for earthquakes; the natural disasters we're used to here include wind storms, tornadoes, blizzards, forest fires, and floods.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

I was taught vertical tectonics at secondary school and I couldn't really see how it could explain a lot of geological observations. The long derided theories of Wegener seemed a better fit to me but how could entire continents move thousands of miles? The following week, the teacher came into class and said "forget all that stuff I told you last week" and proceeded to explain horizontal plate tectonics and describe the multiple pieces of evidence for the theory. (Nowadays, using GPS, we can measure plate motions directly.) It was exhilarating to experience such a paradigm shift in scientific understanding.

 

[SpaceKat]

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[Timewalker]

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Oh, FFS... they're complaining that animals "look the same" now as they did before?

Why shouldn't an animal "look the same" if it has adapted successfully to its current environment?

What is going on now with mass extinctions is that there are animals who cannot adapt fast enough to changing conditions, be they environmental or human-influenced.

The people who make these obnoxious videos don't seem able to count past the number 6000. They can't wrap their minds around the concept of tens and hundreds of thousands of years, let alone millions and billions.

 

[Santaman]

Some people are beyond saving, they've been brainwashed and indoctrinated from day one, so just nod and smile, go your merry way and eat a banana.. or a coconut.. possibly a mango..yeah..mango it is.

 

[Timewalker]

Some people are beyond saving, they've been brainwashed and indoctrinated from day one, so just nod and smile, go your merry way and eat a banana.. or a coconut.. possibly a mango..yeah..mango it is.

The problem is that people like these sometimes end up in positions of real power if they become politicians and get appointed to cabinet.

In Canada we've had ministers in science and environment portfolios who are YECs... and are handed the responsibility of balancing the needs of the oil and gas industries with the needs to keep the environment from being wrecked.

At the same time, some of these politicians are pushing to have creationism taught in science classes, allowing parents to withdraw their kids from any science class that even hints that evolution is a real thing, and they couldn't give the faintest damn if a new mine or pipeline or tailings pond kills animals, plants, and whole river ecosystems.

How can a Young Earth Creationist possibly reconcile that belief with overseeing a ministerial portfolio dealing with fossil fuels? It's only possible if they completely deny science and common sense.