• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

WIll growing religiosity in the world by 2050 hurt science and space development?

^^ Never said all christians/other religious people but there are still too many things in life that are negatively influenced by religion, but I guess also an inflated sense of "specialness" among the rest of humanity, humans are not different much from all the other meat and bone machines we've got on Earth because that is exactly what living beings are, all of them, just biological machines, just that a certain laughable type of erect monkey with a teensy little bit more neurons has proclaimed itself special and king of all critters... :p
 
^^ Never said all christians/other religious people but there are still too many things in life that are negatively influenced by religion, but I guess also an inflated sense of "specialness" among the rest of humanity, humans are not different much from all the other meat and bone machines we've got on Earth because that is exactly what living beings are, all of them, just biological machines, just that a certain laughable type of erect monkey with a teensy little bit more neurons has proclaimed itself special and king of all critters... :p
If you go into that arena, you start to question morals. If we're really thinking about it, the absence of morals, if there is no God, it would be more difficult, not less, to work together on projects. Sending people into space took a combined effort from many different people, which would have been even more difficult, if not impossible, to do so without morals.

Subjective morals, or the belief that each person creates their own morals, is singularly unbelievable. The ethical implications of a
Moral relativism and objectivism are often discussed among philosophers today. The ethical effects of the creation and application of morals on society often creates moral dilemmas that philosophers seek to understand. According to Nagle, “The basis of morality is a belief that good and harm to particular people (or animals) is good or bad not just from their point of view, but from a more general point of view, which every thinking person can understand” (Nagel 67). The definition and existence of morality is debated concerning three main schools of thought which include subjectivism, objectivism, and absolutism. Subjectivism is defined as the belief that morals are solely subjective. Subjectivists believe that moral truths are dependent upon each individual. Morals, or “the prevailing standards of behavior that enable people to live cooperatively in groups”, are often considered subject to individual revision in subjectivism (Morals). Of course, the definition of morals changes based on the type of morals in which one believes. Absolutists maintain that morals are absolute throughout all cultures and situations. Objectivists believe that morals are always true, but that they must, at times, be weighed and compromised. This paper will present arguments for moral objectivism and explore the cases against moral objectivism.

The objective view of morality proposes that certain moral truths apply to all people groups, but the application of morals is subject to the culture of the nation. For example, all cultures consider it morally wrong to steal. However, different cultures may define stealing differently. Some cultures share most of their possessions with everyone in their society, making it difficult for them to understand the concept of stealing. Regardless of their view of possessions, they would still view child theft as wrong. Others, like Americans, have strict rules that prevent thievery. In both cases, the culture has not created the morals, but simply chosen to apply it differently. Another commonly used example is murder. All cultures consider it morally wrong to kill people. Some may argue that the Germans murdered millions of Jews under the guidance of Hitler, but many of them realized it was wrong. The strong leadership of Hitler simply enabled them to override their convictions. They knew, or believed, that the murder of innocents was morally wrong. It is generally believed that some universal moral truths, such as the one making the murder of innocents morally wrong, exist. These morals apply to all cultures and people groups, although they often come into conflict.

According to Louis Pojman, there are eight principle moral rules that apply to every culture (Massey 1). Pojman argues that all cultures believe that one should not kill innocent people, cause unnecessary pain or suffering, lie or deceive, steal, cheat, or deprive another person of his or her freedom. Pojman suggests that cultures uphold the actions of keeping one’s promises, honor one’s contracts, doing justice, and helping other people. Moral objectivism argues that each of these moral principles are binding, but that they can be weighed in case of necessity. Objectivism does not require total, absolute morals, like absolutism. Objectivism allows for a compromise between morals. According to Karimi, one moral “may be overridden by another moral principle in cases of moral conflict” (Karimi 4). Suppose a German was harboring a Jew during World War II. A Nazi officer approaches the house and questions the German concerning recent sightings of Jews. The German denies seeing any Jews in the neighborhood, although he has seen the Jew upstairs. The German has compromised the morality of truth to keep the Jew safe. This does not mean that he has created his own set of morals. It simply means that he has chosen which moral was more important in the situation. In another situation, the same German might condemn the practice of lying.

Morals cannot be created by each individual. It is generally accepted that believing murder is right does not make it right. Suppose one man were to devise his own moral code, in which murder was accepted. If he were to kill another person, his own moral code would not make his actions morally right. Another moral belief based on subjectivism states that one should “do unto others as you would have them do unto you” (Puka). This explanation cannot be defended. Consider a situation in which a man steals another person’s wallet. In his defense, he argues that he would have wanted someone to steal his wallet. Regardless of whether he truly wanted someone to steal his wallet, wanting someone else to steal his wallet did not justify stealing another person’s wallet. According to Karimi, “The objectivist maintains that what is right for one person in certain circumstances is right for another in the same circumstances” (Karimi 29). Objectivists believe that morals are based upon situations, not individuals.

Some relativists argue that objectivism cannot be true, as there are no completely objective truths. However, this argument proves itself incorrect. If there are no objective truths, then the statement “all truth is subjective” must be subjective. The statement “all truth is subjective” depends on the fact that there is at least one objective truth. As a result, there might be objective truths, including objective moral truths. Although this argument does not prove that there must be objective truths, it proves that it is possible.

Others suggest that moral truths must be subjective, because objectivity requires absolutism. Morality does not require absolutism. Although lying would be morally wrong in most cases, there are times where you must weigh one moral truth against another. Consider the situation in which a German is hiding a Jew. If he should reply, “No,” then he has violated the moral rule dictating that you should not lie. If he should reply, “Yes,” he has handed over an innocent person, knowing that the result will likely be murder. In such a situation, moral rules are not absolute. They depend partially on the situation.

A final argument proposes that equal rights propose equal plausibility, resulting in an infinite number of moral codes. As everyone has an equal right to their own moral opinions, this argument asserts an infinite number of plausible moral codes exist. In essence, this argument suggests that each person creates their own moral code, which, for them, is correct. The difficulty with this argument lies in the fact that although each person may have an opinion, it does not follow that the opinion is correct. For example, a man believes that 2+2=5. Another person believes that 2+2=3. Neither of them is factually correct, although both of them have equal right to their opinion. The factually correct answer to 2+2 would be 4. Objectivism allows for a compromise between two factually correct morals.

Objective morality, which is defined as the balance of morals and situation, is the way most Americans judge morals today. Widespread ethical morals are utilized by every nation, regardless of specific cultural beliefs. Without a standard of right and wrong which is provided by objectivism, our society would not be able to function. We observe morals as we work together as a nation, bringing up the next generation in an era of peace. The more we adhere to our morals, the more advanced our nation becomes technologically and scientifically. The objective view of morality allows America to stay a great nation as we strive for peace.

Further, I would like to state that I believe that these morals were put in place by God, and even if they weren't, they still benefit our society.
 
Nothing? That isn't true.

Dr. Collins, head of the American government's efforts to decipher the human genetic code, noted that until relatively recently, most scientists were believers. "Isaac Newton wrote a lot more about the Bible than the laws of nature," he said. Just because they believe in God does not automatically make them useless in the field of science.

Albert Einstein was a Christian, and he is revered today as one of the smartest people on Earth. In fact, Einstein said that “Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.”

And in the medical field, Dr. Carson was the first to successfully separate conjoined twins, and he was a Christian. Science explains what is already there, while religion gives it meaning.

As for space development, John Glenn, the famous astronaut was a Christian. In fact, when Glenn’s spacecraft, Friendship 7, was near launch, Tom O’Malley in Mission Control said a short prayer: “May the good Lord ride all the way.” Another person, Scott Carpenter, said “Godspeed, John Glenn.” It is not necessary to compromise religious beliefs for scientific ones.

It wasn't just Christians that debated the ethics of Stem Cell research. There have been many people that have argued that Stem Cell Research is unethical. Not only that, but not all Christians rejected Stem Cell research.

The process of obtaining stem cells leads to the destruction of the embryo from which the cells are taken. Because human life begins at conception, embryo destruction is immoral since it is the destruction of a human being. Even some people who do not believe that human embryos are deserving of full moral status worry about what the effects of normalizing such practices may have on society.

There are more than 70 conditions currently being treated with adult stem cells, and zero with embryonic stem cells. Despite the media hype of the early 2000s, embryonic stem cell research has proven to be useless at treating medical conditions. When tested on animals, embryonic stem cells turned into tumors. As biological engineer James Sherley once explained, “Figuring out how to use human embryonic stem cells directly by transplantation into patients is tantamount to solving the cancer problem.

I am Christian, and I am currently on track to get a bachelors in Cyber Security before I graduate from highschool. There are no rules stating that you must turn your back on science and technology to be religious.

Besides, it's the opposite. Religion is not growing, it's shrinking.
You might have missed that I used the word "interference." I stand by my statement.

eta - An example of religious interference in science education is forcing equal discussion of intelligent design in biology class.
 
Last edited:
Has that ever happened, ever?

I can't think of one time that we have discussed intelligent design in science, except when the kids make fun of it.
 
In that case, don't we all have equal access to an opinion? Is it morally right to demand that students and teachers believe only evolutionism?
 
If you read this article it's mostly developing countries that are becoming more religious. I'm not sure growth of religion in areas without good science education hurts science in other countries.
 
In that case, don't we all have equal access to an opinion? Is it morally right to demand that students and teachers believe only evolutionism?

Of course not, but it's morally right to insist they only teach things in public schools that come from the scientific method.

The teacher and student can believe whatever they want, and in Sunday School teach whatever they want. In public schools, they should teach things that were determined from scientific investigation. Science is not a belief, or a political position. It's the result of empirical objective research and investigation.
 
Science is not a belief, or a political position. It's the result of empirical objective research and investigation.
Exactly.

And anyway, science class is for science. It would be pretty ridiculous, not to mention wasteful, for The Iliad to be on the curriculum in American history.

Comparative religion is an example of a class in which the stories of the origin of mankind that the various religions around the world have could be fairly taught.
 
Of course not, but it's morally right to insist they only teach things in public schools that come from the scientific method.

Prove it, then. Through the scientific method. The scientific method demands that you be able to repeat and observe. Can you repeat creation?
 
^^ Yeah yeah whatever, there are more self aware rather smart animals around, okay at the moment we're the most intelligent which isn't saying much since we're destroying all live on the planet as we speak :p, as for consciousness, you mean the various electrochemical processes in that ball of slightly more neurons than other species have?:biggrin:

As for the mud puddle, well at least we're trying, so one day we might actually get the formula right.:biggrin:
 
Nothing? That isn't true.

Dr. Collins, head of the American government's efforts to decipher the human genetic code, noted that until relatively recently, most scientists were believers. "Isaac Newton wrote a lot more about the Bible than the laws of nature," he said. Just because they believe in God does not automatically make them useless in the field of science.

Albert Einstein was a Christian, and he is revered today as one of the smartest people on Earth. In fact, Einstein said that “Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.”

And in the medical field, Dr. Carson was the first to successfully separate conjoined twins, and he was a Christian. Science explains what is already there, while religion gives it meaning.

As for space development, John Glenn, the famous astronaut was a Christian. In fact, when Glenn’s spacecraft, Friendship 7, was near launch, Tom O’Malley in Mission Control said a short prayer: “May the good Lord ride all the way.” Another person, Scott Carpenter, said “Godspeed, John Glenn.” It is not necessary to compromise religious beliefs for scientific ones.

It wasn't just Christians that debated the ethics of Stem Cell research. There have been many people that have argued that Stem Cell Research is unethical. Not only that, but not all Christians rejected Stem Cell research.

The process of obtaining stem cells leads to the destruction of the embryo from which the cells are taken. Because human life begins at conception, embryo destruction is immoral since it is the destruction of a human being. Even some people who do not believe that human embryos are deserving of full moral status worry about what the effects of normalizing such practices may have on society.

There are more than 70 conditions currently being treated with adult stem cells, and zero with embryonic stem cells. Despite the media hype of the early 2000s, embryonic stem cell research has proven to be useless at treating medical conditions. When tested on animals, embryonic stem cells turned into tumors. As biological engineer James Sherley once explained, “Figuring out how to use human embryonic stem cells directly by transplantation into patients is tantamount to solving the cancer problem.

I am Christian, and I am currently on track to get a bachelors in Cyber Security before I graduate from highschool. There are no rules stating that you must turn your back on science and technology to be religious.

Besides, it's the opposite. Religion is not growing, it's shrinking.
Nothing you've typed here has anything to do with religion interfering with teaching science in school.

Further, I would like to state that I believe that these morals were put in place by God, and even if they weren't, they still benefit our society.
Humans created their gods/goddesses/spirits. Humans also created the morals their respective cultures live by. Different cultures sometimes have incompatible morals, which tends to lead to war, and eventually one culture attempting (and sometimes succeeding) in eradicating the morals/moral actions they find offensive (ie. the people in the regions of Central America that were previously ruled by the Aztec empire no longer practice cannibalism).

As an atheist, I have FAR less concern about the effects of religiosity on scientific progress, as I do the cultural trend toward outright science denial
Get enough science deniers into government and you will definitely stifle scientific progress.

Yikes!

In that case, don't we all have equal access to an opinion? Is it morally right to demand that students and teachers believe only evolutionism?
As the saying goes, we all have the right to our own opinions. But we do not have the right to our own facts.

There is no such thing as "evolutionism." It isn't a religion. It's not a philosophy.

Talking about "evolutionism" makes as much sense as talking about "gravityism." Of course, if the students do decide that "gravityism" is a thing to take seriously, the teacher may find him/herself being sued when the student steps off a tall building sans parachute in the mistaken notion that their "god" will save them from having to be scraped off the sidewalk when they fall.

The ball of sentient consciousness sitting behind a Human beings forehead says different.Can you cause a mud puddle of chemicals to form a cell?
Can your god create a ham sandwich in front of me right now? I could go and make one myself, but I'm feeling lazy. I'd like your god to do it.

Waiting....

Well, shucks. Guess I'm going to have to do it myself.
 
Why don’t they teach logic at these schools?”
At one point in the classic book The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe by C.S. Lewis, an exasperated professor utters the words, “Logic! Why don’t they teach logic at these schools?” C.S. Lewis, The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe (Harper Trophy, 2000), p. 48.Lewis not only believed in truth, but also in our ability to use logic as an aid in determining truth.

Although it is true that logic studied as a formal discipline can lead to challenging formulas and diagrams, in a basic sense we all use it regularly. In reading this article, for example, you are using logic to interpret the words you see. Without logic, you could not make sense of this sentence. Interpreting a rational sentence requires a rational mind with the ability to comprehend words that are structured in a way that makes sense — in short, words that are organized logically.

Historically, Aristotle was the first to explore logic as a formal discipline, but he did not invent it. The underlying principles of logic are readily discernible. We use them every day to get through some of the simplest decisions and actions in life.

Logicians generally offer four broad principles or laws of logic.

First, the law of identity makes the obvious observation that something is itself and, therefore, cannot be something else (A is A).

Second, the law of non-contradiction deals with the concept of antithesis and states that something cannot be true and not true at the same time and in the same sense (A is not non-A).

Third, the law of excluded middle is often presented as “either A or non-A.” For instance, God either exists or He does not exist.

Fourth, the law of bivalence assesses propositions as either being true or false. “God exists” is either a true or a false statement. Space does not allow a thorough analysis of logic or its foundations. For a general introduction to the topic see Come, Let Us Reason: An Introduction to Logical Thinking by Norman Geisler and Ronald Brooks (Baker, 1990) and the standard textbook on the subject, Introduction to Logic by Irving Copi and Carl Cohen (Prentice Hall, 2004). Copi and Cohen, incidentally, define logic as “the study of the methods and principles used to distinguish good (correct) from bad (incorrect) reasoning” (p. 3, eighth edition).

Furthermore, the Bible is not against logic. In fact, biblical Christianity encourages the use of the mind. In Isaiah 1:18 (NIV) we read, “‘Come now, let us reason together,’ says the LORD.” In the New Testament Jesus is clear that we are to love God — not only with all our heart, soul, and strength, but also with our mind (Matthew 22:37; Mark 12:30; Luke 10:27).

Christians are also called to defend the truth by appealing to reason and evidence (Acts 26:25; 1 Peter 3:15). Acts 1:3, for example, says Jesus “gave many convincing proofs” as evidence for His resurrection. In Acts 26:25-26, after the Apostle Paul gives his testimony and outlines the gospel message, he is accused of being insane. Paul replies: “What I am saying is true and reasonable. The king is familiar with these things, and I can speak freely to him. I am convinced that none of this has escaped his notice, because it was not done in a corner.”

In Acts 26, Paul uses logic to make his case for Christianity. He appeals to his own experiential testimony (noting how he used to persecute Christians), makes mention of the resurrection of Christ, and implies that many are aware of the events surrounding the gospel of Christ. Logically, Paul believes the Christian message because of the evidence, both experiential (his encounter with Christ) and evidential (the case for the resurrection, for instance, and the testimony of witnesses).

First Peter 3:15 also appeals to logic: “Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have.” The Greek word translated as “answer” is apologia and was used in reference to giving a legal defense. In this passage, Peter calls readers “to give the reason for the hope that you have.” Reasons presuppose the validity of reason and logic.

The appeal in Acts 1:3 to “many convincing proofs” again relates to logic because a reasonable appeal is made to the evidence for the resurrection. In other words, Luke, the author of Acts, is not asking for blind faith, but faith founded on logical inferences. The New Testament records that many people saw Christ after his death, that Christ proved he was raised bodily by eating food and by inviting doubting Thomas to touch him (John 21:12-13; Luke 24:38-43). These are all logical appeals to evidence and reason.

As a former atheist, C.S. Lewis was well aware of the role that reason played in his conversion to Christianity. That’s why he offered reasonable, logical arguments in support of his beliefs. In doing so, Lewis often utilized what is known as abductive reasoning. Abductive reasoning is similar to reasoning used by the scientific community in that it uses reasonable evidence to come to the best explanation.

In making his case for Christianity, Lewis used abductive reasoning to argue that the Christian explanation of reality — the Christian worldview — is more reasonable and probable than the alternatives.

C.S. Lewis used abductive reasoning to argue that the Christian explanation of reality — the Christian worldview — is more reasonable and probable than the alternatives. (Recall that abductive reasoning is similar to reasoning used by scientists in that it uses reasonable evidence to come to the best explanation.)

Now I’ll take a closer look at two of Lewis’ key arguments that use abductive reasoning:

  • The argument from Christ
  • The argument from longing
God or a Poached Egg?
Jesus once asked his disciples, “Who do people say I am?” After hearing a few replies, he put forth a more pointed and personal question: “‘But what about you?’ he asked. ‘Who do you say I am?'” (Mark 8:27-29).

In exploring the alternatives regarding the claims of Christ, Lewis used abductive reasoning to conclude that the most probable explanation is that Jesus is who He said He was. In Mere Christianity, Lewis provides a brief presentation of his argument: “I’m trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: ‘I’m ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don’t accept His claim to be God.’ That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic — on the level with a man who says he is a poached egg — or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse.” C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity (Macmillan, 1960), pp. 55-56. Lewis also explores this issue in some of his other writings such as in “What Are We to Make of Jesus Christ?” in God in the Dock (Eerdmans, 1970).

Beyond some biblical hints at such reasoning (John 8:48-49 and John 10:33), the core of this argument goes back to Eusebius of Caesarea (c. 263-339), who outlined it in Demonstratio Evangelica (“Proof of the Gospel”). Lewis popularized the argument in Mere Christianity. Since then, several apologists have expanded it to include other alternatives beyond the traditional “Lord, Liar, or Lunatic?” options. Contemporary works that address the argument from Christ include Handbook of Christian Apologetics by Peter Kreeft and Ronald Tacelli (InterVarsity, 1994), “Was Jesus Mad, Bad, or God?” by Stephen T. Davis in The Incarnation (Oxford, 2002), and Without a Doubt by Kenneth Samples (Baker, 2004).Based on the evidence and the truth of the Bible, these apologists, like Lewis, conclude that the most reasonable explanation is that Jesus is who He claimed to be.

Longing for “The Real Thing”
Another line of reasoning Lewis used is called the argument from longing or desire. In it, he not only makes the case for God, but also the case for heaven.

Lewis believed that everyone experiences sensations of desire and longing. We may spend a lifetime trying to fulfill these desires by pursuing earthly pleasures such as taking vacations, moving from one sexual partner to another, or trying different hobbies — “always thinking that the latest is ‘The Real Thing’ at last — yet always ending up disappointed.”

Our experience tells us, Lewis continues, that “Creatures are not born with desires unless satisfaction for those desires exists. A baby feels hunger: well, there is such a thing as food. A duckling wants to swim: well, there is such a thing as water. Men feel sexual desire: well, there is such a thing as sex.” C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity, p. 119-120.

How, then, can we explain deep inner longings that we have that nothing in this world seems to satisfy? Of course, it would make sense to begin by demonstrating that human beings do indeed have these longings. Some might argue that not everyone does have these desires or that they really do not point to God. Lewis disagreed, though, arguing that our longings for the ‘other’ — even though they may manifest themselves in different ways, such as material pursuits — are really longings for the transcendent joy that is found in God alone. For a thorough presentation and defense of Lewis’ argument from longing see Peter Kreeft’s essay, “C.S. Lewis’s Argument from Desire,” in G.K. Chesterton and C.S. Lewis: The Riddle of Joy (Eerdmans, 1989), pp. 249-272.

The fact that we have this longing, combined with the fact that nothing on earth can truly satisfy it, led Lewis to this reasonable conclusion: “If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world.” Ibid, p. 120.

True and Reasonable
In The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe, the professor concludes that a little girl named Lucy is telling the truth about her claims to have visited a world called Narnia. He does this by using abductive reasoning. The professor rationally explores the alternative explanations and concludes that they are unlikely. “For the moment then and unless any further evidence turns up,” argues the professor, “we must assume that she is telling the truth.” C.S. Lewis, The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe (Harper Trophy, 2000), p. 48. By the way, the reasoning of the professor presented in this section of the book parallels Lewis’ logic in his argument from Christ.

In making the case for Christianity, we, too, can use logic such as abductive reasoning. If we can provide arguments and evidence that Christianity is more reasonable and probable than other explanations of reality, then it is rational to conclude — “for the moment and unless any further evidence turns up” — that Christianity is, as the apostle Paul said, “true and reasonable” (Acts 26:25). This does not mean that faith has no value or role in Christian belief, but it does mean that Paul’s faith was founded in a reasonable God, even though His actions might not always appear reasonable from our limited perspective.
 
^^ Never said all christians/other religious people but there are still too many things in life that are negatively influenced by religion, but I guess also an inflated sense of "specialness" among the rest of humanity, humans are not different much from all the other meat and bone machines we've got on Earth because that is exactly what living beings are, all of them, just biological machines, just that a certain laughable type of erect monkey with a teensy little bit more neurons has proclaimed itself special and king of all critters... :p

Pico Fermi prevailing, that might be true but for different reasons. Still, the nihilistic approach is unpalatable at best and the ultimate hypocrisy at its worst and it's not worth ascribing to.

There are also far bigger reasons than what a person may or may not believe in that will have a greater impact on the space industry anyway, as people of various faiths are all working in the program in good faith, alongside the laws of physics in terms of propulsion and all that. Makes one hypothesize and wonder if there are larger reasons why other inhabitable worlds, of which maybe one might have been discovered in amongst every last star and planet charted or discovered so far, are so far distant.
 
Prove it, then. Through the scientific method. The scientific method demands that you be able to repeat and observe. Can you repeat creation?

That's a pretty spurious way to equivocate teaching creation and teaching evolution.

A theory can't be definitively proven because logistically impossible to create the conditions to test it is not the same thing a theory that can't be disproven because it's written to be immune to disproof.

First, I can prove that evolution is an ongoing process, the fact that you need a new flu vaccine every year proves it. Second, evolution as the means of creating mankind isn't only based on something somebody wrote down thousands of years ago. Based on proof that evolution is an ongoing process and species are constantly changing, and fossil records, and geological records, evolution is the simplest explanation of all the things we've observed.

Evolution is consistent with everything we can empirically observe, and if I found evidence that contradicted evolution, I would no longer believe evolution.

We can empirically observe the world is billions of years old, rather than 6000, that life existed well more than 6000 years ago, and that all the life forms that exist now did not always exist.

As for Christian philosophy being applied to moral reasoning, that's fine. For many people it leads toward exclusion and social gatekeeping, but not inherently. As long as it's taught alongside other moral systems and not touted as THE moral system. And I hope you can at least see the problems with teaching one religion as fact in a public school filled with many different children with many different religions.
 
Last edited:
True and Reasonable
In The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe, the professor concludes that a little girl named Lucy is telling the truth about her claims to have visited a world called Narnia. He does this by using abductive reasoning. The professor rationally explores the alternative explanations and concludes that they are unlikely. “For the moment then and unless any further evidence turns up,” argues the professor, “we must assume that she is telling the truth.” C.S. Lewis, The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe (Harper Trophy, 2000), p. 48. By the way, the reasoning of the professor presented in this section of the book parallels Lewis’ logic in his argument from Christ.

In making the case for Christianity, we, too, can use logic such as abductive reasoning. If we can provide arguments and evidence that Christianity is more reasonable and probable than other explanations of reality, then it is rational to conclude — “for the moment and unless any further evidence turns up” — that Christianity is, as the apostle Paul said, “true and reasonable” (Acts 26:25). This does not mean that faith has no value or role in Christian belief, but it does mean that Paul’s faith was founded in a reasonable God, even though His actions might not always appear reasonable from our limited perspective.

Sure, but I apply those rules to Islam, or Judaism, Hindu, or Buddhism, would I not conclude those religions to be equally true and reasonable? What makes Christianity better than everyone else's religion or lack of religion, if they all hold up to the same philosophical standard of reasonableness depending on the eye of the beholder?

You're approaching this discussion from a standpoint that the two options are Christian God or no God. There's dozens of different belief systems out there.

How do you reconcile the standard of true and reasonable with geological records? Do you claim that all evidence of the Earth being older than 6000 years are traps laid by the devil to lead people away from faith, or do you pick and choose which parts of the Bible are literal and which are metaphorical?
 
Last edited:
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top