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Will Before Dishonors Ending Affect Voyager books? Spoilers!

Personally I'm amazed that no one is interested in taking on the creative challenges of writing for the only female captain in Trek.

You shouldn't be. :) Kira Nerys has been the C.O. of DS9 and the U.S.S. Defiant for the last eighteen Deep Space Nine novels; the last eight of them as a Starfleet captain. And this month, we began our exploration of Captain Erika Hernandez of the NX-02 Columbia, and also introduced Captain Ezri Dax of the U.S.S. Aventine--both in the crossover trilogy, Destiny.

So, far from being disinterested in female captains, we have in fact increased the number of them. :)
 
I won't be buying the books. Years from now after either the Trek fanbase grows to appreciate Janeway and Pocket (or whoever is writing the books at the time) decides to launch [...]
She is as far as the televised series go. Also, I wasn't buying the books before Janeway was killed (with the exception of Distant Shores for the "Isabo's Shirt" story) because I thought the fanfiction writers had a better handle on her character.
So, Pocket has lost the money you were never going to give them in the first place? :wtf:
 
Personally I'm amazed that no one is interested in taking on the creative challenges of writing for the only female captain in Trek.

You shouldn't be. :) Kira Nerys has been the C.O. of DS9 and the U.S.S. Defiant for the last eighteen Deep Space Nine novels; the last eight of them as a Starfleet captain. And this month, we began our exploration of Captain Erika Hernandez of the NX-02 Columbia, and also introduced Captain Ezri Dax of the U.S.S. Aventine--both in the crossover trilogy, Destiny.

So, far from being disinterested in female captains, we have in fact increased the number of them. :)

Again, I'm not counting the book captains but the televised one which is what most of the public is familiar with.
 
Also, I find it extremely perplexing that Pocket doesn't want to take advantage of the interest in Janeway. Just going by a google search:

<captain's full name> + "trek" (# of hits):
Janeway: 514,000
Kirk: 204,000
Archer: 97,500
Sisko: 95,500
Picard: 8,130

My Google search using the same terms (with the captain's full name in quotes for exact search) turned up the following:
Picard: 356,000
Kirk: 324,000
Janeway: 107,000
Sisko: 75,100
Archer: 68,100

Without quotes, all the numbers are higher by roughly 30 percent but the order is the same:
Picard: 473,000
Kirk: 414,000
Janeway: 137,000
Sisko: 95,100
Archer: 98,800

So I'm curious to know how you got your figures. The method you claim to have used produces results radically different from what you assert.


Also, if you check out fanfiction.net and the # of stories posted for each series there:

Voyager (5,261)
Enterprise (3,169)
TOS (1,766)
TNG (1,640)
Other (859)
DS9 (762)

Those figures do appear to be accurate, although a couple have had new stories added since you posted this.
 
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Personally I'm amazed that no one is interested in taking on the creative challenges of writing for the only female captain in Trek.

You shouldn't be. :) Kira Nerys has been the C.O. of DS9 and the U.S.S. Defiant for the last eighteen Deep Space Nine novels; the last eight of them as a Starfleet captain. And this month, we began our exploration of Captain Erika Hernandez of the NX-02 Columbia, and also introduced Captain Ezri Dax of the U.S.S. Aventine--both in the crossover trilogy, Destiny.

So, far from being disinterested in female captains, we have in fact increased the number of them. :)

Again, I'm not counting the book captains but the televised one which is what most of the public is familiar with.
Like Erika Hernandez, and Rachel Garret? Hell, we even have Necheyev (sp), who was an admiral.
 
Full Circle and its follow-up will be edited by Marco.

That's my puppy's name. While I'm impressed he can edit we need to have a talk about the carpet...


I can bark “Jingle Bells” and play poker too.


Personally I'm amazed that no one is interested in taking on the creative challenges of writing for the only female captain in Trek.

You shouldn't be. :) Kira Nerys has been the C.O. of DS9 and the U.S.S. Defiant for the last eighteen Deep Space Nine novels; the last eight of them as a Starfleet captain. And this month, we began our exploration of Captain Erika Hernandez of the NX-02 Columbia, and also introduced Captain Ezri Dax of the U.S.S. Aventine--both in the crossover trilogy, Destiny.

So, far from being disinterested in female captains, we have in fact increased the number of them. :)

Again, I'm not counting the book captains but the televised one which is what most of the public is familiar with.

And yet all the captains I named were on-screen characters.

But if you’re now arguing that what happens in the books is less relevant than what was shown on screen, then what does it matter what creative choices are made in the fiction?
 
Personally I'm amazed that no one is interested in taking on the creative challenges of writing for the only female captain in Trek.

You couldn't possibly be more wrong about this. Setting aside the other incredibly strong women who are now captains in their own right in other series, to suggest that the choice to not immediately resurrect Janeway is an indication that we see a challenge and are simply unwilling to rise to it is simply unworthy of the writers and editors who are continuing to explore this universe.

As I've said before, probably many times now, there are as many posibilities for the future of all of Voyager's characters as anyone cares to imagine. Right now we are choosing the deepest and most difficult of those that are possible in an effort to continue to create the most compelling stories imaginable. We may not fulfill everyone's hopes and dreams in our execution, but please don't insult us by imagining that the choices before us when this project was first contemplated were simple and we just opted for the path of least resistance because we weren't interested in a challenge.

You're not going to find a writer or fan who loves Janeway more than I do. Feel free to look, but I'd take that bet any day. And in every choice I've made I have tried to do justice both to the best of what was portrayed in her on screen and the less satisfying choices which were sometimes made by the show's later producers because whether I agreed with them or not creatively, they are now part of the rich tapestry that is Kathryn Janeway.

In a later post you mentioned that you believe the TrekBBS is somehow hostile to Janeway and Voyager fans. I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest to you that many of the folks who post on this board regularly are some of those most interested in demanding that written Trek continue to live up to the best traditions of the filmed series. To criticize a show, an episode, a novel or a character is not a hostile act. It is simply an acknowledgment of a personal opinion and as someone dedicated to writing the best Trek I can, I take those opinions seriously. If we can't look ourselves in the mirror and say here's where we're succeeding, and here's where we're falling short, we can't possibilty be expected to meet or exceed expectations.

That's not to say, of course, that we write these things by committee. We make difficult creative choices and then give them everything we've got, fully aware that sometimes people are going to be disappointed. But I don't take criticisms here as a sign of simple disregard. Voyager may not have been everyone's cup of tea. I absolutely loved the series and the more I re-watch it, which I do, in full, every single time I write a new novel, the more I find to excite me about the possiblities of this series. I don't need everyone to agree with me about that. It's never going to happen. But when individuals raise legitimate concerns about the execution of the work, I do try and consider the question from their point of view. I take these comments as a sign that the dedicated readers out there are hungry for the best Trek they can get their hands on and even when they're poking us with a stick, they're really demonstrating their affection and encouraging us to continue to stretch ourselves.

Voyager is infinitely more than the sum of its parts. Yes, Janeway was and is an amazing character. And it bears repeating that she is still alive during much of Full Circle. Beyond Janeway, however, there are still tons of other fascinating characters who have a long road ahead of them. For me, a lot of what defined Janeway and what made her the heart and soul of Voyager, was her absolute devotion to those she led. Her crew meant infinitely more to her than her own life, as she demonstrated time and again in the choices she made. Surely those who meant so much to her are as worthy of your respect. God knows, they have mine.

As an individual, you are of course free to spend your time and energy only on those stories which appeal to you. If you are only a Janeway fan, and you only want Janeway stories, that's one thing. But if you are a Voyager fan, you do yourself and everyone else here a great disservice by suggesting that there is only one way for this series to move forward in a challening manner.

Kirsten Beyer
 
Also, if you check out fanfiction.net and the # of stories posted for each series there:

Voyager (5,261)
Enterprise (3,169)
TOS (1,766)
TNG (1,640)
Other (859)
DS9 (762)

You would think Pocket would want to tap into some of this but apparently they're not interested...
I ran across this bit of information from Harper's a couple of years back:

Number of erotic Harry Potter fan-fiction stories posted on a website run by an Illinois woman: 1,750

Average number of hits the site receives each day: 198,000

Perhaps Pocket should tap into both audiences, and do a novel where Harry brings Janeway back from the dead, and then she shows him how grateful she is...
 
Kirsten, your responces to would be critics are always very eloquent, thoughtful and polite while you stand firmly behind your work. Im a big fan of your writing and I can tell that, as you say, you truly are a fan of Voyager and Janeway. Im 100% sure that I wont be disapointed by Full Circle, in fact I really dont think I can wait until March. I sure hope we get some glimpses of the work ahead of time as we did with GoM so I dont go crazy with waiting!
 
Also, I find it extremely perplexing that Pocket doesn't want to take advantage of the interest in Janeway. Just going by a google search:

<captain's full name> + "trek" (# of hits):
Janeway: 514,000
Kirk: 204,000
Archer: 97,500
Sisko: 95,500
Picard: 8,130

My Google search using the same terms (with the captain's full name in quotes for exact search) turned up the following:
Picard: 356,000
Kirk: 324,000
Janeway: 107,000
Sisko: 75,100
Archer: 68,100

Without quotes, all the numbers are higher by roughly 30 percent but the order is the same:
Picard: 473,000
Kirk: 414,000
Janeway: 137,000
Sisko: 95,100
Archer: 98,800

So I'm curious to know how you got your figures. The method you claim to have used produces results radically different from what you assert.

lol, I did the same thing, I'm glad somebody called Arachnia on that, because wow... Absolutely no variation on spelling of Kathryn makes Janeway come up anywhere near 514,000. Not even if you remove "trek" and the quotes from around the name is it that high. I even searched for Kate Mulgrew instead of Kathryn Janeway and still no where near that value.

And yet all the captains I named were on-screen characters.

In fairness, only one of those, however were on-screen Captains.

You're not going to find a writer or fan who loves Janeway more than I do. Feel free to look, but I'd take that bet any day. And in every choice I've made I have tried to do justice both to the best of what was portrayed in her on screen and the less satisfying choices which were sometimes made by the show's later producers because whether I agreed with them or not creatively, they are now part of the rich tapestry that is Kathryn Janeway.

Wow, that was written with such passion that I am very glad you are writing Voyager novels. You CLEARLY have a love for the show and its characters. I am now just that much more eager to see Full Circle.
 
lol, I did the same thing, I'm glad somebody called Arachnia on that, because wow... Absolutely no variation on spelling of Kathryn makes Janeway come up anywhere near 514,000. Not even if you remove "trek" and the quotes from around the name is it that high. I even searched for Kate Mulgrew instead of Kathryn Janeway and still no where near that value.

Also, just on the face of it, it's totally implausible that Picard would get fewer than a tenth as many hits as Archer or Sisko. I can't imagine what kind of misspelling would get a result that low.

And yet all the captains I named were on-screen characters.

In fairness, only one of those, however were on-screen Captains.

Ahh, but the fact that Trek lit authors have turned so many on-screen women into captains surely refutes the claim that we're unwilling to take on the "challenge" of writing for female captains. If anything, it shows we welcome the opportunity to do so.
 
Kirsten, your responces to would be critics are always very eloquent, thoughtful and polite while you stand firmly behind your work. Im a big fan of your writing and I can tell that, as you say, you truly are a fan of Voyager and Janeway. Im 100% sure that I wont be disapointed by Full Circle, in fact I really dont think I can wait until March. I sure hope we get some glimpses of the work ahead of time as we did with GoM so I dont go crazy with waiting!

Thanks. :) If you're in need of some great reading to distract you until then, you should definitely pick up the Destiny trilogy. Apart from being wonderful, it does feature appearances by some of the Voyager characters and will give you a little insight into some of their story developments.

Wow, that was written with such passion that I am very glad you are writing Voyager novels. You CLEARLY have a love for the show and its characters. I am now just that much more eager to see Full Circle.

That's really nice to hear.

Kirsten
 
i want Marco's head on a spike for forgetting ADMIRAL SHELBY!

check that, they turned a LTC into a goddamn ADMIRAL!

~*&@ ing Janeway fans $*#% me off...
 
In fairness, only one of those, however were on-screen Captains.

Ahh, but the fact that Trek lit authors have turned so many on-screen women into captains surely refutes the claim that we're unwilling to take on the "challenge" of writing for female captains. If anything, it shows we welcome the opportunity to do so.

Precisely.

i want Marco's head on a spike for forgetting ADMIRAL SHELBY!

I didn't forget her. I also didn't forget Admiral Batanides, or Admiral Uhura, or Captain Garrett, or any of the other on-screen female characters who in the books have received greater attention and development than they received on screen. But I didn't think it was necessary make my point with a list of every such example to be found in the fiction, when a few would suffice.
 
But if you’re now arguing that what happens in the books is less relevant than what was shown on screen, then what does it matter what creative choices are made in the fiction?

That's just it - those creative choices made by Pocket don't matter much to me at this point. There's plenty of fanfiction I can read instead. However, since this is a discussion board I am curious why Pocket isn't interested in tapping into the Janeway fanbase. It's actually an idle curiousity - the results of this discussion won't affect me much.
 
So I'm curious to know how you got your figures. The method you claim to have used produces results radically different from what you assert.

As stated in my previous post: <captain's full name> & "trek"

Restating a claim that's been proven invalid doesn't make it any more true. I actually provided the links to the Google result pages that prove the numbers I got and show exactly what I entered in order to get them. I challenge you to do the same -- to prove your claim rather than merely asserting it. Do the same thing you did before to get the claimed results and give us links to the result pages.

On the theory that maybe the <> and "" are the actual puncuation you used, I used them for <Kathryn Janeway> + "trek" and for <Kathryn Janeway> & "trek" and still got 137,000 hits, not 514,000. Clearly those punctuation marks have no effect at all; the <> and +/& are not meaningful in Google and there's no meaningful difference between "trek" and just trek. Essentially you're entering kathryn janeway trek, and that gives 137,000 hits every time. She's a distant third in the number of searches, less than a third as popular as Picard and Kirk.

Just to see what would happen, I searched for just janeway trek and got 467,000, which is still below your claimed figure. And for just the last names of the captains, the results are:

Kirk: 2,720,000
Picard: 1,020,000
Archer: 772,000
Janeway: 467,000
Sisko: 327,000

Of course, the fewer terms you use, the greater the chance of non-ST-related hits; for instance, with archer trek I got a lot of false hits pertaining to Trek bikes and ST novelist Nathan Archer that I had to filter out, so it's actually archer trek -bike -nathan. But with last names alone, Janeway falls to a distant fourth out of five. (Kirk is a common name too, but adding -bike to the Kirk search only drops it to 2,340,000.)


That's just it - those creative choices made by Pocket don't matter much to me at this point. There's plenty of fanfiction I can read instead. However, since this is a discussion board I am curious why Pocket isn't interested in tapping into the Janeway fanbase.

You've been told repeatedly that that's a completely false premise. It's got nothing to do with lack of "interest." Kirsten Beyer, the author of the next two VGR novels, has just told you in eloquent detail that she's a huge fan of Kathryn Janeway as a character. And as someone who's read the manuscript to Full Circle, I can assure you that it does not treat Janeway with any lack of interest.
 
And yet all the captains I named were on-screen characters.

In fairness, only one of those, however were on-screen Captains.
Ahh, but the fact that Trek lit authors have turned so many on-screen women into captains surely refutes the claim that we're unwilling to take on the "challenge" of writing for female captains. If anything, it shows we welcome the opportunity to do so.

Oh absolutely, I'm definitely not making an argument in favor of some perceived shunning of female captains. But I do see the specific argument being made, that of the people on screen (which is more accessible to Trek fans) the only widely known female captains are Janeway and Hernandez. And I suppose Kassidy (sp?) if you count non-starfleet captains.
 
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