Will Before Dishonors Ending Affect Voyager books? Spoilers!

[Trent Roman]

If Bill Shatner writes another novel in his 24th Century Kirk series, there's a good chance he won't include Janeway's death.

What makes you say that? The Shatner books have, so far, tried to follow the 'mainstream' continuity of the novels, even if they do not reciprocate. Shatner himself may not be up to date with all the details, but the Reeves-Stevenses are quite good with continuity.

Janeway was killed, as far as I see it, because a story about her crew reacting to her death and moving on would be much more interesting than Lame Excuse #7 for her position in the Admiralty to somehow involve her taking command of Voyager for a while. Would you have been happier if the Voyager tie-in novels continued without her in any significant capacity (which they would've eventually had to do anyway) with her still being alive? This way, her character's death gets to make a real impact, instead of just slowly fading out of importance.

Lame Excuse #7? When did we get to Lame Excuse #1? Even if one accepts the unwieldy hypothesis that Janeway's character was going to becoming stale in the admiralty and this required the character being killed off, why not wait until then instead of jumping the gun like this?

As to the question - yes, I for one would have been happier with Janeway fading into the background than being fatally violated. That she would still be alive means that even if the character becomes second-tier, it can still be brought back to the fore at a latter date, which is harder to do when the character is dead since it involves resurrection and all the associated problems that come with it. And I don't think it would have been as damaging to the characters as others seem to think; Ben Sisko's been doing fine as a second-stringer and a de facto civilian.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[PaulSimpson]

If Bill Shatner writes another novel in his 24th Century Kirk series, there's a good chance he won't include Janeway's death.

What makes you say that? The Shatner books have, so far, tried to follow the 'mainstream' continuity of the novels, even if they do not reciprocate. Shatner himself may not be up to date with all the details, but the Reeves-Stevenses are quite good with continuity.

Have they incorporated any of the novel continuity? They certainly have screen stuff, but I thought they worked solely off that.

 

[Turtletrekker]

If Bill Shatner writes another novel in his 24th Century Kirk series, there's a good chance he won't include Janeway's death.

What makes you say that? The Shatner books have, so far, tried to follow the 'mainstream' continuity of the novels, even if they do not reciprocate. Shatner himself may not be up to date with all the details, but the Reeves-Stevenses are quite good with continuity.

Have they incorporated any of the novel continuity? They certainly have screen stuff, but I thought they worked solely off that.

Yes and no, but mostly no. The crew of Titan is consistant with the Titan series, but the ship's history and mission is different. However in the Shatnerverse, Scotty is retired, not part of the SCE. And IIRC, Bajor hasn't joined the Federation in the Shatnerverse. There are other examples, but uit's been so long since I read any Shatner/Reeves-Stevens stuff that I'm not recalling them.

 

[Trent Roman]

^ Kadohata and Leybenzon were in the last 24th century one as well, and other novels-only details get mentioned by the Reeves-Stevens. There are inconsistencies, but most are errors or necessary to the plot; by and large, they have tried to stay true to the rest of the line.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[Stevil2001]

The last Shatner books I read were the mirror universe trilogy, and in those Scotty was still in Starfleet, the Reeves-Stevens drawing on the events of Ship of the Line. Those books also referenced the events of John Vornholt's Dominon War books.

 

[Turtletrekker]

And as Ship of the Line (specifically the Gul Madred stuff) is contradicted by KRAD's "Four Lights" and The Dominion War books (specifically the Ro Laren stuff) contradicts DS9-R, I'll happily put those books into the Shatnerverse continuity.

Also, Captain's Glory, with its Janeway appearance, takes place in 2381, and Janeway died in 2380.

 

[Christopher]

The Shatner/R-S novels do draw on elements of the main novel continuity, but they also contradict it where it suits them. Just as the Star Trek Online game is drawing on elements of the novel continuity but also contradicting it where it suits them. I expect a similar relationship to arise between the novels and the IDW comics. Each line needs to place its own storytelling priorities first, so continuity between different lines is more a matter of homage than exact conformity.

 

[CommanderTroi]

As for strong female characters in Trek literature, I really cannot say that the authors seem unwilling or unable to write them, some of the strongest and best characters in current TrekLit are female, but they don't make a big deal out of it, as it is very common in the 24th century for women to be in command or other dominant positions I assume. But killing off one of the few strong women of the shows is a pitty...

But that's just it -- being truly equal means you don't get special exemptions. It means you not only get the same opportunities but face the same risks. So dwelling on the fact that the lead character who died happens to be female is missing the whole point.

Just in case I didn't express myself understandably (sorry, english is not my native tongue) I am not sad because a female character died here, I am sad because it is Janeway, I really liked her on the show and it would be the same for me as killing off Riker or Picard for example. But that still has nothing to do with the fact that I like most TrekLit in recent years, I just don't like that one event....

 

[Deano2099]

Had Janeway been the only strong woman in Trek Lit, and she was killed off, the people complaining here would have a very strong case. But as people have listed in detail, there are a ton of strong women in Trek books these days, far more than ever before. Maybe not so much in the Voyager these days, ironically enough, but still.
If you're reading the books because you're looking for good stories about strong women, you'll find them all over the place, even if Kathy isn't one of them.

If you want to read stories about Janeway in particular because you like her character: fair enough. Sucks to be you and all. I'd feel the same way. Hell, when PAD eventually kills of Calhoun properly, and he will, I'll be narked. Because it limits the potential for new stories about a character I like. But I certainly won't peg it as some sort of conspiracy against strong male characters with facial scaring.

 

[Nerroth]

Killing off a character in a fictional multiverse where sliding is not exactly unheard-of is not as much of a dead end as it is in non-scifi works.

However, for me, some of the other stuff I've heard about the more recent books like BD (such as the re-arranging of the Sol system) I find to be far more troublesome.

I don't like stories with too much super-big trick stuff going on in them, personally - but then, that's just me.

 

[BryanSorensen]

well, it wasnt as much rearranging but settling all arguements on wether pluto was a planet or a moon!

 

[Nerroth]

Well, I guess these guys might be grateful, then...

 

[Christopher]

Picking on Pluto may be starting to become a trend. In last week's season finale of Cartoon Network's Ben 10: Alien Force, aliens blew up Pluto as a warning for Earth.

 

[DGCatAniSiri]

Poor Pluto... just can't get any love. I mean, why does he have to sleep in the doghouse while Goofy gets a bed?

Uh... wait...

 

[Therin of Andor]

well, it wasnt as much rearranging

"Space: 1999" hurled the Moon out of Earth orbit.

Diana of Sirius had Io blown up in "V: The Series".

"2010: The Year We Make Contact" had Jupiter turn into a second sun.

Nobody seemed to care less.

So, when will Pluto join the Q Continuum?

 

[Christopher]

^^And the Earth's Moon was destroyed in the second season of Space Battleship Yamato/Star Blazers, though it was inexplicably intact again in the third. An American company once did a comic-book miniseries that bridged them and explained how the Moon was put back together.

Not to mention that whole hyperspace bypass incident...

 

[JoeZhang]

It was only until I came here and read the threads about the book did it occur to me that we suppose to think that she was really dead, I just never got that from the end of the book.

 

[Christopher]

It was only until I came here and read the threads about the book did it occur to me that we suppose to think that she was really dead, I just never got that from the end of the book.

And that makes me sad, because it shows how much genre audiences have come to take resurrections for granted, which totally undermines the impact of death as a story device.

 

[JoeZhang]

It was only until I came here and read the threads about the book did it occur to me that we suppose to think that she was really dead, I just never got that from the end of the book.

And that makes me sad, because it shows how much genre audiences have come to take resurrections for granted, which totally undermines the impact of death as a story device.

I could understand your reaction if she died in the arms of another character or just died, but the last we see of Janeway is her discussing the availability of coffee in the afterlife after swapping wisecracks about how Spock had died and come back to life. It screams "don't worry, she'll be back!"

We can only work with what's on the page.

 

[ATimson]

And that makes me sad, because it shows how much genre audiences have come to take resurrections for granted, which totally undermines the impact of death as a story device.

It's not the genre; it's Star Trek. (Or possibly tie-ins, but there are other lines like Star Wars where I would take a death for granted.)