Why weren't the Genii THE adversary for the Atlantis expedition.

[blockaderunner]

I know that TPTB had to push the Wraith as the main antagonist, but I think they missed an opportunity to shift gears to a real challenge.

I pictured the Wraith as this force of nature whose reason for being was to consume without pity. But, like the Borg, they had to have "character" to be a viable enemy, thus watering them down.

What they should have done was make the Genii the enemy. Think of it. A society that was a dark mirror of the Atlantis Expedition. They both had the same goal. To get rid of the Wraith. But the Genii were a little more unscrupulous in their methods. It would have put the AE in a moral fix: Do the ends justify the means? Plus, it wouldn't have been bad to see more snarling Colm Meany and Robert Davi. Anyone else agree?

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Great idea. Make the Wraith more "neutral" as an enemy, stop trying to personalize them, and have everyone proceed from the assumption that they are in a war of genocide with them. Maybe some liberal guilt will result in something like the Michael incident, but at the end (sorry, Connor), they really should have killed the guy - like they should have planned to do from the start in the event of failure, before they ever embarked on their silly scheme. After that flop, they go full bore for genocide as the only sensible option.

The real dramatics should have been with the Genii, with the Wraith as the element that makes it impossible to have a constructive alliance with the Atlanteans.

But the Genii were a little more unscrupulous in their methods. It would have put the AE in a moral fix: Do the ends justify the means?

I wouldn't even let the Atlanteans off the hook like that. I'd have the Genii be more unscrupulous simply because they have a hell of a lot more to lose. The Atlanteans can go home if the Wraith get too tough. The Genii's backs are against the wall. And even in that context, the Atlanteans are going to have to be ruthless enough to opt for genocide, since there's no other strategy that will work against the Wraith that isn't a cheat.

I'd rather have the conflict be that both sides genuinely would like to have a viable alliance but the temptation is always to throw the other side to the Wraith and then run like hell. It's the old joke about two guys running from the grizzly bear...the Atlanteans' ally has their backs against the wall, who will do anything to survive. How can you trust allies like that?

I would absolutely avoid having Our Heroes become the pompous holier-than-thou folks in contrast to those bad aliens who don't know how to behave, when it's the aliens, not Our Heroes, who have to live in their nasty-ass neighborhood and aren't just passing through. I got enough of that from Star Trek.

 

[Harvey]

I thought the Genii presented some interesting storytelling opportunities--in the first season. Your idea is certainly interesting, presenting the Genii as the mirror image of the Atlantian expedition. But list anything that happened in seasons two, three, four, or five of Atlantis and you'll somehow be describing a missed opportunity. Hell, there were missed opportunities in the first season! Crafting a more interesting Genii storyline wouldn't have gone far enough to fix the show.

 

[cylkoth]

What they should have done was make the Genii the enemy. Think of it. A society that was a dark mirror of the Atlantis Expedition. They both had the same goal. To get rid of the Wraith. But the Genii were a little more unscrupulous in their methods. It would have put the AE in a moral fix: Do the ends justify the means? Plus, it wouldn't have been bad to see more snarling Colm Meany and Robert Davi. Anyone else agree?

[Zelenka]Yes,yes...[/Zelenka] They should've been the SGC of the Pegasus galaxy. It boggles the mind that Earth humans-who never heard of the Ancients till just a few scant years after launching their gate program, would be depicted as more interested in finding Ancient tech than the people who grew up knowing who their Ancestors were. How I wish this ATA gene nonsense had never been introduced, as it puts everybody but our heroes at a disadvange. The Wraith did place devices around that would detect anyone possessing the Ancient gene, conveniently letting the writers keep the more interesting toys out of the native's hands...

The Geni should have been a well organized force that was shown actually engaging in constructive acts against the Wraith...with the means to back them up. and their tactics always in question. Someone, either here or at another board, said that once the Daedalus showed up, the Geni were rendered impotent as villains, as it would make no sense for them to have an overly antagonistic relationship with someone capable of blasting them back to the stone age.

But we got stuck with basically, a third world galaxy, where what most of all the people did was mozy into the local tavern and drink themselves into an apathetic stupor...

 

[DWF]

The Geni should have been a well organized force that was shown actually engaging in constructive acts against the Wraith...with the means to back them up. and their tactics always in question. Someone, either here or at another board, said that once the Daedalus showed up, the Geni were rendered impotent as villains, as it would make no sense for them to have an overly antagonistic relationship with someone capable of blasting them back to the stone age.

This was the ultimate problem with making the Genii a main enemy, they were rather weak and it was the wraith that made them and everbody else that way except for the Travellers. As long as a race is stuck on a planet and dependent on stargates it makes them weak as we in the first season of SG1.

 

[The Wormhole]

The Genii definately should have been used a lot more than they were. They seemed to be building something up with them in the first season, but then after that they were practically non-existent. Indeed, with S2 their only appearance was the episode about the coup. In S3 it was just Kolya's two appearances, and after that nothing.

Although there is the issue of the Genii's supposed secrecy. The Athosians bought into the Amish front, but then there were other off-worlders who seemed to know about the Genii and the truth about them. If there were off-worlders who knew about them, why didn't the Wraith ever catch on?

 

[Brent]

I like that idea, about the Genii being the "SGC" of the Pegasus galaxy. I wish they had been stronger starting off. I wish our team came to Atlantis, yes, found Atlantis under the ocean, but then immediately encountered the SGC of the Pegasus galaxy on their first off world mission. This force would be using Ancient technology they have found, acquired, and back engineered just like our SGC. The Genii could have been taking out the Wraith just like we fought the Goa'uld, and we could have walked right into the middle of it, literally. They could have been our equals in this sense, and a very good spring board for stories, i.e. how does our team react when there is already a force in this galaxy just like their own, who has control, who gets to do what, and are their or our actions right or wrong in their methods. A lot of potential wasted there.

 

[Hyperspace05]

Yeah, I agree with the original poster. The Genii were the only interesting villains in Atlantis, and soooo much more could have been done with them.

 

[Kirby]

I like that idea, about the Genii being the "SGC" of the Pegasus galaxy. I wish they had been stronger starting off... A lot of potential wasted there.

I really liked the Genii, and I like the way that the series started out with our team screwing things up with the Wraith. I think it would have been cool to have a more advanced version Genii come in as the "SGC" of the Pegasus galaxy and tell us what morons we were for waking up the Wraith. Then the Atlantians and the Genii would have to fight the Wraith separately and together, and occasionally clash themselves because each had different philosophies of handling the Wraith.

 

[DWF]

I like that idea, about the Genii being the "SGC" of the Pegasus galaxy. I wish they had been stronger starting off. I wish our team came to Atlantis, yes, found Atlantis under the ocean, but then immediately encountered the SGC of the Pegasus galaxy on their first off world mission. This force would be using Ancient technology they have found, acquired, and back engineered just like our SGC. The Genii could have been taking out the Wraith just like we fought the Goa'uld, and we could have walked right into the middle of it, literally. They could have been our equals in this sense, and a very good spring board for stories, i.e. how does our team react when there is already a force in this galaxy just like their own, who has control, who gets to do what, and are their or our actions right or wrong in their methods. A lot of potential wasted there.

Had the wraith not been awakened in the pilot it's possible that they would've been awakened for a thousand years or more, so it's doubtful that the Genii would've been fighting them at all.

 

[Brent]

I like that idea, about the Genii being the "SGC" of the Pegasus galaxy. I wish they had been stronger starting off. I wish our team came to Atlantis, yes, found Atlantis under the ocean, but then immediately encountered the SGC of the Pegasus galaxy on their first off world mission. This force would be using Ancient technology they have found, acquired, and back engineered just like our SGC. The Genii could have been taking out the Wraith just like we fought the Goa'uld, and we could have walked right into the middle of it, literally. They could have been our equals in this sense, and a very good spring board for stories, i.e. how does our team react when there is already a force in this galaxy just like their own, who has control, who gets to do what, and are their or our actions right or wrong in their methods. A lot of potential wasted there.

Had the wraith not been awakened in the pilot it's possible that they would've been awakened for a thousand years or more, so it's doubtful that the Genii would've been fighting them at all.

They could have changed that whole premise though is our point, the Wraith could have been awake for hundreds or thousands of years at that point when our team arrived.

 

[DWF]

I like that idea, about the Genii being the "SGC" of the Pegasus galaxy. I wish they had been stronger starting off. I wish our team came to Atlantis, yes, found Atlantis under the ocean, but then immediately encountered the SGC of the Pegasus galaxy on their first off world mission. This force would be using Ancient technology they have found, acquired, and back engineered just like our SGC. The Genii could have been taking out the Wraith just like we fought the Goa'uld, and we could have walked right into the middle of it, literally. They could have been our equals in this sense, and a very good spring board for stories, i.e. how does our team react when there is already a force in this galaxy just like their own, who has control, who gets to do what, and are their or our actions right or wrong in their methods. A lot of potential wasted there.

Had the wraith not been awakened in the pilot it's possible that they would've been awakened for a thousand years or more, so it's doubtful that the Genii would've been fighting them at all.

They could have changed that whole premise though is our point, the Wraith could have been awake for hundreds or thousands of years at that point when our team arrived.

Were that true the wraith would've killed off all the Genii had they offered any kind of resistance, being planet bound and depentant on stargates for interplanetary travel is what keeps the wraith in power. And the Genii would've developed nuclear power to build a bomb in the first place.

 

[Brent]

Had the wraith not been awakened in the pilot it's possible that they would've been awakened for a thousand years or more, so it's doubtful that the Genii would've been fighting them at all.

They could have changed that whole premise though is our point, the Wraith could have been awake for hundreds or thousands of years at that point when our team arrived.

Were that true the wraith would've killed off all the Genii had they offered any kind of resistance, being planet bound and depentant on stargates for interplanetary travel is what keeps the wraith in power. And the Genii would've developed nuclear power to build a bomb in the first place.

Again, if they had made the Genii stronger than they were originally shown, they could have stood up to the Wraith, just like we did with the Goa'uld. They could have written the Genii differently from the get-go.

 

[DWF]

Again, if they had made the Genii stronger than they were originally shown, they could have stood up to the Wraith, just like we did with the Goa'uld. They could have written the Genii differently from the get-go.

OK, how much more powerful are we talking about here? I mean the wraith were defeating the Ancients, the greater power and numbers the Ancients were throwing against them.

 

[Brent]

Again, if they had made the Genii stronger than they were originally shown, they could have stood up to the Wraith, just like we did with the Goa'uld. They could have written the Genii differently from the get-go.

OK, how much more powerful are we talking about here? I mean the wraith were defeating the Ancients, the greater power and numbers the Ancients were throwing against them.

Your talking about how things ARE, we are talking about how things COULD HAVE BEEN. All it takes is different writing, change the premise so that the Genii are the "SGC" of the Pegasus, personally I think it would have been much better, potential lost IMO, i'm repeating myself.

 

[DWF]

Again, if they had made the Genii stronger than they were originally shown, they could have stood up to the Wraith, just like we did with the Goa'uld. They could have written the Genii differently from the get-go.

OK, how much more powerful are we talking about here? I mean the wraith were defeating the Ancients, the greater power and numbers the Ancients were throwing against them.

Your talking about how things ARE, we are talking about how things COULD HAVE BEEN. All it takes is different writing, change the premise so that the Genii are the "SGC" of the Pegasus, personally I think it would have been much better, potential lost IMO, i'm repeating myself.

I totality undserstand what you're saying, but you seem to be missing my point. If the Ancients were getting defeated by the wraith then what chance would the Genii have no matter how powerful the writers made them? If the show is set up that Atlantis was still found submerged that means the wraith were still winning the war.

You'd have to make several big rewrites of the original premise to make the Genii powerful enough to be a threat to the wraith. Whenever somebody makes a suggestion like this it's in a really like a domino effect, if you change one thing you need to change a great many other things as well to make it work.

The SGC benefited greatly from the fact that earth was laft alone for thousands of years. It'd make a nice parallel universe story as long as you don't think about it for very long, but I don't think it'd work as the main premise of the show.

 

[Brent]

It is just words on paper, so I have no problem changing things to make this idea work.

 

[Yoda]

This all sounds just a little above the Stargate writers' pay grade.

"Wisecracks and space vampires" was the premise of this show, with SG1 rehashes like replicators thrown in for bad measure.

Honestly I'm surprised they didn't just go all out and cast Kevin Sorbo.

 

[cylkoth]

OK, how much more powerful are we talking about here? .

Your talking about how things ARE, we are talking about how things COULD HAVE BEEN. All it takes is different writing, change the premise so that the Genii are the "SGC" of the Pegasus, personally I think it would have been much better, potential lost IMO, i'm repeating myself.

I totality undserstand what you're saying, but you seem to be missing my point. If the Ancients were getting defeated by the wraith then what chance would the Genii have no matter how powerful the writers made them?

You'd have to make several big rewrites of the original premise to make the Genii powerful enough to be a threat to the wraith. Whenever somebody makes a suggestion like this it's in a really like a domino effect, if you change one thing you need to change a great many other things as well to make it work.

But D, look at the wondrous success our Expedition has had fighting the Wraith for a mere 5 years. That's the head slapper here. What we're doing here is playing "what if", and we can't help but wonder how the show might have been, if the humans of Pegasus-the Geni specifically, hadn't been so severely crippled due to the smashing of worlds that showed signs of advancement by the Wraith.
And the Geni, as Colwyn mentioned in their first appearance, once was a interplanetary society, originally spread across many worlds. They had no problems hiding their advancements in the face of Wraith oppression back then, so we're thinking how nice it would've been if when our heroes encountered them, if they had been closer to at least, a late 20th century Earth level, intead of the mandatory 1940 ish vibe they were stuck with. And complete lack of knowledge regarding Ancient technology and science.

 

[Brent]

^ Maybe not lack of knowledge regarding Ancient technology, it would have been nice if they had a few Ancient toys to fend off the Wraith, hence why they could have survived so long with the Wraith out there, and generally know about the Ancients and their history. But, they would have not known where the Ancient city ship was, that leaves room for our team finding it, making base there, and stepping into something we know nothing about in the Pegasus galaxy.