Spoilers Why wasn't the Franklin and NX class ship?
- Thread starter WraithDukat
- Start date
Unfortunate, but yeah. Though I must say, I was pleasantly surprised at how the Franklin's core kind of evoked the NX-01 core, only with orange/yellow instead of purple. Something like that is much easier to recreate than an entire bridge obviously, and the movie only needed to show a fraction of the engine room/warp core to begin with.
Not saying that the movie should've used anything from Enterprise (they really didn't need to, it'd be the same movie in the end), but I very much appreciate the small steps they took to ensure a somewhat consistent visual.
For the STB scenes set on the Franklin's bridge, that probably wouldn't have worked if they'd used the Enterprise bridge (if it had still existed) because that one is just too big. STB needed a small, cramped bridge, with a minimum of crew stations.
@Christopher: I buy the idea that the Franklin was a MACO ship, but if it was, why were its crew all given Starfleet uniforms and ranks? If they'd go to all the trouble to integrate the MACOs with Starfleet (most of them anyway, i.e. the ones that didn't become the SFMC), any particular reason the MACOs would still have their own ship?
@Christopher: I buy the idea that the Franklin was a MACO ship, but if it was, why were its crew all given Starfleet uniforms and ranks? If they'd go to all the trouble to integrate the MACOs with Starfleet (most of them anyway, i.e. the ones that didn't become the SFMC), any particular reason the MACOs would still have their own ship?
I could've sworn the Franklin bridge was wider and more spacious, and in my mind it made sense because of the need for a big screen movie set.
Of course, I could be just saying this as an excuse for someone to post up screenshots of the pretty, pretty movie.
*Wheels out creaky old comparison*
Franklin 137m
NX class 225m
The Franklin bridge set was maybe 2/3 the NX main bridge area at most. She was meant to be as small and crampt as possible.
I meant on screen sets. I'm fully aware that the NX-01 is longer/larger than the Franklin, that's easy enough to tell. Trek has a mixed history of the interiors matching the size of the exteriors throughout the generations.
Did you notice that the plaque reads "FRANK LIN", a Tuckerism to one of Justin Lin's relatives?
It was a simple issue of money. The show was over and there wasn't another one in the works. Those soundstages only make money when they're in use, so getting rid of sets from a cancelled show as quickly as possible so they can be used for something else is kinda standard procedure. It also costs money to keep sets in storage, but that cost is generally deferred if those sets are going to be used for another production fairly soon. That wasn't the case in 2005.
When VOY was ending, they were dismantling some sets--like the transporter room--while other scenes were still being shot on other sets.
Edison was given a ship he was familiar with as his command.
Okay then.
Wonder if there's a reason that the Franklin didn't seem to have them (not installed in the first place or broken) or if the Vulcans/Andorians didn't share for whatever reason.
Okay. Not sure if I would've done the same thing, but I see where you're coming from. of course, I did enjoy the later seasons more (although I never got what was so awful about the first two: they were okay, at worse, and enjoyable in general).
Calm down, I'm not really nitpicking anything, here.
I've heard the idea that part of the reason Krall/Edison felt like the Federation/Starfleet had left him to rot was not only because they took away the job he felt he belonged in (a soldier) and forced him to become an explorer, but that they also gave him an outdated ship, adding insult to injury. I was just trying to get an idea what the state of the art for ship tech was at the time he was in command of the Franklin and how the Franklin matched. The more behind the Franklin was (whether by intention or by happenstance), the more that theory has weight. Since I find the theory interesting, I'm just curious how it meshes with the movie.
(I also think that the Franklin, baring a few minor details, fits really well into the prime universe. If the rest of the reboot movies had put this much attention to detail and accuracy as the writers, setmakers, etc. gave to this one ship and its props, I wouldn't have been as bugged by them.)
No, I'd heard that the director named the ship after his father, but I didn't notice the text spacing on the plaque.
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The NX class was purpose built to be the largest Starfleet ship, with all amenities for the 83 crew and room for the large Warp 5 drive assembly to fit in. But also to serve as a roomy enough home for a deep space assignment the likes of which no Warp 2-3 ships had tried before. The ECS ships were very rough, the Space Boomers weren't very comfortable and had little to do except make little boomers.
Franklin was a warp 4 prototype engine with a small ship built around it with only what it needed for a MACO team to go from A to B. It's a stark, short range, military only ship. And the post Federation spruce up was more of a PR gesture for the now redundant MACO's.
No doubt she could make it to a lot of the worlds Enterprise visited, a little slower. But they would have gotten follow up duty, not front line work. And Edison had a clear dislike of aliens. Making him follow the NX class around in a glorified bath toy of a ship to talk to alien races would have been a nightmare for him.
As for tech trickling down, I remember the books saying that the warp 5 engine wouldn't fit into a lot of the old ships, and some of them could only make warp 4-ish on it anyway, making them all as fast as the Franklin (making her even more redundant). And that even the NX class either had shields, or warp going at once, activating both would be bad given how hard it was to intergrate Andorian technology to Human ships.
It's looking like the 2170's and the rolling out of the first hybrid warp 7 ships was when the problem was solved, by then the Franklin had been lost for a decade.
Franklin was a warp 4 prototype engine with a small ship built around it with only what it needed for a MACO team to go from A to B. It's a stark, short range, military only ship. And the post Federation spruce up was more of a PR gesture for the now redundant MACO's.
No doubt she could make it to a lot of the worlds Enterprise visited, a little slower. But they would have gotten follow up duty, not front line work. And Edison had a clear dislike of aliens. Making him follow the NX class around in a glorified bath toy of a ship to talk to alien races would have been a nightmare for him.
As for tech trickling down, I remember the books saying that the warp 5 engine wouldn't fit into a lot of the old ships, and some of them could only make warp 4-ish on it anyway, making them all as fast as the Franklin (making her even more redundant). And that even the NX class either had shields, or warp going at once, activating both would be bad given how hard it was to intergrate Andorian technology to Human ships.
It's looking like the 2170's and the rolling out of the first hybrid warp 7 ships was when the problem was solved, by then the Franklin had been lost for a decade.
Your point makes me think, Edison's been so dedicated to the military and the whims of hierarchy that it could be that he's incapable of saying no to top brass, even if it's an offer or gesture rather than an order, hence why he didn't turn down command of the Franklin. But the ones who can't say no but want to tend to let the regret and "what ifs" fester and dwell until it becomes toxic and gets released in a gross, unhealthy way. Maybe he can get fleshed out just a bit more in a future publication.
This is probably unintentional, but on the flip side we have Commodore Paris and Kirk talking about Kirk's application to become admiral and get a desk job. Paris tells Kirk that Starfleet is considering it, but also that Kirk has a choice to follow through or not. She doesn't say one's better than the other (but is happy to hear that he chooses to remain as captain), but she does present the options, which Kirk is welcome to consider. Not an order, but a conversation.
Edison had a very fixated personality before he got lost or became Krall, by the sounds of it. And growing up during the Vulcan occupation, only to finally take command of a MACO divison in time to see millions die because of the Xindi and not even catch their breath before the Romulans nuked Coridan, would have given him a lifetime of negative views on ET life.
His time on Altamid saw him exploit thousands of individuals from dozens of species to achieve a completely xenophobic goal. That's...probably as twisted as most villains can get. We just didn't get a good enough fleshing out of that in the time we had.
His time on Altamid saw him exploit thousands of individuals from dozens of species to achieve a completely xenophobic goal. That's...probably as twisted as most villains can get. We just didn't get a good enough fleshing out of that in the time we had.
Just to add, I get the sense that Edison found being assigned Franklin acceptable, and while he may have harbored ill feelings toward "breaking bread with our enemies", he appeared to be OK with how things were proceeding from the video with the shuttlepod. It doesn't seem like he went off the xenophobic deep-end until becoming lost on Altamid and slowly going crazy as his crew was lost.
Both the concept of the Franklin having been a prototype or experiment dedicated to achieving warp four, and the concept of her having been a MACO ship, are speculation we can ditch if it doesn't help us along the particular path of worldbuilding or rationalization that appeals to us.
Probably NX-Delta hitting its performance goals would be indicative of Earth making great leaps in reliable high speed warp propulsion, and probably it would follow that the tech would get practical applications as soon as possible, and in some cases sooner - well before the launch of NX-01 in any case. The Franklin might have been a run-of-the-mill patrol ship "upgraded" in a nonsensical manner just to see whether she could; an operationally sensible attempt at a high speed courier, intended to reach warp six but failing miserably; or the part of Earth's projected warp five survey fleet that was the easiest to build, hence completed years before NX-01 but stalled at Earth for lacking in deep space survivability (without which the Vulcan Astronautics Administration would not give its vital certificate), and perhaps reaching her built-in warp 5.2 top speed only much later, in desperate times of conflict. Etc. etc. etc.
What can't we ditch? The dedication plaque is clearly not original, as it features the postwar UFP Starfleet identity. The speed record can be given a coarse timestamp, but this need not correlate with the age of the actual vessel. Earth origin is likely but not confirmed - only Earth ownership at the time of the speed record is.
The Franklin is massively different from NX-01 in these respects. Not that the story or the writers would have needed the leeway, nor is its existence likely to have been particularly deliberate - but it's there for future use, and would not be had NX-01 or a sister ship been used.
Timo Saloniemi
Probably NX-Delta hitting its performance goals would be indicative of Earth making great leaps in reliable high speed warp propulsion, and probably it would follow that the tech would get practical applications as soon as possible, and in some cases sooner - well before the launch of NX-01 in any case. The Franklin might have been a run-of-the-mill patrol ship "upgraded" in a nonsensical manner just to see whether she could; an operationally sensible attempt at a high speed courier, intended to reach warp six but failing miserably; or the part of Earth's projected warp five survey fleet that was the easiest to build, hence completed years before NX-01 but stalled at Earth for lacking in deep space survivability (without which the Vulcan Astronautics Administration would not give its vital certificate), and perhaps reaching her built-in warp 5.2 top speed only much later, in desperate times of conflict. Etc. etc. etc.
What can't we ditch? The dedication plaque is clearly not original, as it features the postwar UFP Starfleet identity. The speed record can be given a coarse timestamp, but this need not correlate with the age of the actual vessel. Earth origin is likely but not confirmed - only Earth ownership at the time of the speed record is.
The Franklin is massively different from NX-01 in these respects. Not that the story or the writers would have needed the leeway, nor is its existence likely to have been particularly deliberate - but it's there for future use, and would not be had NX-01 or a sister ship been used.
Timo Saloniemi
No.
The intention in the film is clear, and we know from much of Into Darkness and Beyond that the Enterprise era remains unaffected. She's the Earth Starfleet's first Warp 4 ship and a MACO vessel, operating alongside the Earth fleet seen in Seasons 3 and 4 and through the Romulan War.
Chalk some aesthetic differences in for this being a 2016 production and not using aging and unfit CGI from the early 2000's and you have the rest.
The intention in the film is clear, and we know from much of Into Darkness and Beyond that the Enterprise era remains unaffected. She's the Earth Starfleet's first Warp 4 ship and a MACO vessel, operating alongside the Earth fleet seen in Seasons 3 and 4 and through the Romulan War.
Chalk some aesthetic differences in for this being a 2016 production and not using aging and unfit CGI from the early 2000's and you have the rest.
As someone who was there when TMP first came out and completely redesigned the entire Trek universe just because it could, I find it so quaint when today's fans go "Aaaaaahh! That detail looks slightly different! Alternate universe!!!"
