Why wasn't Sisko replaced?

[DanGussin]

IMO - Starfleet originally looked at DS9 as a backwater posting and a symbolic gesture to Bajor as opposed to a more meaningful operation. When the wormhole was discovered Starfleet assumed that Sisko would be more of an airport manager and that exploration and first contact would be handled by ships transiting thru. It was also , of course, an olive branch to Bajor when Sisko was proclaimed the Emissary.

As Sisko began to prove himself it became more difficult to replace him both due his own actions as well as the complexity of his role in stabilizing Bajor after the occupation. To pull Sisko out would just make the recovery of Bajor that much harder.

I suspect that if the Dominion war had come sooner that Sisko would have been replaced but by the time hostilities broke out he was already a proven asset.

 

[Tosk]

IMO - Starfleet originally looked at DS9 as a backwater posting and a symbolic gesture to Bajor as opposed to a more meaningful operation.

Picard made it sound pretty important to me.

PICARD: I'm a strong proponents for their entry into the Federation.
SISKO: Is it going to happen?
PICARD: Not easily. The ruling parties are at each others throats. Factions that were united against the Cardassians have resumed old conflicts.
SISKO: Sounds like they're not ready.
PICARD: Your job is to do everything short of violating the Prime Directive to make sure that they are.

In the premiere you get a not so subtle hint that Picard doesn’t think much of Sisko at the time and he was given the command because pre-wormhole it was an unimportant assignment.

Which part of the conversation is that from? The only vibe I catch from Picard is his annoyance with Sisko's attitude towards him personally.

 

[STEPhon IT]

It really doesn't. They "created" Sisko because he was the one who taught them about linear time.

???
That doesn't make any sort of sense.

It wasn't only Sisko teaching the prophets about linear time, but also the prophets teaching Sisko how to let go over the past and embrace his new life. The whole thing was ordained by the wormhole aliens all along, through Sarah giving birth to him. Most Star Trek shys away from spirituality/religion, but Deep Space was the only show to give us a literal Jesus.

The Sarah subplot is a re-introduction of the Ben Sisko character and doesn't hold much water when looking at the pilot. This revelation of Sarah could've been introduced in Sisko's first encounter with the wormhole aliens if the series was designed to be one dimensional originally. I doubt this was Michael Pillar's original intent for the Sisko character, the idea of an Emissary was he, only he, could speak to the Prophets, but the show was spiraling down the toilet bowl where even Quark can talk to them, and pull a Janeway and make deals with them.

 

[DanGussin]

Picard made it sound pretty important to me.

PICARD: I'm a strong proponents for their entry into the Federation.
SISKO: Is it going to happen?
PICARD: Not easily. The ruling parties are at each others throats. Factions that were united against the Cardassians have resumed old conflicts.
SISKO: Sounds like they're not ready.
PICARD: Your job is to do everything short of violating the Prime Directive to make sure that they are.

Which part of the conversation is that from? The only vibe I catch from Picard is his annoyance with Sisko's attitude towards him personally.

While important , the posting to Bajor was not in an overall sensitive area. Had things gone as originally planned much of what Sisko would have been doing would have been mediating between the various factions and acting as a reminder of the requirements for UFP membership. Admittedly , on a day to day basis there would have been stress and conflict resolution for Sisko to deal with but I think the Federation underestimated the deep divisions and scars left by the occupation. .

As Sisko said latter , it is hard for people living in paradise to understand the needs of those whos basic needs are not being met. I can see the general feeling being one of "of course the poor Bajorains want to be at peace and join up after so many years of suffering, it wont be a problem at all" .

Picard clearly had a personal stake in this issue because of his relationship with Ro and the Bajorain refugees he had contact with so he might have come off as a bit severe.

Honestly, I don't see how the Prime Directive applies here. Bajor was a warp capable planet who were certainly aware of life on other worlds and with the Federation in particular. They had requested Federation membership as a means to protect themselves after the occupation but I really don't see any of the social or technological concerns inherent to most Prime Directive / first contact situations. Its not like they were going to just give up their culture after exposure to more advanced races.

 

[Farscape One]

In this context, the Prime Directive is more about direct interference in internal Bajoran affairs.

 

[Tosk]

That doesn't make any sort of sense.

Sure it does. You're just thinking too linearly.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Is it possible that Deep Space 9 was an important post but it's CO was a lower-level position? The first conversation between Picard and Sisko makes it seem that Sisko was not being seen as a policy maker when it came to Bajoran affairs. He was assigned to implement it. He was tasked with fostering unity between factions and managing development efforts. His position was comparable to Cal Hudson, who similarly lacked latitude to affect UFP decisions. Conversely, Picard and Jellico felt they had the ability to shape how the Federation responded to the Klingons and the Cardassians. Sisko was left unaware of Kai Winn's efforts to forge a treaty with Cardassia. When he did act autonomously, he did so in contravention of Federation policy: remaining on the station during the Circle's siege, destroying the wormhole in the Vorta's simulation, withholding information about Hudson's involvement in the Maquis, etc. Only when he is "THE CAPTAIN" does Sisko start to shape Federation responses. I don't think the Sisko of season one gets to scuttle treaties because of locusts.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

I think it would have been interesting if Sisko remained the senior Starfleet officer in system but the increasing strategic importance had lead the Federation Council to assign more senior Federation officals - a Federation Assistant Commissioner, a Federation Security Unit Chief/SAIC etc.

 

[CommanderRaytas]

???
The Sarah subplot is a re-introduction of the Ben Sisko character and doesn't hold much water when looking at the pilot. This revelation of Sarah could've been introduced in Sisko's first encounter with the wormhole aliens if the series was designed to be one dimensional originally. I doubt this was Michael Pillar's original intent for the Sisko character, the idea of an Emissary was he, only he, could speak to the Prophets, but the show was spiraling down the toilet bowl where even Quark can talk to them, and pull a Janeway and make deals with them.

Agreed. As much as I love DS9, I think this whole Space Jesus thing was silly and contradicted the pilot drastically. Season seven had an unfortunate shift toward black/white morality and instances of "FOR I MUST FIGHT THE EVULZ!" that made me sigh in exasperation several times.

I still love the show and try to make the inconsistencies work via head-canon as best I can.

 

[kkt]

Is it possible that Deep Space 9 was an important post but it's CO was a lower-level position? The first conversation between Picard and Sisko makes it seem that Sisko was not being seen as a policy maker when it came to Bajoran affairs. He was assigned to implement it. He was tasked with fostering unity between factions and managing development efforts. His position was comparable to Cal Hudson, who similarly lacked latitude to affect UFP decisions. Conversely, Picard and Jellico felt they had the ability to shape how the Federation responded to the Klingons and the Cardassians. Sisko was left unaware of Kai Winn's efforts to forge a treaty with Cardassia. When he did act autonomously, he did so in contravention of Federation policy: remaining on the station during the Circle's siege, destroying the wormhole in the Vorta's simulation, withholding information about Hudson's involvement in the Maquis, etc. Only when he is "THE CAPTAIN" does Sisko start to shape Federation responses. I don't think the Sisko of season one gets to scuttle treaties because of locusts.

He didn't get to have a say in Federation policy because he was promoted to Captain. He was promoted to Captain when he had enough judgement and experience to start having a say in Federation policy.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

He didn't get to have a say in Federation policy because he was promoted to Captain. He was promoted to Captain when he had enough judgement and experience to start having a say in Federation policy.

Not really what I said. Yes, he matures into the role of the captain, not unlike showing his growing leadership skills prove that he is capable of taking on a bigger command. There are a lot of chicken and egg sort of things going on, but being made a captain reflects that SIsko has earned trust that wasn't there in season one.

 

[somebuddyX]

Commander Quinteros commander Starbase 74, the first space station we saw in the 24th Century, so Sisko being a commander and commanding DS9 sounded normal to me.
I like the idea that after two years at Utopia Planitia designing the Defiant that Leyton thought it might do his old XO some good to go somewhere new and try and find some perspective. If they wormhole wasn't discovered then it mightn't have done any good and Sisko would have retired but at least he'd tried.
It feels normal to me that even with the introduction of the wormhole and then the Dominion Starfleet would leave Sisko in charge of the station if they feel he is doing a good job. There was probably always some Admiral overseeing the sector Bajor was in or closest to

 

[Tosk]

The first conversation between Picard and Sisko makes it seem that Sisko was not being seen as a policy maker when it came to Bajoran affairs. He was assigned to implement it.

Once again I will quote Picard from that conversation.

"Your job is to do everything short of violating the Prime Directive to make sure that they are."

That sounds like Sisko has plenty of latitude to me. Sisko can do literally anything he wants except to break Starfleet's general order number 1.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Once again I will quote Picard from that conversation.

"Your job is to do everything short of violating the Prime Directive to make sure that they are."

That sounds like Sisko has plenty of latitude to me. Sisko can do literally anything he wants except to break Starfleet's general order number 1.

So Sisko can shift Bajor away from membership if he chooses? Can he make independent efforts to pursue negotiates between Bajor and Cardassia?

When Picard says "Your job," he is saying this is what you must do. Just because Picard doesn't limit the tools he can use mean that Sisko can affect policy.

 

[Tosk]

So Sisko can shift Bajor away from membership if he chooses?

Obviously not, that's the opposite of the task at hand. The "to make sure that they are" refers to Bajor being readied for joining the Federation.

But of course, Sisko does indeed end up pushing Bajor away from joining later in the series. At that point, his position as Emissary is said to be the only reason the Admiral didn't pull him from his post.

Just because Picard doesn't limit the tools he can use mean that Sisko can affect policy.

It also doesn't say that he can't. You said that the scene made it seem that he can't, and that's what I was arguing with.

If I've misinterpreted you or the scene I apologize.

 

[Timo]

Commander Quinteros commander Starbase 74, the first space station we saw in the 24th Century, so Sisko being a commander and commanding DS9 sounded normal to me.

Quinteros wasn't actually specified to be in command of SB74. He just happened to be the go-to guy for the computer maintenance and refit Picard went to get. A floating city like that would probably warrant a flag officer in charge, in addition to hosting potential others. Heck, even the place TOS-R labeled as SB6, a teeny weeny space office, had a Commodore in residence, and another to spare for wargames.

There was probably always some Admiral overseeing the sector Bajor was in or closest to

Indeed, we got two recurring characters of that nature - Rollman and Ross, each with a starbase to their name. But Bajor was not in Federation space, or immediately bordering on such, so the oversight was from a welcome distance, from the dramatic point of view.

Once again I will quote Picard from that conversation.

"Your job is to do everything short of violating the Prime Directive to make sure that they are."

That sounds like Sisko has plenty of latitude to me. Sisko can do literally anything he wants except to break Starfleet's general order number 1.

And since Picard is there to give this speech, I get the impression this is his personal crusade there, rather than Sisko's original Starfleet orders which Picard wouldn't need to repeat. "You were sent here because Starfleet doesn't care. Well, I care. No matter what you think you were supposed to achieve here, achieve this. For me, and for Bajor."

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Farscape One]

So in essence, Picard was the emissary to the Emissary.

I guess that makes Captain Picard... the Pre-missary.

 

[somebuddyX]

Quinteros wasn't actually specified to be in command of SB74. He just happened to be the go-to guy for the computer maintenance and refit Picard went to get. A floating city like that would probably warrant a flag officer in charge, in addition to hosting potential others. Heck, even the place TOS-R labeled as SB6, a teeny weeny space office, had a Commodore in residence, and another to spare for wargames.

That's a good point and I just noticed Memory Alpha says in the first draft he was called "Maintenance Supervisor Tully" so was definitely not intended to be starbase commander there.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

I agree that Quinteros was probably not the Commanding Officer of Starbase 74, he did seem to be in day-to-day command as "portmaster" (the title given to red-shirt commodore Stone's command functions on Starbase 11, as opposed to Commodore Mendez who may have been the strategic commander for the sector rather than just the base itself), so probably holds "chief of staff" (vis executive officer or fleet captain) to a "flag officer, commanding" based on the starbase.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

But of course, Sisko does indeed end up pushing Bajor away from joining later in the series. At that point, his position as Emissary is said to be the only reason the Admiral didn't pull him from his post.

It reflects a maturing of Sisko and a greater amount of trust that SF has in him, something not reflected in the pilot. They take his opinion about the future of Bajor and the rejection of the current deal seriously even after his Prophet-induced visions. In previous seasons, Sisko doesn't get to interpret the situation and make bold plans based on what he wants, such as in The Siege. In order to do what he thinks is best, Sisko disobeys SF.

It also doesn't say that he can't. You said that the scene made it seem that he can't, and that's what I was arguing with.

The policy is that the mission to Bajor is working towards admission. Sisko questions whether or not it is possible, but then Picard tells him to focus on the task. Sisko cannot at this point recommend that Bajor is a poor candidate for membership.

If I've misinterpreted you or the scene I apologize.

Perhaps.