Why was voyager so in love with the reset button?

[Anwar]

DS9 averaged about a 6% Nielsen rating despite being a syndicated program same as TNG (Which averaged around 11%), and it ultimately dropped to 4%. That's a 7% decrease from the predecessor rating, and VOY managed a usual 5% Nielsen rating despite being on a lousy network not everyone got.

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.tv/msg/d9c5f203a58367cd?dmode=source&output=gplain

 

[Tachyon]

I observe Niners getting a little defensive...

 

[Unimatrix 01]

So... I'm going to take a gander off Chakotay's psydo-baby and back to the original topic

I recentelly watched an episode (S7, Flesh and Blood) where the Doctor deliberately breaks a direct order from Janeway and in the end she blames herself for letting him expand his program and he gets NO punishment.

I was angry. The way I see it, when Tom got thrown in the brig he was fighting for something he cared in (while disobeying a direct order), just like the Doc. Did Janeway look at Tom and say, "Oh well I let you be an individual, so I am partly at fault."?? No, she just punished him.

Am I wrong here?

 

[Anwar]

Of course, we have to take into account that there were no other medical officers as trained as the Doctor available on VOY. He likely got off because they couldn't afford to punish him (how do you punish the Doctor anyways?). Sad and unfair, but believable.

 

[TheGodBen]

DS9 averaged about a 6% Nielsen rating despite being a syndicated program same as TNG (Which averaged around 11%), and it ultimately dropped to 4%. That's a 7% decrease from the predecessor rating, and VOY managed a usual 5% Nielsen rating despite being on a lousy network not everyone got.

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.tv/msg/d9c5f203a58367cd?dmode=source&output=gplain

For somebody who admires the "enlightened" human beings you yourself appear to be very economical of the truth, but at least you attempted to post a link this time.

We know from various interviews with the producers that a fourth Star Trek series was being planned during during TNG's final season, and in this RDM interview we can see that by the time of Journey's End the concept of Voyager and the Maquis had already been approved. Clearly discussions on a fourth Trek series had been going on for months at that point, they must have begun during the middle of TNG's season 7 at the very latest.

That would have been in the middle of DS9's second season, so what were the ratings like for DS9 then? According to your own ratings link, DS9 was averaging around 9% of the audience to TNG's 11.5%. Considering how huge a success TNG was for Paramount, DS9 managing 80% of that audience is hardly an indication that the show was losing money. It seems to me that DS9 was making a healthy profit even if it wasn't printing money like TNG was.

So do you accept that your original claim that Voyager was created in order to recoup money being lost on DS9 was erroneous?

I observe Niners getting a little defensive...

I have promised that I will confront Anwar whenever I see him post unsupportable nonsense on this board, I'm just living up to my promises.

 

[Anwar]

By that very link, by the time 1995 came rolling around (When VOY started) DS9's ratings were down to the 6.9 and dropping range meaning it was now only 50% of TNG. VOY may have been in development before that but the decision to air it then and to promote it and make it more episodic was likely influenced by that drop (DS9 went from the 8.0 range and through the entire 7.0 range down to the 6s in about a month). DS9 was losing money by the time VOY started which influenced decision about that series.

 

[TheGodBen]

Dear lords...

TV shows like Star Trek take a long time to create, plans for DS9 were famously being put together before Roddenberry died a full year before it aired, Brannon Braga quit his role as EP on Voyager for the final season so that he could focus on creating Enterprise. Voyager was being planned a full year ahead of its launch because Paramount wanted a new Trek show to act as the flagship for their new network UPN, they didn't use DS9 because that was doing well in syndication at that point and they didn't want to disrupt that.

Are you honestly suggesting that they pushed up Voyager's launch because of DS9's falling ratings? Even though Voyager was planned to be the first show to air on UPN? You're suggesting that Paramount was so freaked out by DS9 losing viewers that they pushed forward the launch of an entire television network?

Dear lords.

 

[Bertie]

I don't remember ever reading anything about Voyager's budget (not the ratings — the cost) compared with that of the previous two series (about which there is some budget data that made it to the public). Perhaps this is because VOY was a vertically-integrated show produced by the same company that owned the TV station on which it aired while the other two were not, but at any rate, without such information it is hard to get very far with speculation based on presumed budget cuts.

 

[Praetorian]

Lower ratings does not necessarely means losing money. It could mean making less money. And that certanly was the case.
Again, if DS9 was losing money it would have been canceled straight away!

P.S.

I'm not a Niner and you can bet I'm defensive about unfounded afirmations. If someone said that Voyager was making Paramount lose money you can bet I would call bs on that...

 

[Tuxedo Dragon]

Lower ratings does not necessarely means losing money. It could mean making less money. And that certanly was the case.
Again, if DS9 was losing money it would have been canceled straight away!

P.S.

I'm not a Niner and you can bet I'm defensive about unfounded afirmations. If someone said that Voyager was making Paramount lose money you can bet I would call bs on that...

Not neccessarly. Shows that have a track record or have people in high places behind them can aviod cancellation. Star Trek was still a hugely successful brand. It made sense to try and make DS9 work. And its probably easier to stay alive in Syndication then on a Network. Of course on UPN, they would have been on the Network owned by their parent company. Enterprise was cancelled because the studio knew that it was time to give Star Trek a rest.

 

[exodus]

Seriously, did any other series even rival voyagers use of the reset button? Im watching S4 again and just finished Unforgettable. Damn it seems every other episode involves a reset button.

Easy, Voyager was the only show in the Trek franchiese that takes place outside the Alpha Quad. So it had the freedom to do "What If" stories without upsetting the continuity of the rest. Once you look at it that way, I don't think Voyager's continuity flaws really matter so much. At least IMO.

 

[Anwar]

Dear lords...

TV shows like Star Trek take a long time to create, plans for DS9 were famously being put together before Roddenberry died a full year before it aired, Brannon Braga quit his role as EP on Voyager for the final season so that he could focus on creating Enterprise. Voyager was being planned a full year ahead of its launch because Paramount wanted a new Trek show to act as the flagship for their new network UPN, they didn't use DS9 because that was doing well in syndication at that point and they didn't want to disrupt that.

Are you honestly suggesting that they pushed up Voyager's launch because of DS9's falling ratings? Even though Voyager was planned to be the first show to air on UPN? You're suggesting that Paramount was so freaked out by DS9 losing viewers that they pushed forward the launch of an entire television network?

Dear lords.

It was influenced by that, yes. And UPN existed beforehand, just not with a flagship show.

 

[exodus]

Lower ratings does not necessarely means losing money. It could mean making less money. And that certanly was the case.
Again, if DS9 was losing money it would have been canceled straight away!

P.S.

I'm not a Niner and you can bet I'm defensive about unfounded afirmations. If someone said that Voyager was making Paramount lose money you can bet I would call bs on that...

Next time you watch a lower rated show, watch the commercial sponcers. The fewer commercial rotation and lack of big name product indorsement is a sign that the show has a low or declining budget.

 

[Praetorian]

Lower ratings does not necessarely means losing money. It could mean making less money. And that certanly was the case.
Again, if DS9 was losing money it would have been canceled straight away!

P.S.

I'm not a Niner and you can bet I'm defensive about unfounded afirmations. If someone said that Voyager was making Paramount lose money you can bet I would call bs on that...

Not neccessarly. Shows that have a track record or have people in high places behind them can aviod cancellation. Star Trek was still a hugely successful brand. It made sense to try and make DS9 work. And its probably easier to stay alive in Syndication then on a Network. Of course on UPN, they would have been on the Network owned by their parent company. Enterprise was cancelled because the studio knew that it was time to give Star Trek a rest.

True... As I have said before, I've heard that nuBSG was made at a loss because of the prestige it gave to the Sci-Fi channel. I don't think DS9 was giving any prestige to Paramount and wasn't DS9 the highest rated sindication show? Don't know how much that meant in the 90's but still...

In any event, I've never seen any indication or proof that DS9 was loosing money and that Voyager was made to make up for that.
The production values on Voyager were excelent for the most part anyway...

 

[Akiraprise]

Guys this is not the thread to get into a pissing match over DS9 vs VOY and both shows subsequent ratings slide. Thanks...

 

[TheGodBen]

Guys this is not the thread to get into a pissing match over DS9 vs VOY and both shows subsequent ratings slide. Thanks...

I apologise for assisting in dragging this thread off-topic, but can I just correct one thing about Voyager?

It was influenced by that, yes. And UPN existed beforehand, just not with a flagship show.

UPN on Wikipedia

UPN launched January 16, 1995... The first telecast, the two-hour pilot of Star Trek: Voyager, was an auspiciously widely viewed start.

Star Trek Voyager on Memory Alpha

Star Trek: Voyager is the fourth live-action Star Trek series. It was created by Rick Berman, Michael Piller and Jeri Taylor, and ran on UPN (as UPN's first ever series) for seven seasons in the USA, from 1995 to 2001.

Look Anwar, I have absolutely no problem with somebody who loves Voyager, and the reset button mentality of the show (see, I'm on topic ) is a perfectly legitimate stylistic choice employed by many popular shows. But please, stop making things up.

 

[SonicRanger]

UPN existed beforehand, just not with a flagship show.

Are you kidding? The first show aired ever on UPN was VOY's pilot episode.

 

[Anwar]

Really, must have been watching some other channel then for a bit that got replaced by UPN before VOY aired. Oh well.

 

[exodus]

Really, must have been watching some other channel then for a bit that got replaced by UPN before VOY aired. Oh well.

Where I live it used to simply be Channel 9.

 

[Anwar]

That was probably it. I didn't really start to care about that sort of network stuff until 5 or so years ago.