Why was Sulu played off as a normal person but Chekov as a caricature?

[Amaris]

Re: Why was Sulu played off as a normal person but Chekov as a caricat

I was in high school when Chekov was introduced and I didn't like the character at all. All the "Russia this, Russia that" stuff didn't help either. He felt like a comic relief character to me, and was as out of place as Earl Holliman's Cook in Forbidden Planet. No problems with Walter though. I liked Sulu better, perhaps because he was there first.

Yeah, Earl Holliman's "Cookie" was a bit over the top for me, just as Chekov is a bit over the top. Unfortunately for Koenig, who is awesome, that stereotype stuck with him well into the movies.

 

[Redfern]

Re: Why was Sulu played off as a normal person but Chekov as a caricat

Poor ol' Cookie. I guess being "locked up in hyperspace for 378 days" really got to him. What does he say upon seeing Robby? "Hey Doc'. Is it a male or a female?"
Was he actually considering, ahem, "it" if Ostro had confirmed a gender?!
Whoa! Talk about "hard up" for some "companionship"!

Sincerely,

Bill

 

[BoredShipCapt'n]

Re: Why was Sulu played off as a normal person but Chekov as a caricat

The cast of MST3K once paid tribute to Earl Holliman, calling him "a man who would have been William Shatner had there not already been one."

 

[Amaris]

Re: Why was Sulu played off as a normal person but Chekov as a caricat

Poor ol' Cookie. I guess being "locked up in hyperspace for 378 days" really got to him. What does he say upon seeing Robby? "Hey Doc'. Is it a male or a female?"
Was he actually considering, ahem, "it" if Ostro had confirmed a gender?!
Whoa! Talk about "hard up" for some "companionship"!

Sincerely,

Bill

Yeah, that was a rather odd first question.

 

[scotpens]

Re: Why was Sulu played off as a normal person but Chekov as a caricat

Poor ol' Cookie. I guess being "locked up in hyperspace for 378 days" really got to him. What does he say upon seeing Robby? "Hey Doc'. Is it a male or a female?"
Was he actually considering, ahem, "it" if Ostro had confirmed a gender?!

I think it was more just simple curiosity on Cookie's part. After all, he'd probably never met a sentient robot before.

IIRC, Robby's reply was, "In my case, sir, the question is totally without meaning." But is it? Robby speaks in a deep masculine voice, he's immensely strong, and he looks pretty butch (for a robot)!

Now back to our regularly scheduled topic . . .

 

[Nerys Myk]

Re: Why was Sulu played off as a normal person but Chekov as a caricat

George Takei, a Japanese American actor, requested to not play a stereotype or caricature of a member of his own ethnicity.

Perhaps Walter Koenig, a white American actor simply did not make such a request since his character was not of the same ethnicity as himself? Some people simply have more difficulty or get more offended at playing a caricature of their own ethnic group than that of a different ethic group.

Especially when that ethnic group being mocked are those damn dirty Commies.

I was under the impression Koenig's parents were Russian Jews. Or does that not count as being "Russian'?

Was Chekov a caricature of a Russian? He's usually shown to be young, eager and a little impulsive. Are those traits associated with Russians? He's more of a caricature of youth. There is the accent, but is it any worse than Scotty's? His pride in Russia and its accomplishments is exaggerated for affect, but its no worse that Spock's wry comments about humans.

Sulu on the other hand is mostly a cipher, who does and says what the script demands. Takei makes the most of it though, through his voice and mannerisms.

 

[xvicente]

Re: Why was Sulu played off as a normal person but Chekov as a caricat

Ceti Eels are the worst parasite in the galaxy. Once they enter the victim's cranium, they proceed to EAT the cerebral cortex bringing madness...and death. It's unavoidable.

... except with Chekov. Displaying behavior uncharateristic for the species, the little arthropod crawled OUT of his ear.

Probably in hunger, having found nothing inside.

In the next movie Chekov fell from a nuclear wessel several stories high -- and didn't die. why? Luckily, he fell on his head.

Those were traumatic events, but before all that he already demonstrated he can't count up to 6. And he cant tell a group of genetically enhanced superhumans from a particle preanimated matter with a Dynoscanner.

Now tell me he isn't retard, canon retard.

 

[Armored Saint]

Re: Why was Sulu played off as a normal person but Chekov as a caricat

Was Chekov a caricature of a Russian? He's usually shown to be young, eager and a little impulsive. Are those traits associated with Russians? He's more of a caricature of youth. There is the accent, but is it any worse than Scotty's? His pride in Russia and its accomplishments is exaggerated for affect, but its no worse that Spock's wry comments about humans.

I was also going to point the fact he was "the kid". His Russian patriotism is not so far than his attitude toward Korax badmouthing HIS Captain Kirk. He has good moments in the movies, but the writer forgot to create a 40-year-old Chekov and instead continued to use the 22-year-old version.

 

[Redfern]

Re: Why was Sulu played off as a normal person but Chekov as a caricat

I think it was more just simple curiosity on Cookie's part. After all, he'd probably never met a sentient robot before.

Oh, I realize that was the intent and in 1956, certainly there was no "hidden" meaning. I just like to see things from the absurdist perspective on occasion.

I've literally been waiting years to make my silly observation and this looked like my best setup to spring it.

Sincerely,

Bill

 

[Pauln6]

Re: Why was Sulu played off as a normal person but Chekov as a caricat

I agree that the issue was the group dynamic. Brain damage in STII could be why Chekov was such a dunderhead in the later movies. I liked sulu though, he got a lot of decent lines in the early episodes, showing a smart, tactical mind, and a lot of common sense. Scotty, Rand, and Uhura also had a fair amount of comic scenes early on. Maybe it was just because Rand left, and Uhura became rather stoic that Chekov's one-note comic turns stand out so much.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Re: Why was Sulu played off as a normal person but Chekov as a caricat

On a side note, and I realize that the show's famous for getting many distinguished Trek alumni, one reason why I dislike the Big Bang Theory is because Raj is often the target of just so much microaggression from other characters, and when he complains, they handwave it and dismiss it, as if his experiences don't really count (unless, of course, it's a Raj-centric episode).

I don't see that at all. Among the five core characters, I think every one of them receives microagression from all the others, and dishes it out in kind.

 

[Lance]

Re: Why was Sulu played off as a normal person but Chekov as a caricat

Kirk assaulted Rand in one episode, I also think Riker assaulted Troi when he devolved. Of course there was that infamous episode in VOY where Paris kidnapped and made babies with Janeway.

Now now, I think that's a bit of a stretch. Yes, Lizard!Paris kidnapped his captain. But we haven't really got any reason for assuming that she didn't have those babies willingly, after having already evolved into a salamander herself.

Mind you, that's one heck of a case of Stockholm Syndrome that Captain Kathryn was exhibiting right there.

 

[Green Shirt]

Re: Why was Sulu played off as a normal person but Chekov as a caricat

dunderhead

A seldom used word, I've only ever heard it used before by Thurston Howell III.

 

[Vandervecken]

Re: Why was Sulu played off as a normal person but Chekov as a caricat

The cast of MST3K once paid tribute to Earl Holliman, calling him "a man who would have been William Shatner had there not already been one."

In their sendup of "Attack of the Eye Creatures". I swear I really couldn't get my breath on that one. I was laughing so hard I thought I was going to pass out. It's on Youtube like most of them.

 

[BoredShipCapt'n]

Re: Why was Sulu played off as a normal person but Chekov as a caricat

Ah, yes. Right here: LINK

 

[sonak]

Re: Why was Sulu played off as a normal person but Chekov as a caricat

They also made him assault Mara in Day of the Dove, making him him both attempted rapist and torturee in the same episode.

Kirk assaulted Rand in one episode, I also think Riker assaulted Troi when he devolved. Of course there was that infamous episode in VOY where Paris kidnapped and made babies with Janeway. OK its getting too ugly now.
Look I now realise I seem to be defending men assaulting women but its not OK under any circumstances. The only thing that mitigates it somewhat is that in all of those circumstances the the men were under the influence of something.

Beverly Crusher slept with Will Riker when he was possessed by Odan and hence couldn't give consent to her. Trek has been less than enlightened with regard to both genders some times.

 

[Redfern]

Re: Why was Sulu played off as a normal person but Chekov as a caricat

Here's a site that provides links to all the currently available streaming media.

It's separated by seasons and listed in production order.

http://www.club-mst3k.com/

If a link becomes no longer valid, the site is pretty quick to find a replacement.

I had seen only the Sci-Fi Channel era and maybe 3 from the Comedy Central episodes (and the movie) before I discovered this site. Last weekend, I finally "caught up" by watching the last CC segment, "LaserBlast".

For MSTie fans, this is a "must have" site!

Now, back to our regularly scheduled thread.

Sincerely,

Bill

 

[Armored Saint]

Re: Why was Sulu played off as a normal person but Chekov as a caricat

Brain damage in STII could be why Chekov was such a dunderhead in the later movies.

I don't think major long-term damage is a plausible explanation. Despite his goofyness in the subsequent movies, there's no indication of that...and it would made his goofyness quite sinister.

At least, he got the Bones part in Generations, so his last cannon appearance shown him as mature and qualified. In Star Trek V, he didn't did a bad job when he had the bridge, but his authority crisis was really kiddy. You have no authority. ...What's going on here? For the phaser scene in STVI, we can point in his defense that either Scotty didn't know about the security device...despite he was the chief engineer.

 

[Alrik]

Re: Why was Sulu played off as a normal person but Chekov as a caricat

Anyone have any idea of why this discrepancy?

I can't remember if I read it, or if it came from an interview from long ago. As I remember, the character of Chekov was created to please the suits. They wanted a young 'mop-top' that young guys could identify with, and that the teeny-bop girls would swoon for. GR finally said fine, he's Russian. IIRC, the suits were not very pleased at first, but GR insisted that the US was currently in the middle of a space race with the Russians and that Star Trek takes place long after WW III, with world peace and all, it would only make sense that there be a Russian as a member of the bridge crew. The suits finally agreed and they both got their way. I wish I could remember where I came across that little tidbit.

 

[Timewalker]

Re: Why was Sulu played off as a normal person but Chekov as a caricat

So the "Pravda story" is just a story?