Why was Sisko Mad at Pickard

[Marie1]

Sisko would have felt odd about meeting Picard, but the latter's reaction probably made the situation worse. An offer to discuss it at a later date, a reminder of the situation, maybe even an apology given Sisko's reaction would have worked... instead Picard just went on with business in a way that seemed dismissive.

 

[DWF]

Sisko would have felt odd about meeting Picard, but the latter's reaction probably made the situation worse. An offer to discuss it at a later date, a reminder of the situation, maybe even an apology given Sisko's reaction would have worked... instead Picard just went on with business in a way that seemed dismissive.

I thought Picard was very affected by Sisko's words and like Picard's brother told he'd either have to face what he did and try to deal with it in space or under the sea. I also think Picard didn't put though Sisko's request because he realized it was his anger that was speaking at that point in time and that he might change his mind which he did eventually.

 

[Triskelion]

It was a tribute to Picard's diplomatic skill, and human guilt, to allow himself to be castigated by a subordinate officer. Had Sisko touched him, the commander could have been court martialed and lost everything he'd worked for his entire life. Sisko was smart enough not to act on his anger - but he was going to express it plainly.

But then, if it hadn't been for Picard, the human race wouldn't even be around. It was he who ultimately found enough control to give Data the information needed to defeat the attack on Earth after 359, and defeat the Borg the same way they had defeated the defense forces - with insider information. Sisko needed a focus for his anger - but the Picard was hardly an appropriate choice, considering his own career ambitions.

I thought the hostility was unfair and unwarranted, given what Sisko would have known about the Borg.

Also, one thing I like about Star Trek's depiction of future human behavior is the calmness with which officers face disasters. For example, when the ship's about to explode, they walk briskly - they don't run for their lives. They stay cool under pressure. They also listen to each other.

Picard knew he'd never get off the Borg cube but would likely be rendered unconscious or dead if he resisted. It's all very cool, calm and refined.

 

[Sheliak]

The Captain of a starship should never threaten the Commander of a starbase.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

The Captain of a starship should never threaten the Commander of a starbase.

Under normal circumstances, definitely not. Of course, DS9 wasn't exactly in fighting condition at the time.

(But that really isn't relevant to whether Sisko had a right to go off on Picard...)

 

[Marie1]

I'm sure Sisko understands the Borg, and Picard's situation... but imagine being faced with the person who caused your wife's death!

I think they both showed remarkable control, and a fist-fight would've been a bad idea. But as two grown men, they probably should have discussed what happened a bit at some point- for the psychological benefits, perhaps. I'm not sure Sisko is "mad at Picard" but he's faced with a sort of face for what happened.

 

[Cyke101]

I can't speak to what Sisko would be going through as I've (thankfully) never lost a loved one as he has,but Sisko would be justified in being angry towards Picard.

As stated above,Picard put himself in a situation that resulted in him being compromised.And the consequences were the deaths of hundreds at Wolf 359.

I know this is Star Trek and that Picard didn't understand what he was getting into,but in any other organization Sisko wouldn't be speaking to Picard,unless it was a prison visit.

That's not to say Picard is not a capable or intelligent commander,but that incident honestly should have caused at minimum a courts-martial to be convened.

Which should be all the more reason for Sisko to be pissed off.

How is that Picard's fault? Drones beamed onto the ship and abducted him, he was clearly zapped with something from the one that took him. When he got to the Borg ship, he was clearly under guard so what was he supposed to do? It's not like he surrendered himself when the Borg first told him they wanted him.

I think Silversmoke has a point about court-martial. After all, a court-martial is sometimes mandatory in some situations, even when it's clear that the person in question did no wrong. A court-martial isn't punishment, it's more of an examination of the facts, and had Picard been court-martialed for Wolf 359, he probably would've been cleared of all charges. The fact that the real-life writers forgot to court-martial Picard would be a genius way to set off fictional Sisko's ire into genuine territory.

After all, Picard was court-martialed for losing the Stargazer, as is standard procedure whenever a ship is lost, and Starfleet declared Picard a hero as a result of the questioning.

 

[Can]

If you read novelization of Emissary written by J.M. Dillard at the end you find out that Sisko realizing he was unjustly harsh and rude towards Picard. He recognizes that both he and Picard were victims of Borg in different sense. In fact Sisko was even a little bit ashamed of his earlier behavior towards captain of USS Enterprise-D

 

[Triskelion]

Before Court Martial is an Inquiry to see if a formal hearing is required. Obviously Picard's never got beyond the more informal inquiry stage; which is to say, there was no story there, but it all likely happened in the wings rather than center stage.

 

[Infern0]

I thought Sisko should have grown up, as a starfleet officer he should have known better than to blame Picard.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

I thought Sisko should have grown up, as a starfleet officer he should have known better than to blame Picard.

Being rational in a time of grief is harder than it seems. But since he did come around at the end, I find it understandable.

 

[PKTrekGirl]

Come on....

This is the same as being mystified as to why someone would be angry at the driver of a car who killed their wife in a car wreck.

Even if they didn't mean it, they STILL did it. And a soul in deep grief is hardly capable of rationally separating the action from the person who committed that action.

The great thing about DS9 is that the characters are REAL. They are HUMAN. They are not perfect individuals whose every thought and feeling is scripted to make them sound like they are gods to the outside observer.

Picard, as Locutus, killed Jennifer. And additionally, Picard shares a large part of the responsibility for the Borg being in contact with the AQ races to begin with, remember?

It's not really all that far off to say that if Picard had not gone after the Borg to begin with, the Federation would not have met up with them for centuries. Doesn't Q say something like that, at one point?

And if that is the case, add Locutus into the mix and it would be a tough survivor of Wolf-359 indeed who would just let Picard off the hook without a single thought of breaking his little pencil-like neck.

 

[DWF]

Picard, as Locutus, killed Jennifer. And additionally, Picard shares a large part of the responsibility for the Borg being in contact with the AQ races to begin with, remember?

It's not really all that far off to say that if Picard had not gone after the Borg to begin with, the Federation would not have met up with them for centuries. Doesn't Q say something like that, at one point?

Neither Picard nor Locutus killed Jennifer, the Borg did and Picard had no control over his actions or the actions of the Borg. And Picard didn't go after the Borg, they went after him to be their spokesperson.

 

[Marie1]

^ Didn't he kindof in that he was a Borg, and the Borg are all connected in a hive mind as one? Then again, I don't think Locutus had any special rank within the Borg, he was just a drone wasn't he?

 

[The Grim Ghost]

The Borg and Q were responsible for Jennifer's death. Picard had nothing to do with it. Picard didn't go out "looking for the Borg". Q showed up and was being a dick as usual, and sent them there to teach them one of his lessons.

 

[TheGodBen]

Re: Why was Sisko Mad at Picard

The Borg and Q were responsible for Jennifer's death. Picard had nothing to do with it. Picard didn't go out "looking for the Borg". Q showed up and was being a dick as usual, and sent them there to teach them one of his lessons.

I actually registered here just to correct you on this. You seem to have missed the entire point of "Q Who?"

Picard was arrogant and told Q that he didn't need his help as they were ready to meet whatever they would encounter in space. Q flung them thousands of light-years away to put that assertion to the test. Guinan warned them to head home immediately as this region of space was dangerous. Picard ignored her warning and started exploring the area. The Borg cube showed up. Guinan warned Picard that they are very dangerous and cannot be reasoned with. Picard disregarded her and tried to communicate with the Borg. The Borg kicked the Enterprise's ass and Picard realised he was being arrogant and begged Q to send them home. At the end of the episode Picard realised that the Borg would be coming for them now and it was all because he was too arrogant.

These events led to the Borg attack at Wolf 359 which killed 11,000 people, including Jennifer. So even if we ignore the fact that Picard was one of the Borg on the ship which killed all those people, he was still responsible for the ship being there in the first place.

Sisko had the right to be pissed at him.

 

[DWF]

Re: Why was Sisko Mad at Picard

The Borg and Q were responsible for Jennifer's death. Picard had nothing to do with it. Picard didn't go out "looking for the Borg". Q showed up and was being a dick as usual, and sent them there to teach them one of his lessons.

I actually registered here just to correct you on this. You seem to have missed the entire point of "Q Who?"

Picard was arrogant and told Q that he didn't need his help as they were ready to meet whatever they would encounter in space. Q flung them thousands of light-years away to put that assertion to the test. Guinan warned them to head home immediately as this region of space was dangerous. Picard ignored her warning and started exploring the area. The Borg cube showed up. Guinan warned Picard that they are very dangerous and cannot be reasoned with. Picard disregarded her and tried to communicate with the Borg. The Borg kicked the Enterprise's ass and Picard realised he was being arrogant and begged Q to send them home. At the end of the episode Picard realised that the Borg would be coming for them now and it was all because he was too arrogant.

These events led to the Borg attack at Wolf 359 which killed 11,000 people, including Jennifer. So even if we ignore the fact that Picard was one of the Borg on the ship which killed all those people, he was still responsible for the ship being there in the first place.

Sisko had the right to be pissed at him.

Picard merely said they were ready to deal with what's out there, it was Q who force their first encounter with the Borg and the Federation didn't take the threat seriously. Q just wanted Picard to admit that he needed Q and Picard did that, if he hadn't the Federation would never have known about the Borg. Of course after the events in Genreations the Federation should've known about the Borg years before Picard was even born. In the end Sisko needed to move beyond his pain and live in the here and now, it was after that, that he was able to forgive Picard and it showed in the end of the pilot.

 

[TheGodBen]

Re: Why was Sisko Mad at Picard

Picard merely said they were ready to deal with what's out there, it was Q who force their first encounter with the Borg and the Federation didn't take the threat seriously. Q just wanted Picard to admit that he needed Q and Picard did that, if he hadn't the Federation would never have known about the Borg.

Q did not force the encounter with the Borg, Q merely put them into the situation where it was possible that they would encounter them early. If Picard hadn't been so arrogant and had listened to Guinan when she warned him to leave and head back to the Federation then they would not have encountered the Borg prematurely.

That was the point of the episode, that Picard was unwilling to accept that there are some dangers in the galaxy that humans aren't ready for until it was too late. That was the message that Q was trying to give him; your arrogance will get you into trouble. Picard disregarded Q and Guinan's warning and because of that 18 crewmen died in that encounter, and 11,000 people died when the Borg attacked a year later.

Sisko was being unfair to blame Picard in Emissary, I agree, and the point of the episode was that Sisko had to put his grief behind him and move on. But Picard is ultimately responsible for the attack.

 

[jamestyler]

Re: Why was Sisko Mad at Picard

Sisko had the right to be pissed at him.

I think theres an argument for that, as well as an argument for Picards side too, but it's never about right and wrong - just about the feeling.

Picard felt guilt for those that died while he was Borg. He knows control was taken away from him and he was a fleshy puppet, but the humanity in his still feels guilt. Sisko could know the same, but he'd still feel anger.

You can say the 24th century is more enlightened in Trekland, but better ideals will never overrule natural reactions and emotion. They may give a different perspective, allow you to be more controlled but the emotion will always be there.

 

[Cyke101]

Before Court Martial is an Inquiry to see if a formal hearing is required. Obviously Picard's never got beyond the more informal inquiry stage; which is to say, there was no story there, but it all likely happened in the wings rather than center stage.

In Starfleet, it's standard procedure to undergo a court martial if a captain loses a ship for whatever circumstance. I'm willing to bet that, naturally, the vast majority of these court martials find the captain not at fault.

And if it's standard procedure after one ship is lost, shouldn't it be after 39 ships are lost?

As for the topic at hand, I really like the comparison of losing someone by car accident, especially if the accident was caused by mechanical failure despite all the efforts of the driver to prevent it. In such a case, the driver still feels immense guilt and it would be quite natural for the person's relatives to blame the driver.