Why was Mulgrew so polarizing?
- Thread starter Captain Worf
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That may also be why she's more polarizing. Some women are going to say, "Hooray! Woman in command!" and be predisposed to like her simply because of that fact, while others are going to be more critical of her because of it: if she's going to be a captain, she gets held to a higher standard. (If you're going to be our standard-bearer, you'd better darn well be the best standard-bearer we've ever seen!) Not saying it's right, just that I think it happens.
If some alternate-"man"-Captain-of-Voyager had been in kathy's place and also decided to murder Tuvix, that would be also how I would define that captain of Voyager.
Ask around, Sisko is defined by Punching Q because he's not Picard.
Kathryn's relationship with this entity was as first an executioner, then a womb, and then a babysitter... Three aspects I'm sure Picard and Sisko might not have sunk to.
Ask around, Sisko is defined by Punching Q because he's not Picard.
Kathryn's relationship with this entity was as first an executioner, then a womb, and then a babysitter... Three aspects I'm sure Picard and Sisko might not have sunk to.
Thats true only to the extent that she was forced to be a "standard bearer" instead of simply a good captain. Sisko did not have that problem precisely because the wrtiters did not want to do a show about a "black" captain. Nor is he held up by fans as some sort of representation of black people. DS9 fans simply did not focus on his race. They focused on the fact that he was a badass religious figure who could kick ass and take names while at the same time be a dad, a friend, a husband and brother in arms.
One of the biggest problems that I had with Janeway was the fact that they made her a "mother figure." They stereotyped her right out the gate. None of the other captains were depicted as being parental to their crew. They could be their boss, friend, mentor, brother in arms....but none of the other crews treated their captain like they were a parent. So it seemed odd that they bring on a female lead, and suddenly the captain is transformed from military commander, chief diplomat, and scientists....to mother hen.
^Honestly, I think the Janeway character was the most hurt by Jeri Taylor leaving the show to Brannon Braga.
Jeri Taylor (Tyler?) developed a wonderful backstory for Janeway and portrayed her as a strong, sexy, confident woman.
Remember when she and Chakotay had all the chemistry? It could have been like Mulder and Scully!
But once Seven of Nine became Janeway's pet project she stopped being that person and turned into granny Janeway. More interested in grooming Seven and hooking her up with Chakotay and resigning herself to boring holo-lovers.
She also became a mama to other characters and wouldn't even let Harry Kim lose his virginity to some alien babes of the week. Or she would tut-tut Belanna and Paris about their relationship. What the hell happened to her?
Braga seems to think a woman in command cannot also have an interesting love life. And he seemed to see Janeway as some sort of prude.
Contrast Janeway to Major Kira... who was fiesty and take charge and still able to have adult relationships. Janeway did no favors to the feminist movement, IMO.
Jeri Taylor (Tyler?) developed a wonderful backstory for Janeway and portrayed her as a strong, sexy, confident woman.
Remember when she and Chakotay had all the chemistry? It could have been like Mulder and Scully!
But once Seven of Nine became Janeway's pet project she stopped being that person and turned into granny Janeway. More interested in grooming Seven and hooking her up with Chakotay and resigning herself to boring holo-lovers.
She also became a mama to other characters and wouldn't even let Harry Kim lose his virginity to some alien babes of the week. Or she would tut-tut Belanna and Paris about their relationship. What the hell happened to her?
Braga seems to think a woman in command cannot also have an interesting love life. And he seemed to see Janeway as some sort of prude.
Contrast Janeway to Major Kira... who was fiesty and take charge and still able to have adult relationships. Janeway did no favors to the feminist movement, IMO.
I think you make some very good points, Gotham, particularly in the last paragraph. The writers did seem intent to make an issue out of Janeway being a woman, where they did not make an issue out of Sisko being a black man. Sisko was depicted as a father, though, but not fatherly to his crew, and indeed their circumstances were different.
I distinctly remember reading something in TV Guide around the time VGR premiered where someone wrote in to ask why the first lead female captain had been given command of a ship named after a minivan.
I think a lot of it has to do with the different premise of each show. VGR seemed to specifically go for the crew trying to unify into a 'family' because of their unique situation. I wonder, then, if the Janeway character would have been so polarizing had he been a he and exhibited fatherly characteristics towards his crew? What if Sisko had been a woman in command of DS9, and still been a single parent? Would the same fans who embraced Janeway for being 'motherly' have embraced female Sisko for the same reason, and would female Sisko be so polarizing as Janeway?
I didn't have a problem with her being a mother figure.
I had a problem with her being written as prudish and erratic.
I would have liked her more if she was more like Laura Roslin on BSG. Commanding and motherly, forced to make tough decisions but consistent, no-nonsense but not afraid to fall in love...
I had a problem with her being written as prudish and erratic.
I would have liked her more if she was more like Laura Roslin on BSG. Commanding and motherly, forced to make tough decisions but consistent, no-nonsense but not afraid to fall in love...
Agreed and understood.
What's interesting to me is that some feminists even seem to find a strong mother figure to be insulting, and therefore might have objected to Janeway. I still don't understand why she should be so particularly polarizing, except that as Gotham Central suggested, extra emphasis was placed on it.
Again, a case where it's the consistency of the writing, not the actress or character, who are the primary reason why.
Indeed. Such a Janeway would have been a wonder to behold. And Laura got to have her big romance too, without her losing anything. There was never any doubt that Laura was a woman, but there was never any doubt that she was in charage - gender wasn't an issue on BSG. I wonder if Voyager was made now (if it started now) - if they'd follow that pattern for Katherine as well? Hmmm.
Personally, I think they made the right decision in casting Mulgrew for the role of Janeway. I remember my first reactions were: holy crap and WOW! When she yelled: REPORT! you could really and I mean REALLY hear her! But when Bujold did it it was like a meek: oh...report. 
Anyway, not trying to compare the two women, but I thought Mulgrew was way more attractive and younger looking than Bujold. I really have no idea why people say the things they say about a certain character. But I could understand them not liking her in the beginning..she seemed a bit..stern..and bossy. Maybe it was that tight bun that was pissing her off..hell I don't know! But all I know is that I liked her from the get-go!
What gets me is years later, people making rude comments about her saying: oh she doesn't look the same..she's so old! Well, DUUUUHH! It's been like 8 years since Voyager has been off the air. Personally I don't see it..I think she looks great even more so now than she did back in the mid ninties!
I guess she was polarizing because she really got our attention as an audience in the very first episode of Voyager.
Anyway, not trying to compare the two women, but I thought Mulgrew was way more attractive and younger looking than Bujold. I really have no idea why people say the things they say about a certain character. But I could understand them not liking her in the beginning..she seemed a bit..stern..and bossy. Maybe it was that tight bun that was pissing her off..hell I don't know! But all I know is that I liked her from the get-go!What gets me is years later, people making rude comments about her saying: oh she doesn't look the same..she's so old! Well, DUUUUHH! It's been like 8 years since Voyager has been off the air. Personally I don't see it..I think she looks great even more so now than she did back in the mid ninties!
I guess she was polarizing because she really got our attention as an audience in the very first episode of Voyager.
Spot on.
I did like Janeway's darker moments in the later seasons, but for the most part your descriptions are simply spot on in my opinion.
Such a shame that Jeri left the show.
Kate was adamantly against Janeway having a love life. She liked Braga's take on Janeway and felt it closer to what she'd done internally with the character than Jeri Taylor's take.
There are multiple interviews around seasons 4 & 5 in which she goes into it.
I think the Captain alone dynamic works for Janeway, because she's ultimately self obsessed, but this can't be the standard for every futurewoman in command.
One area where I never agreed with KM.
One of the things Kate was most concerned about was the double standard for women. She felt that Janeway couldn't be as casual about relationships as, say, Kirk.
She also--although she was less consistent in this--seemed to understand that Chakotay wouldn't wait forever, that it was rather absurd to expect a healthy man to wait celibate for 70 years. And that's something I always agreed with.
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