Why was Kes written off the show?

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

While this is true Trek itself is pretty sexless. .

Come again? Remember TOS? It may seem tame by modern standards, but they were definitely going for sex appeal from day one. "

But the same can't be said about the series that followed. Even ENT with it's decon chamber and neuro pressure isn't sexy the way, say, River Song is with the Doctor. And that's also a family show. ENT made a feeble effort at being sexy but the other shows it's all down to subtext. Even TOS.. where is the sexual tension other than in subtext land?

 

[Greg Cox]

While this is true Trek itself is pretty sexless. .

Come again? Remember TOS? It may seem tame by modern standards, but they were definitely going for sex appeal from day one. "

But the same can't be said about the series that followed. Even ENT with it's decon chamber and neuro pressure isn't sexy the way, say, River Song is with the Doctor. And that's also a family show. ENT made a feeble effort at being sexy but the other shows it's all down to subtext. Even TOS.. where is the sexual tension other than in subtext land?

Aside from Kirk romancing a beautiful female guest-star every third episode? And all those skimpy costumes?

"What is this thing you call kissing, Earthman?"

Granted, there were no romantic subplots between regulars. Back in those days, that's what guest-stars were for . . . .

 

[Guy Gardener]

They were pushing Chapel and Spock together for a few episodes in the beginning I thought int he beginning?

Ironically...

TOS doesn't fuck around.

Every woman on that show is for kirk to bang and the audience to eyefuck.

(With their eyes, not in her eyes, you sick puppy.)

Women were objectified.

To the bone.

because TOS happened a long time ago it's tolerable.

It gets a pass.

More than tolerable.

(Ask the cast of Mad Men.)

It's a loophole.

now.

In modern days.

1. Women are people.

2. Women have feelings.

3. Actresses are artists.

4. Actresses are not called actresses any more, they're called actors.

5. Women might be sexual beings, but they're not sexual beings for you, so keep your pants on.

Personally.

I think the gender in question has painted themselves into a corner because if beautiful women demand to be treated like ugly men, then they're going to be treated like ugly men, and that's no fun for anyone.

 

[C.E. Evans]

That's exactly what happened.

That's no different from saying all the engineering staff died or that everyone in the science department died. They really had to make it so that every single medical officer aboard the Voyager had to die no matter where they were on the ship.

well to be fair, of a crew of 150 on what was supposed to be a short-term mission, they probably didn't have that many. It might have been the smallest department.

The ship's medical department was severely understaffed. You'd think there'd be at least three doctors onboard (one for each of the presumed three daily shifts).

 

[JanewayRulz!]

Someone should really have had a breakdown around the 5th year, someone with a lot left behind.

Actually, I would argue that everyone had a breakdown in the 5th year.

Janeway in "Night".


Seven in "Drone", "Infinite regress" and "Dark Frontier".

B'Elanna in "Extreme Risk", and "Nothing Human" and "Juggernaut".

Chakotay in "The Fight".

Kim in "Timeless" and "The Disease".

Tuvok in "Gravity"... if you consider that a "breakdown".

Neelix in "Once upon a Time".

The EMH already had HIS meltdown in season 4's "Latent Image", so he was spared the season 5 "dark night of the soul" that his organic counterparts went through.

The one that I liked the most, as you might guess... was the breakdown between Janeway and Torres. TPTB really tore those two apart and didn't "really" let them get back together until early season 6's "Barge of the Dead".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TZrjuSUuW8&feature=related






[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TZrjuSUuW8&feature=related[/yt]

 

[You_Will_Fail]

Oh god, you can't resist pulling that clip out all the time can you...is that like your porn?

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Did someone say porn?

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhdFNXgVfK8&feature=related[/yt]

 

[Lynx]

It was a stupid mistake to dump Kes.

 

[JanewayRulz!]

Oh god, you can't resist pulling that clip out all the time can you...is that like your porn?

Why yes... yes it is.

Lynx wrote:

It was a stupid mistake to dump Kes.

Yes... yes it was.

 

[JanewayRulz!]

Did someone say porn?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhdFNXgVfK8&feature=player_embedded

I'll see your J/7 Fantasy... and raise you another SazzyAgain uber video. (Is Sazzy like the video version of Spalko???)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_Dg81uMh1A&context=C391f7b2ADOEgsToPDskI9QLT_JITP2xNrw0uKHOv0




[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_Dg81uMh1A&context=C391f7b2ADOEgsToPDskI9QLT_JITP2xNrw0uKHOv0[/yt]

 

[tomswift2002]

It was a stupid mistake to dump Kes.

I agree. Seven seemed to be more of a sex symbol on the show than a character that was actually interesting. Kes, while she did have that sexual appeal, it was more toned down and, because I was in my teens at the time Voyager was on, I could relate to her sense of wonder, much like teenagers in the early 90's could relate to Wesley.

 

[You_Will_Fail]

Just because she wore a skintight catsuit and had big boobs didn't mean she wasn't an interesting character. Seven was a breath of fresh air to the show, we got someone who was actually standing up to Janeway and providing desperately needed conflict in the show. And the story of her assimilation as a child, and how she grew to accept her humanity was arresting and interesting if not executed in the best manner.

 

[Guy Gardener]

1. you just called Kes a breath stale old air.

2. Data already did this.

 

[DeepSpaceWine]

Seven was an interesting character. Her quest for humanity was interesting because she wasn't entirely comfortable with the steps and wasn't at all eager compared to eager beaver Data & the Doctor. She also regularly challenged Janeway (which was probably one of the aspects of finding humanity/being deprogrammed from the cult of the Collective that she happily embraced) which was something people wanted the Maquis to do more of. She also took over Neelix's role as Sacagawea of the Delta Quadrant, using the Borg's knowledge of space to explain races or phenomena in different episodes. If things went differently, she could have been the cook, using all the recipes the Borg have assimilated to cook for Voyager a wider culinary selection than Annorax's culinary museum ever could, and she could have improved the efficiency of the cooking appliances with her Borg knowhow.

And "Latent Image" *was* Season 5. Aired January 1999.

 

[Guy Gardener]

She became a very accomplished chef.

We saw this in The Void.

We're also to assume that she spent a lot of time drinking a lot of wine to figure out which wine is served with which serving... And which is not.

"Wine Nazi".

 

[You_Will_Fail]

2. Data already did this.

I don't agree, I think Seven's journey was far more real than Data if you can even say he had one, since she was actually capable of feeling emotion

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

They may have brought 7 in as a sex symbol but the character became far more than that thanks to the writing and excellent acting. People who only see a catsuit and big breasts aren't watching the show IMHO. I found her journey much more interesting than Data or the Doctor, for one thing neither of them were someone you felt incredible sympathy for. They were created, they wished to exceed their programming. 7 had her life stolen from her in childhood and yet she also had an incredible life given to her in that loss. She never loses sight of that and this is one thing that makes her struggles interesting. It would have been easy to make her hate everything Borg but she has tasted perfection. She may no longer wish to be a slave but she keeps her slave name because finds strength in that identity, even as she moves beyond it.

My in universe explanation of the catsuit is that 7 is used to being completely encased as a borg. Loose fitting fabric is both inefficient and discomforting to her, she does not wish to think about clothing or adjust it. To wear a catsuit is to feel safely held together.

 

[Deks]

I agree that it's entirely possible they brought in 7 of 9 as a sex symbol initially (one which grew into something more).
However, I have to wonder, just how much of the decisions were made as a direct result of network interference.
Don't get me wrong, I still think Voyager beats DS9 and TNG, but Berman and Braga apparently wanted to serialize the show at some point to flesh it out more (only to be prevented by the network).
If Voyager got something along the lines of 4 episode stories like Enterprise did, it could have showed certain situations in a bit better capacity (Scorpion for example or the Equinox).
Maybe even preserving the Nova class ship to tag along - plenty of options to consider.
:-)

 

[Miss Lemon]

They may have brought 7 in as a sex symbol but the character became far more than that thanks to the writing and excellent acting.

I couldn't agree more. I was very sceptical when they brought her in, but she proved to be a much more interesting character than Kes. The character Kes had great potential, but the writers just didn't seem to know what to do with her.

It's a pity though the writers didn't write more strong character shows for other characters such as Tuvok and Chakotay. In the end, I became a bit tired of all the episodes that focussed on Janeway and Seven.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

I agree that it's entirely possible they brought in 7 of 9 as a sex symbol initially (one which grew into something more).
However, I have to wonder, just how much of the decisions were made as a direct result of network interference.
Don't get me wrong, I still think Voyager beats DS9 and TNG, but Berman and Braga apparently wanted to serialize the show at some point to flesh it out more (only to be prevented by the network).
If Voyager got something along the lines of 4 episode stories like Enterprise did, it could have showed certain situations in a bit better capacity (Scorpion for example or the Equinox).
Maybe even preserving the Nova class ship to tag along - plenty of options to consider.
:-)

I think we all would have loved that, but sadly we didn't get it. Watching those ENT min-arcs in season 4 makes you realize how great this would have been.

In the end, I became a bit tired of all the episodes that focussed on Janeway and Seven.

You mean the All Janeway, All 7 Lovefest that has been like air and water to me all these years?