Why the Ralph McQuarrie-inspired USS Discovery is an incredible design

[cultcross]

The more pictures I see if it the more butt ugly it seems. I just don't think it's at all elegant, beautiful or inspiring.
Now, is it a practical design? Does it fit into the lineage of ships? Quite possibly. I have no strong argument on those points. But God it's ugly. A misshapen kitbash of a design with that horrible triangle thing going on in the middle. It looks like what it is, a Star Destroyer with a saucer and nacelles glued on.

Anyway, I'll watch the show. I fully expect to enjoy the show, too, as the ship design isn't all that important to me in a trek show, but it's the first hero ship I've looked at and thought 'yuck'. Voyager and the NX01 were pretty uninspiring, but I didn't dislike them. This thing though is just a mess.

 

[INACTIVEUSS Einstein]

@cultcross - it can't be that bad!!!

Like Xerxes said even the Millennium Falcon looks ugly from a certain point of view, its more how the ship is used that gives it an iconic reputation. See it moving, and participating in action and your opinion may change.

I think a lot of the criticism might disappear when its been properly textured/scaled like this:

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[Longinus]

The problem is not that it is 70's design, the problem is that it is ugly. They rejected that design for a reason.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Love this.

Don't love this. It's the nacelles and added curves in the saucer and neck I'm not fond of. Like it can't fully commit to being as rough and angular as it wants to be.

 

[Longinus]

I think a lot of the criticism might disappear when its been properly textured/scaled like this:

That ship has serious issues too (still way better than Discovery, of course.) But the problem with Discovery is not the details, the basic design is just hideous. Upping the FX quality is proverbial turd polishing; it wont save it.

 

[INACTIVEUSS Einstein]

The problem is not that it is 70's design, the problem is that it is ugly. They rejected that design for a reason.

When I first saw it my reaction was the I would have preferred the other McQuarrie design, this one:

Like a swan sailing in. But if we are going to get the flatter one I don't mind it either.

 

[cultcross]

Swans are elegant with graceful curves. That's a pigeon.

 

[INACTIVEUSS Einstein]

That ship has serious issues too (still way better than Discovery, of course.) But the problem with Discovery is not the details, the basic design is just hideous. Upping the FX quality is proverbial turd polishing; it wont save it.

What would you have gone with instead?

I was gonna ask this as part of the original post, but it seems there are only a few ways you could make something look as immediately distinguishable - a lot of John Eaves stuff for example ends up looking the same, and although I like his work well enough, it does tend to have very similar features a lot of the time. We could have ended up with any old video game type design - so it seems to me that we could do a lot worse.

I don't mind Eaves designs, but they would not have looked particularly like a fresh bold new era, I don't think. Why do I think that, well, remember what happened to the NX-01?

That was the original concept - basically, a Connie with more ribs for her pleasure. I mean it's alright, but it's not that memorable. The studio then decided they liked the look of a 24th century starship more, and the concept was scrapped in favor of an Akira class that was made to look old fashioned instead.

This was fucking cool though:

A lot of concepts from around the end of DS9 look like this:

I like them well enough - but do you see the pattern?

A lot of ship design just seems to follow that same idea - get a geometric shape and make it look more ribbed - take a Constitution class type space and busy it up in various ways, or alter the angle of the pylons a bit - get a Klingon ship and make it more detailed or pod-y.

We also get a lot of designs in B-canon that just look like a Starfleet ship that has been made either more organic, or more jaggy:

I utterly hate designs like the one above from STO.

Just before the Abrams movie, the Gabe Koerner concept was mistaken for an early design piece for that movie, but again is just a connie with some more detailing. To me, the Discovery looks like a fresh start concept, more akin to it's namesake in 2001: A Space Odyssey.

I like it a lot, but it's just a HD connie with more busy details - it wouldnt allow a new fan to quickly distinguish it, whereas Voyager, DS9, TNG and TOS all look very different.

The only one I would genuinely like to see as much as Discovery is this idea below:

It's basically got that Oberth class "everything is part of the saucer" thing going on.

Also I like this Klingon ship a lot:

 

[Doford]

OP, It's the worse design out of all those shown on this page. It's worse than 99% of the ships shown in all of star trek. It's terrible.

 

[Longinus]

What would you have gone with instead?

I was gonna ask this as part of the original post, but it seems there are only a few ways you could make something look as immediately distinguishable - a lot of John Eaves stuff for example ends up looking the same, and although I like his work well enough, it does tend to have very similar features a lot of the time. We could have ended up with any old video game type design - so it seems to me that we could do a lot worse.

I don't mind Eaves designs, but they would not have looked particularly like a fresh bold new era, I don't think. Why do I think that, well, remember what happened to the NX-01?

That was the original concept - basically, a Connie with more ribs for her pleasure. I mean it's alright, but it's not that memorable.

I really like that design, the shape is beautiful. It is true that it looks a lot like Connie and thus would not have been good NX. But this would be perfect mid 23rd century light cruiser (I see it as a slightly smaller and more agile counterpart to Connie.)

A lot of concepts from around the end of DS9 look like this:

Horrible details, the basic shape is nice.

This is good. Though it is very similar to D7. Would work as D6.

This is basically the wireframe ship we saw in the second teaser. The basic design is nice.

This looks pretty stupid, but it is fine as weird alien ship.

This looks good, but again it is just a slight alteration to older design.

I like them well enough - but do you see the pattern?

A lot of ship design just seems to follow that same idea - get a geometric shape and make it look more ribbed - take a Constitution class type space and busy it up in various ways, or alter the angle of the pylons a bit - get a Klingon ship and make it more detailed or pod-y.

I see what you mean, an I really do not like the jagged stuff on fed ships. However, there just is a limited way you can arrange the usual fed ship parts without it looking like shit, and the Discovery is not one of them. There is just no way to make that huge triangle to work with the saucer.

We also get a lot of designs in B-canon that just look like a Starfleet ship that has been made either more organic, or more jaggy:

I utterly hate designs like the one above from STO.

I kinda like the sleek organic look for post TNG ships (though many STO designs are shit.) Way better for the peaceful explorers than the jagged look, leave that to Klingons.

Personally I'd like Discovery era ships to have TMP era hull detail and style, TOS style engines and hull markings. Combine those things with various fed ship shapes and you will have a nice looking yet TOS style fleet.

This fan made Discovery concept has been posted many times, but i think it is pretty much perfect. It looks really good (except maybe directly from the side) and looks perfectly era appropriate.

 

[INACTIVEUSS Einstein]

Thanks for the thorough reply @Longinus - I enjoyed reading your views.

I do like that fan concept I must admit, but I don't really have the same kind of dislike for the Discovery as a lot of people seem to - so I can't really say that I would like it any better or worse - it would make a good accompanying ship in the series.

I also have the feeling that the shape of the Discovery has some meta-textual meaning, i.e. Bryan Fuller may have chosen a shape that deliberately echoed the IDIC as a sort of thematic statement that the show would be a celebration of diversity working in political union - a statement that progressiveness and cooperation are superior to atavistic religious and cultural loyalties.

You know, what you said about Eaves original NX-01 concept has made it grow on me; I wouldn't at all mind seeing it as a light cruiser in the background of the new show - it would be very appropriate like you say - and it does look quite nice - out of all the major re-imagined Connies it certainly puts the nacelles in the best looking position.

 

[Psion]

I hated McQuarrie's design when I first saw it as the proposed Enterprise decades ago. It wasn't right -- for that ship. But as a different ship in Starfleet, it can work well with a few modifications. Many of the fan-made alternatives look great. I'd even accept the one from the teaser, with another pass on detailing and texturing, and I'd much prefer it to that abomination wireframe thing seen a few weeks ago.

 

[Doford]

@USS Einstein I don't mind the IDIC symbol but Maybe Picard or kirk should have taught Fuller about aesthetics. I like the fan made discovery, maybe it could be a more like the alternate universe enterprise.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

Thanks for the thorough reply @Longinus - I enjoyed reading your views.

I do like that fan concept I must admit, but I don't really have the same kind of dislike for the Discovery as a lot of people seem to - so I can't really say that I would like it any better or worse - it would make a good accompanying ship in the series.

I also have the feeling that the shape of the Discovery has some meta-textual meaning, i.e. Bryan Fuller may have chosen a shape that deliberately echoed the IDIC as a sort of thematic statement that the show would be a celebration of diversity working in political union - a statement that progressiveness and cooperation are superior to atavistic religious and cultural loyalties.

You know, what you said about Eaves original NX-01 concept has made it grow on me; I wouldn't at all mind seeing it as a light cruiser in the background of the new show - it would be very appropriate like you say - and it does look quite nice - out of all the major re-imagined Connies it certainly puts the nacelles in the best looking position.

I noticed the IDIC resemblance. I wonder if it's a Vulcan design meant as an inside joke (as much of a joke as Vulcans can manage anyway).

 

[Relayer1]

I thought it was ugly when I first saw it this thirty something years ago and was glad they didn't use it.

It's still ugly, I still don't like it, but I find I don't care if they do use it.

 

[Kevin Wolff]

@USS Einstein Maybe Picard or kirk should have taught Fuller about aesthetics.

They should have. And maybe they would have if they were people and not characters.

If the show ends up being the beginning of a new universe, then they need to make a drastic change in order to open up design possibilities for Starfleet ships for the next decade or 2. Can you imagine the blandness if they kept recycling TOS and TNG era 10 years from now? Also, making Discovery different allows for more faithful Connie makeover down the road.

I like Discovery, but I love the McQuarrie design. Rear view, not front which is too narrow and tall. I especially love the more rounded, flatter saucer section and smaller less obtrusive nacelles. This really gives a sense of larger scale and relegates the normally dominant design traits of the saucer and nacelles to the background and allows the secondary hull to become more dominant. Discovery's nacelles are too big but I imagine this is one of the changes they made in the revision model.

 

[publiusr]

What would you have gone with instead?



I don't mind Eaves designs, but they would not have looked particularly like a fresh bold new era, I don't think. Why do I think that, well, remember what happened to the NX-01?

Fleshed out:
http://www.scifi-meshes.com/forums/...th-a-twist&s=8752c555a62c3061e3b0869bec8bc6f7

http://www.scifi-meshes.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=107926&d=1396853677

Similar
https://madkoifish.files.wordpress.com/2017/02/wedge-trek-287a.jpg

More:
http://losttrek.weebly.com/the-adam-mcquarrie-enterprise.html
http://io9.gizmodo.com/5721854/ralph-mcquarries-lost-concept-art-for-a-star-trek-movie-in-1976-1977/

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/99-sc...-mcquarrie-style-starship-scratchbuild-5.html
https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/planet-of-the-titans-revisited.67493/page-8

 

[The Impaler]

Count me in as loving the Discovery design. Wouldn't mind seeing it retextured to more of a TOS or TMP skin. Those John Eaves designs are pretty bad IMO. I don't mind the overall shape and form, it's all in the finish work. There's just WAY too much going on, no elegance at all. Less is more really comes to mind on that.

I could totally get on board with something like this as well.

 

[cultcross]

What would you have gone with instead?

I'd have been tempted to ditch the saucer design entirely. It would be controversial, but not every Federation ship has to have the saucer, engineering hull, two nacelles layout. There are only so many ways to lay that out and I daresay we've seen all the good ones and some of the... others. If we want to keep having new hero ships, we're going to have to try something different. It's not unprecedented - the Defiant was hardly conventional Starfleet design - and it would help set the show apart.

 

[Mudd]

The saucer is my favorite bit - whenever they ditch that, I don't like the design.

Replace the engineering hull with the McQuarrie/Adams triangle and that would be okay.