Why the Prime Universe was not messed up

[Ln X]

Quite simple really; 29th century Starfleet, as shown in the VOY episode Relativity, would send some temporal agents to 2387 (like it was there job) or when Nero arrived in the 23rd century, and do some temporal higgedgy piggedy or hocus pocus and mend the timeline.

So if Nero was somehow stopped from going back in time, then Vulcan would never have been destroyed, and the timeline (or quasality) of the prime universe is thus preserved. I'm certain Starfleet of the 29th century would abide by the Temporal Prime Directive and mend the timeline.

The point is this can allow for both universes to exist, since JJ Abram's universe exists so as long as the temporal discontinuity continues (which in essence means this universe can go on forever more as the flow of time would be different), and the Prime universe will exist because 29th century Starfleet fixed the timeline.

So we don't have to worry about the timeline being altered; both universes apply!

 

[Skywalker]

Vulcan wasn't destroyed in the "prime" universe. Only Romulus was, and as far as we know, temporal shenanigans had nothing to do with its destruction. Both universes already exist, and the "prime" timeline wasn't altered.

 

[Caesar753]

Do we really need to have this discussion again?

 

[Skywalker]

Apparently so.

 

[Dukhat]

What the hell, I'm not doing anything important tonight...I'll take a stab at this.

Quite simple really; 29th century Starfleet, as shown in the VOY episode Relativity, would send some temporal agents to 2387 (like it was there job) or when Nero arrived in the 23rd century, and do some temporal higgedgy piggedy or hocus pocus and mend the timeline.

So if Nero was somehow stopped from going back in time, then Vulcan would never have been destroyed, and the timeline (or quasality) of the prime universe is thus preserved. I'm certain Starfleet of the 29th century would abide by the Temporal Prime Directive and mend the timeline.

The point is this can allow for both universes to exist, since JJ Abram's universe exists so as long as the temporal discontinuity continues (which in essence means this universe can go on forever more as the flow of time would be different), and the Prime universe will exist because 29th century Starfleet fixed the timeline.

So we don't have to worry about the timeline being altered; both universes apply!

The existence of the "Temporal Starfleet" of the 29th century, and their mission of "correcting the timeline" is dubious at best when scrutinized closely.

First of all, I feel I need to point out that in both instances in VOY where the time cops are featured, it ultimately turned out that the problems in the timeline they were trying to fix ended up being caused by them in the first place! So they seem to be pretty lousy at their job, huh?

Second, the original Prime timeline wasn't altered anyway, because if it was erased, then Spock Prime and the Narada would have been erased along with it. It's not like they had some kind of temporal force field around them when they were pulled into the past.

Third, even if the prime timeline was erased and the time cops needed to fix it, why would they fix this instance and not, say fix what Admiral Janeway did? Or what Sisko did with Gabriel Bell? Or what happened with the Enterprise-C? Or the countless other times the timeline "changed" throughout Trek history?

Fourth, parallel universes are abundant in the Trek universe, some if not all caused by time travel. As long as they aren't wiping out the "original" universe (and "Parallels" showed that they don't), they have every right to exist, and the time cops would have no right to change them.

Fifth, if the time cops "fixed" the timeline as you say, then the Abramsverse would cease to exist. Obviously that hasn't happened, or will happen in the near future.

Finally, how do the time cops know that "fixing" the timeline won't cause their own timeline to change? How do they know that their timeline is the original one? Do they exist outside of time?

 

[Therin of Andor]

how do the time cops know that "fixing" the timeline won't cause their own timeline to change? How do they know that their timeline is the original one? Do they exist outside of time?

Lots of your questions are answered in "Department of Temporal Investigations (DTI): Watching the Clock", a recent Star Trek novel by Christopher L Bennett.

 

[Hober Mallow]

Do we really need to have this discussion again?

I really wish J. J. Abrams had just totally and unapologetically rebooted ST rather than this half-way bullshit with other universes.

 

[Mage]

Do we really need to have this discussion again?

I really wish J. J. Abrams had just totally and unapologetically rebooted ST rather than this half-way bullshit with other universes.

Do we really need to have THIS discussion again? The movie's been made, we've seen it, it's not going to change, deal with it.

 

[F. King Daniel]

how do the time cops know that "fixing" the timeline won't cause their own timeline to change? How do they know that their timeline is the original one? Do they exist outside of time?

Lots of your questions are answered in "Department of Temporal Investigations (DTI): Watching the Clock", a recent Star Trek novel by Christopher L Bennett.

A fantastic read, highly recommended. Explains how some time travel rewrites one history, but other kinds create alternate realities. And makes it sound believable!

 

[Mage]

how do the time cops know that "fixing" the timeline won't cause their own timeline to change? How do they know that their timeline is the original one? Do they exist outside of time?

Lots of your questions are answered in "Department of Temporal Investigations (DTI): Watching the Clock", a recent Star Trek novel by Christopher L Bennett.

A fantastic read, highly recommended. Explains how some time travel rewrites one history, but other kinds create alternate realities. And makes it sound believable!

Have to also say, DTI: Watching The Clock was one of the highlights of TrekLit of the last few years. And another DTI coming out soon!!

 

[Hober Mallow]

Do we really need to have this discussion again?

I really wish J. J. Abrams had just totally and unapologetically rebooted ST rather than this half-way bullshit with other universes.

Do we really need to have THIS discussion again? The movie's been made, we've seen it, it's not going to change, deal with it.

I enjoyed the movie for what it was. My point is that endless threads about prime universes and whatnot could be avoided and more attention actually paid to the movie's story and characters had it avoided a contrived tenuous connection to an imaginary universe comprising both Star Treks created by Gene Roddenberry and a bunch of spin-offs created by other people.

But to answer your question -- no, we don't need to have this discussion again. You needed be involved in the discussion at all.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

Vulcan wasn't destroyed in the "prime" universe. Only Romulus was, and as far as we know, temporal shenanigans had nothing to do with its destruction. Both universes already exist, and the "prime" timeline wasn't altered.

a beautiful word......shenanigans.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I really wish J. J. Abrams had just totally and unapologetically rebooted ST rather than this half-way bullshit with other universes.

Do we really need to have THIS discussion again? The movie's been made, we've seen it, it's not going to change, deal with it.

I enjoyed the movie for what it was. My point is that endless threads about prime universes and whatnot could be avoided and more attention actually paid to the movie's story and characters had it avoided a contrived tenuous connection to an imaginary universe comprising both Star Treks created by Gene Roddenberry and a bunch of spin-offs created by other people.

But to answer your question -- no, we don't need to have this discussion again. You needed be involved in the discussion at all.

Speak for yourself - I loved the in-universe reboot, and having Nimoy's Spock involved. As a lifelong die-hard fan, it made the movie more special to me than a straight-up reboot would have been.

 

[Skywalker]

Vulcan wasn't destroyed in the "prime" universe. Only Romulus was, and as far as we know, temporal shenanigans had nothing to do with its destruction. Both universes already exist, and the "prime" timeline wasn't altered.

a beautiful word......shenanigans.

I do love that word.

 

[SonicRanger]

\First of all, I feel I need to point out that in both instances in VOY where the time cops are featured, it ultimately turned out that the problems in the timeline they were trying to fix ended up being caused by them in the first place! So they seem to be pretty lousy at their job, huh?

They probably ended up wiping themselves out of the timeline -- in fact, their non-apparence in "Endgame" or ENT would suggest that indeed all the timeline changes eventually wiped out the time cops as well.

 

[Set Harth]

As a lifelong die-hard fan, it made the movie more special to me than a straight-up reboot would have been.

Agreed. Viewed as the continuing adventures of Spock after Unification in a post-Nemesis timeframe, it's a sequel to the other films.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

The situation is vague enough that people can take their pick. The Prime timeline was wiped out, or it wasn't harmed and a new timeline was created, which may or may not eventually merge back with the original timeline (so that TNG is the future of both timelines), or maybe nothing was created and both timelines have always existed and always will exist. Furthermore, we have no definitive proof that the so-called Prime timeline in the movie is the same one we saw in the TV series and previous movies.

Therefore, any further whining about timelines is your own damn fault.

 

[Set Harth]

which may or may not eventually merge back with the original timeline (so that TNG is the future of both timelines)

TNG has a Vulcan.

Furthermore, we have no definitive proof that the so-called Prime timeline in the movie is the same one we saw in the TV series and previous movies.

By that logic, we have no definitive proof that any Star Trek film or episode is in the same timeline as any other Star Trek film or episode. The only way you could "prove" it would be to have the writers or producers say it themselves in an appearance in the film, and that just doesn't happen, in this franchise or others. So it's not something that is in any way reasonable to expect from the film.

 

[Dukhat]

Furthermore, we have no definitive proof that the so-called Prime timeline in the movie is the same one we saw in the TV series and previous movies.

We do have definitive proof. The writers of the film said the Prime timeline that old Spock comes from is the same as TOS, TNG, etc. The movie was their creation; therefore if they say it's the same, it's the same.

 

[F. King Daniel]

"Hi, I'm Leonard Nimoy and in JJ's Star Trek, I played a Spock that wasn't the Spock I'm known for, but a different one. When I made references to Wrath of Khan and other classic Treks, you're to assume that something similar, although not identical, happened to that Spock."

Uh huh.