Why the Prime Universe was not messed up
- Thread starter Ln X
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This may be a very small thing, but to me there's just something very satisfying when hearing this new set of bad guys created by a brand new production team for a new era use the term "Ambassador Spock," which is a TNG invention.
Except for the writers' word that the 24th century we know still exists (as they've stated in interviews and shown in the story they suggested for IDW's "Countdown" comic). In the old, now parallel, timeline.
Not canonical, but definitive enough for me.
I'll make this simple. Time is a continuous linear stream of events. Depending on their method used; Star Trek 09 via blackhole, Star Trek IV slingshot effect, (both are examples of chaos theory/butterfly effects) that creates a parallel universe seperate from the universe they came from. nuSpock explains this in the 09 movie, but basically when the Narada exited the black hole a parallel universe was created. Everything after he did in this timeline has no consequences to the Prime universe. Episodes like TNG "Parallels" explains this concept as well.
The other form of time travel we see in the film "First Contact" is string theory. Linear time travel that did in fact rewrite the history of the TNG universe. The temporal wake displace the Borg cube in the same place but at a different time. The Ent-E was caught in the wake in the 24th century and they could see the effects of the Borg's incursion in to the past. Since the Ent-E was displaced in time due to the wake they still existed. Picard orders the Ent-E to continue through the wake to repair the damage. With the conclusion of the movie the events of history are restored to the way that matters most to the Ent-E crew. There was a bit of butterfly effect consequences since the Borg killed people from 2063 and the effects of their lives and decisions were nulled out, but the launch of the phoneix was successful and the Vulcans arrived. The future effects of the which probably created the Star Trek Enterprise series of events. With the ENT ep Regeneration having the Borg drones left from the events of First Contact in it. The ENT series could be an alternate universe opposite from the original timeline that didn't have a Borg incursion in to the past. Probably the excuse Berman and Braga used to justify creating this prequel series and retconning star trek canon.
Rejoice fan boys and girls. Our Star Trek Prime universe is preserved.
Lastly though the VOY episode Relativity has 7 of 9 make a reference to the events of "First Contact" being some sort of casualty loop/predestination complex. She's wrong and the writers messed up this detail trying to be clever. The events of "First Contact" can't be predestination because the Borg did succeed in assimilating Earth, from the pov of Picard and crew in the 24th century. The Ent-E follows the Borg through the wake to prevent the prevention of the flight of the Phoenix. The Borg and most notably 7 of 9 can not know that they would be successful in assimilating Earth in the past but also doomed to failure in the same past.
The other form of time travel we see in the film "First Contact" is string theory. Linear time travel that did in fact rewrite the history of the TNG universe. The temporal wake displace the Borg cube in the same place but at a different time. The Ent-E was caught in the wake in the 24th century and they could see the effects of the Borg's incursion in to the past. Since the Ent-E was displaced in time due to the wake they still existed. Picard orders the Ent-E to continue through the wake to repair the damage. With the conclusion of the movie the events of history are restored to the way that matters most to the Ent-E crew. There was a bit of butterfly effect consequences since the Borg killed people from 2063 and the effects of their lives and decisions were nulled out, but the launch of the phoneix was successful and the Vulcans arrived. The future effects of the which probably created the Star Trek Enterprise series of events. With the ENT ep Regeneration having the Borg drones left from the events of First Contact in it. The ENT series could be an alternate universe opposite from the original timeline that didn't have a Borg incursion in to the past. Probably the excuse Berman and Braga used to justify creating this prequel series and retconning star trek canon.
Rejoice fan boys and girls. Our Star Trek Prime universe is preserved.
Lastly though the VOY episode Relativity has 7 of 9 make a reference to the events of "First Contact" being some sort of casualty loop/predestination complex. She's wrong and the writers messed up this detail trying to be clever. The events of "First Contact" can't be predestination because the Borg did succeed in assimilating Earth, from the pov of Picard and crew in the 24th century. The Ent-E follows the Borg through the wake to prevent the prevention of the flight of the Phoenix. The Borg and most notably 7 of 9 can not know that they would be successful in assimilating Earth in the past but also doomed to failure in the same past.
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Will this do?
Yeah there are way to many parallel timelines to make a coherent chart of. But the chart basically displays if not confirms what i said. Nero arriving in the past is what created an alternate universe. Destroying the Kelvin and Vulcan were all consequences of this new timeline. The prime universe will go on
Okay, so Nero and the Narada travel back in time, as soon as they begin to interact with the prime universe of that time, a alternate universe is created. The appearence to the lightning storm in space prior to their arrival actually began the changes.
The other possibility is that, when Nero and the Narada emerged, they basically began to "over write" the events of the prime universe. Initially the differences were localized, but through the butterfly effect, the changes spread.
There is a large problem with that statement, when Nero traveled back, he emerge into the prime universe. When Spock traveled back he didn't emerge into the prime universe, somehow he emerged into the alternate universe that Nero's actions created. If the prime universe still existed, than why didn't Spock "exit" into the prime universe?
Because it no longer existed? Because there was no alternate universe in the first place, the universe that Nero was creating, and that continued to be created outside of his immediate influance was the "prime universe."
There was no old prime universe left for Spock to emerge into, it was gone.
Then why didn't Spock appear there as Nero did? How did he get across to the new timeline, if the old one still existed for him to emerge into?
Just physically being in the past creates the parallel universe. Time is linear, and when you interject something that didn't happen in a timeline a parallel is created. I should have clarified that the artificial creation of a black hole is what created the alternate timeline. TOS James T. Kirk was born in Iowa, when there was no supernova and lightning storm in space the Kelvin detected. While nuJames T was born in space after the Kelvin encounted the lightning storm and the Narada there after. It wasn't Spocks intention to create a vastly different parallel universe for the established one. The butterfly effect of a an absorbed supernova would seemingly have little effect on the past. Had Nero and Spock not travelled back in time with the black hole the ripple effects would've been contained.
Then why didn't Spock appear there as Nero did? How did he get across to the new timeline, if the old one still existed for him to emerge into?
The reason Spock arrived in the alternate timeline is because it was the exact same method/phenomenon of time travel that caused the Narada to travel back. Aside from plot, there is no in story explanation for the 25 year gap in Nero and Spock's arrivals. But from Spock's point of view in the mind meld scene it was only seconds for him being absorbed by the black hole, but years for Nero. Spock didn't merge into a new universe like you suggest. He arrived in the separate universe he created by artificially creating a black hole. Remember a hole in space is theoretically a hole in time. In reality we can prove this but in science fiction it's a clever way to preserve both continuities.
T'Girl said:
Technically, it's no longer the actual past of the prime universe as soon as he's emerging into it. But it's identical aside from his emergence and the changes following from it.
T'Girl said:
Because it was the same red matter black hole, they apparently went to the same universe - one that can be said to have been created by Nero's time travel and was still waiting ( though having progressed in time at a different rate ) to receive Spock. This could be seen as a property of red matter black holes. In this sense the black hole, after Nero's entry, kind of acts as a wormhole connecting universes.
Well thank god for that. I've been having constant panic attacks for the past two years.
According to "Parallels" there's a universe for any possible outcome of any event. So, if there's a branch where Nero arrives and one where he doesn't, there's one where Nero arrives but Spock didn't, just like in "Parallels" there was one where the Borg won "Best of Both Worlds"
God
The whole thing was a reboot all this Prime Universe stuff was so the ardent fans wouldn't go mental
The whole thing was a reboot all this Prime Universe stuff was so the ardent fans wouldn't go mental
What? No!
And they didn't?
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