Why the moviesl killed TNG

[cardinal biggles]

Well, in fairness, Riker's "lackluster side trips" in First Contact and Insurrection were because Jonathan Frakes was directing as well as acting. His role on the series also seemed to diminish in accordance with his starting to direct episodes of the show.

 

[egonbeeblebrox]

First Contact could have easily been the story that requires both Kirk and Picard to work together to protect the first Contact. If they could have gotten Nemoy in on it, think of the Spock moments as well.

I've been saying basically this same thing for a few years now. I would've had the Borg go back to Kirk's time, and it's up to him and Picard to save the day. Kirk would have to, of course, seduce the Borg Queen.

Bonus points if Chekov gets assimilated in the process.

 

[number6]

TNG was pretty much DOA by the middle of season six. The movies weren't that bad. I think First Contact was one of the best of the film series.

 

[scottydog]

I rarely watch any of the trek movies, except when I feel like noticing how badly many of the actors aged. The TV series' are what made trek so great. The movies had some good moments but were basically made for financial profit.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

I just watched GEN. You'd think that after seven seasons, and a number of DS9 episodes, GEN would feel better as an experience... It didn't.

It was terrible, people! Data's turned back to a season 1 goofy caricature, as if seven years didn't pass by at all, Picard's story is never satisfyingly resolved (making Robert and Rene Picard's death all the more trivial and insignificant), Worf becomes a comic figure (cringe), and Kirk feels out of place. Also, the Ent-B scenes feel terribly fake, for some reason. And Harriman is a shame to all Enterprise captains.

Of course, there was the occassional delight - Kirk and Picard interaction, no matter how forcely scripted and limited in range, was beautiful. Shatner and Stewart have real chemistry. Its sad they didn't do more scenes, or another movie, together.

Anywho, GEN dissapoints, on every level. Especially after that excellent Series finale, "All Good Things"...

 

[EliyahuQeoni]

Also, the Ent-B scenes feel terribly fake, for some reason. And Harriman is a shame to all Enterprise captains.

Its all a matter of taste, but the 1701-B sequence has always been a favorite of mine. In fact, I think part of the reason the rest of the movie looks so bad is that the beginning was rather strong

 

[Allyn Gibson]

In fact, I think part of the reason the rest of the movie looks so bad is that the beginning was rather strong

My only issue with the Enterprise-B prologue is that hearing TNG-style technobabble out of Scotty and the Enterprise bridge crew was like a bucket of cold water telling me that this wasn't classic Star Trek, despite the trappings.

I wish the Enterprise-B sequence was more relevant to the film as a whole. It's something that could easily have been chopped off, and the film would have been essentially the same. Were it up to me, I'd have found a way to stage the finale -- with Kirk and Picard battling Soran -- aboard the Enterprise-B instead of on Veridian III. (I have extensive notes on this scenario, as a Strange New Worlds submission I made a number of years ago was built around the premise.)

 

[EliyahuQeoni]

^^
True, the sequence is far from perfect. The technobabble was just horrid. But Shatner's performance as Kirk and his "death" on the E-B was much more effective than that at the end of the film.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

In fact, I think part of the reason the rest of the movie looks so bad is that the beginning was rather strong

My only issue with the Enterprise-B prologue is that hearing TNG-style technobabble out of Scotty and the Enterprise bridge crew was like a bucket of cold water telling me that this wasn't classic Star Trek, despite the trappings.

I wish the Enterprise-B sequence was more relevant to the film as a whole. It's something that could easily have been chopped off, and the film would have been essentially the same. Were it up to me, I'd have found a way to stage the finale -- with Kirk and Picard battling Soran -- aboard the Enterprise-B instead of on Veridian III. (I have extensive notes on this scenario, as a Strange New Worlds submission I made a number of years ago was built around the premise.)

Thats a brilliant idea, actually. Would've made more sense, too. Care to share to us (even in PM, if necessary)?

That said, I agree with you on the non-relevance of Ent-B.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Thats a brilliant idea, actually. Would've made more sense, too.

The story was an attempt to reconcile the events of "All Good Things..." (where Picard sees the future, and the Enterprise-D is clearly in it) with Generations (where the Enterprise-D has its final flight).

The tack I took was this: Picard hadn't just seen the future. There were, in vague glimpses, twenty-five years worth of additional memories in his skull. He'd interacted quite well with people in the future timeline. There were memories there, and he was able to use them.

And it made him cocky.

The story was told in flashback. Picard is on the Farragut, leaving Veridian III, and he's musing on how things went wrong.

The memories of the confrontation with Soran that Picard had from the "All Good Things..." future were vastly different. Everything was the same, right up into the Nexus, only instead of travelling back to Veridian III, Picard and Kirk travel back to the Enterprise-B. And Soran "senses" this from inside the Nexus, and he leaves the Nexus, returns to the -B, and confronts the captains.

Soran tries to commandeer the Enterprise-B from Engineering. He and Picard break into Engineering along the intermix chamber. They fight in Engineering.

Kirk is killed in Engineering. Basically, Kirk dies saving the Enterprise. Soran is taken into custody. DTI takes care of Picard.

(And in the film, Riker says something about how Kirk was killed aboard the Enterprise-B. This is what he meant. Not the "sucked out into space" bit.)

Picard remembered all this. And he decided that the mistake they made was in going back to the Enterprise-B. Surely the two captains could overpower Soran on the Veridian mountaintop. So that's where they went, and things went wrong. Kirk died, and the Enterprise-D was destroyed.

All because Picard didn't want Kirk to die aboard the Enterprise-B.

It was a story-within-a-story, and while there were good ideas inside (though in typing this up I see a major plot hole, or I'm forgetting an important detail -- how was it that the Enterprise-D wasn't destroyed in the "original" timeline), the writing wasn't compelling. The story started out slow, because Picard was pensive, and Picard explores his memories by talking with Guinan, and it never really gelled.

I haven't read this story in years. It was called, I think, "Memories of Tomorrow."

 

[CorporalClegg]

Though I don't necessarily agree with the OP's choice of style, it does present more evidence Star Trek really doesn't belong on the big screen.

Er, how about the first 4 and the sixth one?

Are all inferior to the source material.

 

[Sean Aaron]

I don't own Star Trek V, which -- despite some nice moments with the Big 3 -- was a crapfest and I don't own any of the TNG films because as others have said they were completely false to the series.

Rewatching TNG and then moving to the films it is quite jarring, the characterisations really don't go well. Generations is promising, but the need to "pass the torch" that really wasn't there forces a story that doesn't satisfy. I don't understand why studio people would feel a need to restrict the creative process to satisfy what they "think" fans want. Kirk doesn't even need to be in the movie let alone be killed -- I don't know how Sulu ends up, or indeed even McCoy ultimately so why do I need to see Kirk die? I wasn't angry, but it seemed pointless. Data gets some nice development, but again, second-guessing the fans it only lasts for another film, or part of it given that he shuts the chip off himself in First Contact and we get back Season 1 Data for the final two films.

First Contact is almost acceptable, but after rewatching The Best of Both Worlds and the episode following with Picard's homecoming and even moreso with I, Borg, it's pretty clear that Picard has dealt with his issues. If we are to believe he's as bloody-minded about the Borg as depicted in First Contact, then surely he would have sent Hugh back as a weapon to try to destroy them as his superiors apparently wanted? Again, we're second-guessing the fans and delivering something that's not true to the character development seen on the show.

The other two really aren't even worth discussing, they're just formula rubbish, some fan service in the form of ship battles for fans that like that and our favourite characters in poorly written stories in the hopes of netting some cash without any real intent to tell a good yarn. Disappointing.

The TOS shows seem genius by comparison because they are self-contained and have compelling stories that have an arc. The TNG shows feel like they're playing things safe when in fact they should have broken out and just told some good stories without worrying about how fans would feel about an emotional Data, or the need to make a new ship to define the films separately from the TV series or indeed even featuring every character from the show and giving them lines which basically ended up giving short-shrift to characters that were quite strong in the TV series.

TNG films...FAIL!

 

[Peach Wookiee]

It could be argued that Hugh was different from the rest of the Collective, though. He regained himself...