Why the hatred for Voyager?

[misskim86]

Hmm of course if a show was episodic and really good, yeah I'd watch it but I would never invest money in it today. The general audience simply outgrew it in my opinion.

I would forgive a Star Trek show if it had 5-6 shows out of 25 each season as episodic, but no more in todays tv show climate.

I DO agree with you about the dark and gritty thing, that's stupid, Star Trek isn't suposed to be dark and gritty, even during the darkest hours of war they had uplifting episodes like Take me out to the holosuite. The best part of Trek is that the few times they actually have the gritty episodes they are so much more special. If every episode was all dark and gloomy it'd hardly be special anymore

 

[P0sitr0nic]

honestly, for me, the reason i disliked voyager on the whole was :

In DS9, we got to know and care for the characters. TNG as well.
After 7 years of show, I knew more about GARAK, a secondary NON MAIN cast DS9 character, than I knew about Harry Kim, a MAIN cast VOY character. Voyager never gave us enough to care about.

 

[donners22]

Actually, funnily enough I met Garrett Wang at a convention a couple of months ago. His introduction was that he wanted to show he was more than, "Shields down to 50 percent, captain". It's kinda disturbing that the character wasn't much more than that after seven seasons.

Still, there's no denying the terrific arc that the Doctor and Seven went through. Watching the early episodes, I'm amazed at how far the Doctor came.

 

[Anwar]

Might be because chars like Garak and the Doctor are inherently more interesting than just some guy fresh out of the Academy.

I mean, with O'Brien we had his background as a Cardassian War Veteran, Bashir and his genetic augmentation, Garak as an Ex-Obsidian Order Agent, Sisko as the Emissary, Kira and her past as a freedom fighter, etc.

Compared to that, a guy who really has no background isn't all that interesting to write about. They should've given him some kind of dynamic to begin with and work from that.

 

[Malcom]

misskim86 said:
I hate Voyager because in my opinion Voyager is what started the slow death of Star Trek.

Star Trek had to evolve like any TV have to, constantly. TNG was great for its time and it is still great, but DS9 brought the franchise one step further, introducing incredible stor arches. DS9 was way ahead of its time, and can be compared to shows that exists today like LOST, Prison Break, 24, rome, etc in terms of big long story arches.

But because of the fact it was ahead of its time the ratings weren't the best, so instead of at least continuing on the same track, they took one step BACK and returned to the old tried TNG practise of a new forehead ridged alien of the week complete with a big juicy reset button.

Then we come to ENT around 2002 and by now the long story arched shows really started to come from channels like HBO, DS9 would probably have fared MUCH better here, but what do they do? Instead of bringing Star Trek up to speed with current TV they just simply continue their ridged alien of the week with a reset button.

I'm sorry what worked in 1989 will not work in 2002.

So anyway, I hate VOY because it was the knife that slowly caused Star Trek to bleed to death

My sibs and friends, who have been watching Trek since first run all HATED DS9. Many think the bleed started there.

And if you're going to try and play the 'DS9 was more sophisticated' card, learn to spell 'arcs'!

 

[misskim86]

Lol, the first sign someone has run out of arguments is when you start to pick on peoples spelling. I've never said it was more sophisticated so I dunno what your problem is, did someone beat you while screaming DS9 was more sophisticated?

Anyway, tell your siblings and friends to actually watch DS9 from the very first episode to the very last and they will change their minds.

As I said I never ever mentioned DS9 being more sophisticated, I bet people would claim VOY is most sophisticated since it was really politically correct and all. DS9 was better though.

Ds9 was a huge step forward in the right direction while VOY was a big step back, history proves me right since ENT flopped like hell while all the really popular shows today are extremely story arc driven, very much more so than how DS9 was back in the day even.

 

[Anwar]

Fact is, VOY still had nothing to do with "The Death of Trek", since that started more around the time of DS9's premiere, years before VOY.

If anything really hurt Trek in the public eye, it was the mediocre TNG Movies.

 

[Guy Gardener]

What about the awesome ones? I mean one. What about the awesome one? Did that do anything at all to help?

 

[Malcom]

I dunno what your problem is, did someone beat you while screaming DS9 was more sophisticated

A newbie that wasn't here while Voyager was on the air...

Anyway, tell your siblings and friends to actually watch DS9 from the very first episode to the very last and they will change their minds.

Such certainty! They just didn't like the characters, as much as they liked Brooks. Hated the lounge singer, hated the traders, etc. I have many friends who love the series, but a lot of friends who don't. It's a matter of taste.

As I said I never ever mentioned DS9 being more sophisticated, I bet people would claim VOY is most sophisticated since it was really politically correct and all.

Ah...sounds like you are the one with the political agenda....

Ds9 was a huge step forward in the right direction while VOY was a big step back, history proves me right since ENT flopped like hell while all the really popular shows today are extremely story arc driven, very much more so than how DS9 was back in the day even.

Hmmm...not really a 'cause and effect' situation. Each Trek series was broadcast under very different network circumstances and different networks. A closer look at "history" will make this clear.

Different strokes for different folks. It's that simple. I can't imagine spending my spare time on a discussion board of a show I didn't like. But, different strokes for different folks.

 

[misskim86]

Your siblings didn't like "the lounge singer"... jeez

Well I can understand their dislike for DS9 then since he was such an integral person for the show, not to mention practicly in every episode.

Who were "the traders" ?

It's clear to me the persons you mention who disliked the show didn't watch it all. As good as DS9 is, if you don't watch the whole bunch of it you will most likely not like it. It's like watching episode 5 of season 2 in Prison break as your first episode.

Every show today almost is like that. You have to watch all of Lost, Prison Break, Sopranos etc, if you just watch a random episode there's no way in hell you will like it

 

[Guy Gardener]

That is an excellent quality, that any episode of Voyager can be played after Caretaker and it can seem continuous. Excellent for the meek and easily confused.

 

[Dac]

Everyone whos clamoring on about Voyagers lack of an arc...um, unlike TNG/DS9 the very point of it was to tell a single story over seven years, which, you have to admit, it DID. Admittedly, not everyone thinks it did it well mind you, but Unlike TNG which rarely had continuing stories which lasted more than 2 episodes or DS9 which went for a couple of series before the longer arcs came in, Voyager was linked together by the journey home right from the start. Admittedly, one can make an equally strong comparison about TNG and its "Continuing mission" served as an arc, but compared to a focused plot point I personally believe Voyager was the most "arc-ish" show than the two.

As for the Kim thing, I agree he wasnt developed well, but what about Geordi on TNG? He had a sister and a crush on Leah Brahms...er? How much else do I know about him? Do I let my lack of knowledge on TNG ruin my enjoyment of the show? No, because I can look past one character and enjoy the show. Hell, the main stars who work well with the audience in the first series (in VOYs case say Janeway, The Doc and Neelix for the sake of arguement) automatically got the best stories because the general audience (which is more than us lot here) liked them moreso than others.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Dac said:

As for the Kim thing, I agree he wasn't developed well,

I'm sure were not allowed to pass around rumours about the cast's genitals.

 

[misskim86]

I don't think we should complain about TNG. TNG is the first real show after the reboot and the benchmark for what we compare the rest to.

DS9 was a great next step for how Star Trek should be, that's why VOY was a huge step back, even if it was as good as TNG (Which it imo wasn't)

 

[Akiraprise]

Guy Gardener said:
That is an excellent quality, that any episode of Voyager can be played after Caretaker and it can seem continuous. Excellent for the meek and easily confused.

C'mon Guy. There's no need to put yourself down like that. I know for a fact you don't confuse easily after some of the debates you've had in this forum.

 

[Nebusj]

Dac said:
As for the Kim thing, I agree he wasnt developed well, but what about Geordi on TNG? He had a sister and a crush on Leah Brahms...er? How much else do I know about him?

Hang on there. You're confusing ``development'' with trivia. The question is, what are the things LaForge will do that another person in the same spot might not do, or what are the things he would do differently? Similarly, what would Kim do in a given situation that's different from what someone else might? That's development. The names of their elementary school class pets are not development.

 

[Malcom]

Response to misskim86

Who were "the traders" ?

The Ferengi. Hated 'em. Still do.

It's clear to me the persons you mention who disliked the show didn't watch it all. As good as DS9 is, if you don't watch the whole bunch of it you will most likely not like it.

Again, how do you know they "didn't watch it"?

Your thesis is that DS9 is universally liked and admired by all who watched it. It isn't. Can't you accept that some people just didn't like it?

People who like Trek, are good to their neighbors, have attention spans the enable them to read long novels, watch the Sopranos and keep track of the Iowa Caucuses just might not like it?

Working on Capitol Hill made me just not interested in going home and watching an hour of political feuds and maneuvering. Didn't watch "West Wing" for the same reason. I hear it's a great show. Fine. I just didn't feel like watching it.

Why do you have a problem with that? Some people don't like Tchaikovsky's music. That's okay. They prefer Mozart. So what? It's different strokes for different folks.

 

[Ezri]

Have a problem why people would hate Voyager. It was good. It did have poor spots with the show like the Year of Hell. Still, all in all it was not that bad. Kes was not that bad, she was 2 years old dating Neelix that look like a rodent. True, a grown man dating a two year old … still nobody had a problem with that.

 

[kipron]

Meh. I'm glad that Voyager was what it was.

We wouldn't have had BSG otherwise. :thumbsup:

 

[kipron]

misskim86 said:

startrekwatcher said:

misskim86 said:
Weekly shows with huge story arches WERE a new concept in 93. You can't compare it to a day time soap sorry, it's not the same thing. Trek = once a week, day time soap = every day.

Tell that to Dallas which premiered in the late '70s.

Yeah you're right Dallas and the Dynasty were also fore runners.

But to Trek as a whole DS9 was a huge new concept

Babylon 5 was the new concept. Trek just ripped it off.