The Force is supposed to be something abstract and zen, not something scientifically quantifiable.
Why the hate for the Midi-chlorians?
- Thread starter M.A.C.O.
- Start date
BINGO! The ONLY reason (no matter what Lucas says) that midi-chlorians were introduced is that ol' George needed some way to show that Anakin was 'super cereal guys' and George was either too lazy or lacked enough creativity to find some other way to show that Little Half Orphan Annie was the bomb.
Which point was subsequently undermined throughout the rest of the Prequels, up to the point when Obi-Wan made julienne Jedi out of him because apparently Anakin's super Force powers disappeared when one opponent was standing on a slightly higher surface.
In my mind midi-chlorians show the depths that Lucas will go to support his bad decision making.
"Hey let's have Darth Vader be a kid"
"Dude, that sounds like a terrible decision"
"Nah, lets work with it... oh and lets have him be the product of immaculate conception"
"That sounds even worse"
"Nah, we'll cover it all up with the fact that little whatsits are in his bloodstream and he has lots of whatsits, more than even...umm... Yoda! More than Yoda!"
"That is the worse idea I have ever heard George"
"Who signs your paycheck son?"
"I meant: great idea Mr. Lucas!"
Blasphemy against The Force shall not be forgiven!
Midichlorians = stupidest idea Lucas ever had, imo.
In the OT, the Force was akin to those times when some seemingly external Force would interfere in life in a magical way and could happen to anyone.
Midichlorians = stupidest idea Lucas ever had, imo.
In the OT, the Force was akin to those times when some seemingly external Force would interfere in life in a magical way and could happen to anyone.
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Eh, I'll take mudichlorians over Jar-Jar.
It's interesting that George Lucas originally mentioned the idea of midi-chlorians way back in 1977, as part of some guidelines for writers of tie-in books, comics, etc. (what would later become known as the "expanded universe"). See the book The Making of Star Wars: The Definitive Story Behind the Original Film, p. 353.
He just didn't get a chance to depict the concept on screen until 1999.
Kor
He just didn't get a chance to depict the concept on screen until 1999.
Kor
That whole storyline probably should have been in Episode III, to be honest. Instead of Yoda going off to Kashyyyk on his own and surviving Order 66, have him see the visions he saw in the show and he runs off on his own shortly before Order 66 goes down. Alas...
When I hear the phrase "cosmetic technobabble", I think first and foremost of Star Trek. Supposing for the sake of argument that there are some things which deserve that description - to the point of not being able to even claim status as an idea - I don't see how midichlorians qualify. There's nothing cosmetic about it. To the contrary, it's the core concept that is considered a problem. It was, in fact, a new idea, and some people don't like it. That's fine. But how did we get from "I don't like this idea" to "this idea I which I don't like is not actually an idea at all"?
Kor said:
He actually didn't. He retroactively added a line about midichlorians to the passage in question when the book The Making of Star Wars was being prepared. So the book is quite misleading on this point. However, it is true that back then he envisioned an alien race whose members were genetically stronger in the Force than humans. That part does not appear to have been retroactively added to the 1977 material.
Jedi_Master said:
Once again, for those at all familiar with the content of the film, he did. It was the point of one of the major set-pieces of the film, you couldn't miss it. ( Well, maybe you could. ) Anakin with zero Jedi training was not only the only human who could successfully podrace but also displayed amazing ESP ability, and this is all before we take Naboo into consideration. It's not a question of what "Lucas says", it's a question of what's in the film. Midichlorians fill the same niche that was filled by the "Force paddles" in the old EU. At some point, a writer in this setting finds himself or herself obliged to explain how populations are screened for Force-sensitives.
TremblingBluStar said:
It's kind of irrelevant to Luke's training in the OT. He already has the midichlorians he needs; whatever he needs from Obi-Wan and Yoda is of a different nature. And judging from the example of Darth Plagueis, midichlorian manipulation is mostly a Sith thing.
Ithekro said:
They were no less mystical in the first place, given their special relationship to the Force which is shared by no other life-form. Thanks to The Clone Wars, we now know they came from a specific planet. I guess that's something!
Ithekro said:
TCW did no such thing. The arc didn't portray any of the Jedi beliefs as "wrong", unless we're talking about the assumption on the part of Jedi such as Ki-Adi-Mundi that something like Force ghosting could not be possible.
Ithekro said:
But TCW doesn't discuss a balance between the Living Force and the Cosmic Force, while the OT characters didn't use the word "balance" in any context at all. Neither the balance of the Force nor the explicit Living/Cosmic breakdown had been invented by that point. The Mortis arc of TCW demonstrates that the balance of the Force is between the light side and the dark side.
Trekker4747 said:
Except for calling it an "energy field". That sounds a little sciencey.
Trekker4747 said:
Two distinct topics are being conflated here: Force sensitivity among individuals, and the nature of the Force itself. It is only biologically innate Force potential that can be measured.
If a so-called religion "has obvious effects" then what we really mean is that it works - it's something testable, something that one can depend on under the right conditions, something that could, if necessary, be demonstrated to even the most hard-bitten skeptic. Sound familiar? That's something a lot like science and wholly unlike what we generally mean when we use the term 'religion' in a real-world context.
Yeah, if it were hereditary you'd expect the Jedi to behave like the Bene Gesserit and selectively breed for stronger Jedi.
Well that assumes that Midi-Chlorians have a multiplying effect when two force users consummate and conceive. Although, I wager that when a person with a high Midi-Chlorian count (a Jedi Knight or Sith Lord) does conceive, their children will be Force sensitive.
Luke and Leia got their Force powers from Anakin.
Kylo got his Force powers from Leia.
Etc.
I've kind of got a theory going in my head that has made me appreciate the PT in a different way. I wondered if Lucas was deriving more from Dune than just a desert planet. I wonder if he was trying to craft a political scenario similar the complications of the Senate, the Chancellor and the Jedi, similar to the Great Houses, the Emperor and the Bene Gesserit.
I think Anakin was supposed to like Paul in his abilities, and that the power he had he couldn't quite control despite his best efforts. That's an idea that could have worked and I see echoes of it but I don't think it was effective.
As for Jedi breeding, there is definitely an indication that Force ability continues by family. Maybe the Council wants to control it, but then I could see a Bene Gesserit situation happening of breeding for the perfect Jedi, only for it to backfire.
It has interesting possibilities.
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Yeah--but that leads to Derrida, Michel Foucault, and different ways of knowing.
ugh
No, a scientific rational doesn't bastardize anything--or make the universe any less wonderous.
It does make the Jedi like the Atrides family from DUNE--fooling folks into thinking they are holy god-men. If they were that zen--they would have seen through the Emporer early on
"They see your future. They know your power will be too strong to control." - Palpatine