Why the Borg?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Picard' started by Gingerbread Demon, Oct 27, 2020.

  1. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Huh? They leave Starfleet because their son had a terminal illness and they choose to live on a planet where the soil has confirmed regenerative properties in the hopes it could maybe be of benefit to their son, prolong his life if not offer a possible cure. How does that make them hippies?
     
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  2. NCC-73515

    NCC-73515 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Was the line that he's still on the active duty list (or something like that) added after that decision?
     
  3. jackoverfull

    jackoverfull Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Well, more like they retired and chose to live close to nature, but the house had shields, advanced communications and sensors…
     
  4. Gingerbread Demon

    Gingerbread Demon Admiral Premium Member

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    No not that I mean the kind of home they made for themselves. Not much in the way of mod cons.
    Also the planet they live on has Kzinti. Haven't heard of those since the animated series.
     
  5. Happenstance

    Happenstance Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    I can't imagine Riker not being in that scene, it was so good. The smile he gives as he listens to Picard giving his speech is amazing.
     
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  6. jackoverfull

    jackoverfull Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    for us fans it was great, but storywise it would have been a redeeming moment for the admiral.
     
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  7. Happenstance

    Happenstance Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    That's the thing with Admiral Clancy though. As much as I dislike her and her unnecessary swearing, she doesn't really have much need of redemption. Yes she turned Picard away at first when he had no real evidence but she still took the time to have his claims looked into, it just unfortunately went to the wrong person. Once Picard brought her real evidence she was completely behind him.
     
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  8. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The admiral sending the ships was her redemption. Her commanding the fleet would make no sense.
     
  9. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, the "cavalry coming to the rescue" trope almost always needs the cavalry to be led by a familiar character for it to have emotional resonance. That's why it was Han Solo who swooped in at the last minute to save Luke in A New Hope, Gandalf who leads the army in The Return of the King, Deleen who led the Minbari fleet in Babylon 5 "Severed Dreams," Sansa who leads the Knights of the Vale in Game of Thrones "The Battle of the Bastards," L'Rell and Siriana who led the Klingon and Kelpian fleets in DIS "Such Sweet Sorrow, Part II," Sulu in command of the Excelsior in TUC, etc.
     
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  10. Mister Spock

    Mister Spock Commander Red Shirt

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    You mean the house that was outfitted with deflector shields, a replicator, a voice-activated computer, scanner systems and a barbeque; where their teenage daughter played with her futuristic mobile phone at the dinner table?
     
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  11. Gingerbread Demon

    Gingerbread Demon Admiral Premium Member

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    Yes that house :) But it looked like a shack with nothing to give all that away.
     
  12. TimeIsAPredator

    TimeIsAPredator Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    [​IMG]
     
  13. Eric1981

    Eric1981 Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Voyager already defanged the Borg for me. I still enjoyed the borg episodes but I just miss when the Borg were mysterious merciless forces of the galaxy assimilating everything in their way like a nasty nightmare of a vacuum.
     
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  14. TimeIsAPredator

    TimeIsAPredator Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    They were fine in Scorpion but the panto villain queen and her obsession with Voyager was what ruined it.

    I know FC done it first but movies get more leeway in my head for some reason
     
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  15. jackoverfull

    jackoverfull Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Well, in First Contact the Queen still had mystery and pathos, by the end of Voyager she was just your run of the mill sexy whiny evil queen killing mooks for no reason.
     
  16. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Indeed, yes. They lacked any sort of punch, and became very generic bad guys. The Queen didn't add a whole lot, and for a Collective hive mind she became rather singularly focused to the detriment of the Borg.
     
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  17. Mister Spock

    Mister Spock Commander Red Shirt

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    This is your idea of a shack?
    [​IMG]
     
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  18. Char Kais

    Char Kais Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    The Borg didn't matter for Picard until he learned that Soji was on the cube at the end of episode 5 and he was off the cube at the end of episode 6. It didn't matter that much for Picard's story. The Borg cube was just a set piece that was dangled in front of the audience.


    One of the many problems I have with NuTrek are the unearned emotional moments and overemotional reactions. The reunion with Hugh was one of those moments.
    When Picard and Hugh depart at the end of "Descent Part 2", they had one scene together, they don't shake hands, they just say "good luck and goodbye".
    The first thing they do in PIC is to hug as if they are best friends. Picard and Hugh were not friends. Geordi and Hugh were friends.
    29 years have passed between TNGS07E01 and STPS01E06. They even make a point that Picard and Hugh never met in that time, even after Hugh became a Federation citizen.
    People who find this scene so fantastic misremember the kind of relationship these characters have and the writers of STP exploit this.


    For me this was frustrating and a sign of lazy writing.
    The Borg are still monsters. Borg drones that are separated from the collective are not monsters but victims that can be rehabilitated.
    WOW! What a great revelation!
    Did you watch TNG? That is the story of "I Borg"! Picard knows that because he learned that in that episode. What did Picard learn that he didn't know in TNG? Only the scale? This is such a clumsily written character flaw.
    The writers made him regress so that they can write a story where he goes through the same character development again.
    The development of ex-Borg was also a theme in many VOY episodes. Picard knows about Seven (and presumably about other ex-Borg from Voyager), why he does view ex-Borg as monsters is incomprehensible.

    Do you know what would have been an interesting story? How different A/B Quadrant societies react to ex-Borg.
     
  19. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I figured it was Picard just glad to see someone whom knows his pain. Same with Seven. There is the idea of shared trauma that resonates deeply with people and despite brief contact the shared pain results in a good bond.

    I couldn't give a shit about the Borg, but Picard made it more accessible for me.

    I don't see it has poor writing, since it takes Picard through an emotional journey that resonates with members of the audience.
     
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  20. Gingerbread Demon

    Gingerbread Demon Admiral Premium Member

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    7 of 9 should become good Borg Queen again