Why switch to Kirk from Pike?

[MikeH92467]

On a side note, I'm interested as to where Roddenberry may have gotten the name for Mr. Spock. About the time that Roddenberry was first pitching Star Trek, the first novel of Jack Vance's "Demon Princes" space opera series came out. In that book, "The Star King", one of the major villians is hiding out and using the alias of "Mr. Spock". I'm just curious as to whether Roddenberry ever read that space opera novel, or if it is just a coincidence.

Almost surely a coincidence. I don't think Roddenberry was especially well-read in science fiction. He'd never heard of Benjamin Spock, the famous baby doctor, either. He just picked a name that he thought had a strong sound.

In "The Making of Star Trek" Stephen Whitfield recounted that GR's original thought was to have Vulcan names start with SP and end with a K. This led to a hilarious memo war between GR and the rest of the command team about suggested names. I won't recount it here, but it was a good example of how creative people in a pressure cooker environment blow off steam.

 

[number6]

On a side note, I'm interested as to where Roddenberry may have gotten the name for Mr. Spock. About the time that Roddenberry was first pitching Star Trek, the first novel of Jack Vance's "Demon Princes" space opera series came out. In that book, "The Star King", one of the major villians is hiding out and using the alias of "Mr. Spock". I'm just curious as to whether Roddenberry ever read that space opera novel, or if it is just a coincidence.

Almost surely a coincidence. I don't think Roddenberry was especially well-read in science fiction. He'd never heard of Benjamin Spock, the famous baby doctor, either. He just picked a name that he thought had a strong sound.

In "The Making of Star Trek" Stephen Whitfield recounted that GR's original thought was to have Vulcan names start with SP and end with a K. This led to a hilarious memo war between GR and the rest of the command team about suggested names. I won't recount it here, but it was a good example of how creative people in a pressure cooker environment blow off steam.

Spilk and Spurk were among my personal favourites.

 

[Timby]

I had THOUGHT it was mentioned in the Solow/Justman book, but maybe i was mistaken.

You're not mistaken. In the Solow/Justman book, Justman talks about how when the scheduling was nearing an impossible stage, and he and Solow looked at each other and remembered that they had ninety minutes of "The Cage" just sitting in a vault, never seen by viewers' eyes.

Justman then went into detail about how Hunter's wife (not his agent, not a rep, but his wife) came into the studio after the shooting of "The Cage" and went on a tirade about how "This is not the angle Jeffrey likes to be shot in," "This is not the kind of material Jeffrey does," "This is not Jeffrey's kind of show," etc. They contacted Hunter anyway, to see if he'd be willing to come back for a few days, but he flatly turned them down.

 

[ToddPence]

Excerpt from "The Star King" by Jack Vance, which first appeared in magazine form in 1964:

"He came forward, fearlessly swaggering. 'Who are you, that's in Mr. Spock's house? Looking through Mr. Spock's things? A burglar, I think.'
Gersen replaced the book, and the Imp said, 'That's one of his precious volumes, that bit of stuff. Not likely he wants your fingers all over it. I'd better go for the constable.'
'Come back here,' said Gerson. 'Who are you?'
'I'm the by-your-leave caretaker, that's who I am. Also this is my land and my house and my freehold. Mr. Spock is the man I let to, and why should I give every burglar north of Swansea leave to pillage and loot?'
'Mr. Spock is a criminal,' said Gersen."

 

[indranee]

He probably decided that "James T. Kirk" was a stronger name more befitting a captain of a starship. J, T, and K are good, strong letters that fit a hero or leading character well.

so when did GR et al decide on the T and the "Tiberius"? wasn't there an "R" middle initial shown in WNMHGB?

 

[Elder Knight]

...
In "The Making of Star Trek" Stephen Whitfield recounted that GR's original thought was to have Vulcan names start with SP and end with a K. This led to a hilarious memo war between GR and the rest of the command team about suggested names. I won't recount it here, but it was a good example of how creative people in a pressure cooker environment blow off steam. ...

And, all the Vulcan women had names beginning with T'P.

That would make a great cartoon. Some Vulcan tree with lovers initials inscribed in kidney-shaped hearts . . . ALL of them reading "Sp. & T'P."

 

[Captain Robert April]

He probably decided that "James T. Kirk" was a stronger name more befitting a captain of a starship. J, T, and K are good, strong letters that fit a hero or leading character well.

so when did GR et al decide on the T and the "Tiberius"? wasn't there an "R" middle initial shown in WNMHGB?

I suspect that the "R" was intended to stand for "Robert", as a small tribute to Roddenberry's brother, but in the intervening time between that pilot and the next time Kirk's middle initial became an issue, he forgot that they'd hung the middle initial R on Kirk (just how between Amazing Fantasy #15 and Amazing Spider-Man #1, Stan Lee forgot Spidey's name and called him Peter Palmer), and Roddenberry already had a penchant for giving characters the middle name of Tiberius (just as he'd done with Gary Lockwood's character on "The Lieutenant"). Another bit that might or might not have played a factor is the introduction of James West in the pilot of "The Wild, Wild West", as "Captain James T. West", about a year before Star Trek went into production. If Roddenberry saw that first episode, I'm sure the sound of that name would've made an impression.

 

[Maurice]

I had THOUGHT it was mentioned in the Solow/Justman book, but maybe i was mistaken.

You're not mistaken. In the Solow/Justman book, Justman talks about how when the scheduling was nearing an impossible stage, and he and Solow looked at each other and remembered that they had ninety minutes of "The Cage" just sitting in a vault, never seen by viewers' eyes.

Justman then went into detail about how Hunter's wife (not his agent, not a rep, but his wife) came into the studio after the shooting of "The Cage" and went on a tirade about how "This is not the angle Jeffrey likes to be shot in," "This is not the kind of material Jeffrey does," "This is not Jeffrey's kind of show," etc. They contacted Hunter anyway, to see if he'd be willing to come back for a few days, but he flatly turned them down.

I don't think you're quoting Inside Star Trek at all. You put quotation marks around the above, but it isn't what the book actually says.

Let's be accurate. Here are quotes from the book re Mrs. Hunter (emphasis added):

HERB: ...Gene and I waited in the Desilu projection room for him to arrive. He never did. Arriving in his stead was actress Sandy Bartlett, Mrs. Jeff Hunter. We traded hellos and I nodded to Gene...
...As the lights came up, Jeff Hunter's wife gave us our answer: "This is not the kind of show Jeff wants to do, and besides, it wouldn't be good for his career. Jeff Hunter is a movie star." Mrs. Hunter was very polite and very firm. She said her good-byes and left...

--Inside Star Trek (hardcover), p. 63​

Or can you point me to a quote I'm missing?

As to making a feature out of The Cage, I used the index to look up every instance of Jeffrey Hunter in the book, and below is the only quote I found re that subject:

A year earlier, Jeffrey Hunter had rebuffed Roddenberry's request to shoot added scenes to lengthen the pilot and and attempt to get a theatrical release for it. The was no way Hunter would would cooperate to redo it for a television episode.

--Inside Star Trek (hardcover), p. 251​

 

[Therin of Andor]

so when did GR et al decide on the T and the "Tiberius"?

The "what does the T stand for?" was the product of a panel at one of the first big LA ST conventions in the early 70s. During the panel, David Gerrold coined "Tiberius" and he then made sure to use in in "Bem" (TAS).

During a similar (or the same?) panel, DC Fontana came up with the unpronouncable Vulcan surname to which Amanda referred in "Journey to Babel"; a name ("Xtmprsqzntwlfd") that was later used in Geoffrey Mandel's semi-pro, unlicensed publication, "USS Enterprise Officers' Manual".

 

[Christopher]

so when did GR et al decide on the T and the "Tiberius"?

The "what does the T stand for?" was the product of a panel at one of the first big LA ST conventions in the early 70s. During the panel, David Gerrold coined "Tiberius" and he then made sure to use in in "Bem" (TAS).

I doubt he coined it, since Roddenberry had already used that middle name for Lt. William T. Rice in The Lieutenant. Gerrold was probably either making an in-joke about that show or passing on something Roddenberry or one of the other TOS staffers had already told him.

 

[Shatmandu]

During a similar (or the same?) panel, DC Fontana came up with the unpronouncable Vulcan surname to which Amanda referred in "Journey to Babel"; a name ("Xtmprsqzntwlfd") ...

Every seven years, he says his name backward and pops to Vulcan for sex?

Joe, on the same track

 

[Brian]

DC Fontana came up with the unpronouncable Vulcan surname to which Amanda referred in "Journey to Babel"; a name ("Xtmprsqzntwlfd") that was later used in Geoffrey Mandel's semi-pro, unlicensed publication, "USS Enterprise Officers' Manual".

That's pronouncable. Ex-temper-squeezin-towel-fed.

But thank the gods it was never canonized.

 

[indranee]

thanks, guys. it's interesting that "Tiberius" came so much later and no one bothered to actually flesh the "T" out during TOS.

 

[Ronald Held]

KLTPZYXM (Poof!)

 

[Therin of Andor]

I doubt he coined it, since Roddenberry had already used that middle name for Lt. William T. Rice in The Lieutenant. Gerrold was probably either making an in-joke about that show or passing on something Roddenberry or one of the other TOS staffers had already told him.

If I recall my anecdotes correctly, David Gerrold suggested the name at the panel as an appropriate name that started with "T". Other panelists suggested other names starting with "T". And GR was at that convention, agreed that Tiberius was appropriate for Kirk - and when it came to TAS Season Two, DG made sure the name was used.

 

[Therin of Andor]

That's pronouncable. Ex-temper-squeezin-towel-fed.
But thank the gods it was never canonized.

Amazing coincidence that poor deluded Sybok went on his search for God because his surname was exactly the same as the Andorian word for Eden.

 

[Captain Robert April]

Interesting, since Fontana came up with something quite different when writing her novel "Vulcan's Glory".

According to that book, Spock's full name clocks in as Spock, Son of Sarek, House of Surak, of the Noble Clan Talek-sen-deen, if memory serves.

I think the unprouncible part is trying to say it in Vulcan.

 

[Timo]

Indeed, why do we have to assume that an "unpronounceable" word would have to be complex?

I mean, "Timo" is unpronounceable enough. Try it, and you will fail. That is, unless you are fluent in Finnish, which has its own pronunciation rules. My pronunciation of "Robert" might be a bit better, because our planet is full of auditory sources for the proper English or American pronunciation. Fluently spoken Vulcan might be as rare in the Trek universe as fluently spoken Finnish is in ours, though.

I gather that Kirk's pronunciation of "Spock" is atrocious enough that our good Science Officer politely but sternly refuses to listen to any human attempt to pronounce the family name "Carl".

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Warped9]

Interesting, since Fontana came up with something quite different when writing her novel "Vulcan's Glory".

According to that book, Spock's full name clocks in as Spock, Son of Sarek, House of Surak, of the Noble Clan Talek-sen-deen, if memory serves.

I think the unprouncible part is trying to say it in Vulcan.

It's a mouthful rattling it off in English.

 

[Captain Robert April]

It also goes to Kirk addressing Amanda as "Mrs. Sarek" in "Journey to Babel" as being the rough equivalent of calling my wife "Mrs. Bob".