Why switch to Kirk from Pike?

[Noname Given]

Actually, that's a myth. Both Lost in Space and Gilligan's Island had second pilots ordered and produced before CBS purchased the shows. Even GR's comments on the situation is that it was "virtually unheard of..."; but Star Trek was not the first show in TV history to have a second pilot ordered.

Not exactly. Strictly speaking, there's a difference between a pilot and a first episode. A pilot is a demo reel for the series, a tool for selling it to the network. In the case of Lost in Space, the original pilot succeeded in selling the show to the network, but then, after the network had ordered production to begin, the show was restructured in a way that required breaking up the pilot footage across four of the first five episodes.* In the case of Gilligan's Island, the original pilot failed to win over the network, but Sherwood Schwartz then made a different cut that was closer to what he wanted (and added the famous theme song) and had it screened for test audiences, whose phenomenally strong reactions finally convinced CBS to buy the show. Again, it was only after the show had been sold that the network ordered changes that led to the original pilot not being used as the premiere episode (with much of it being cut into a flashback episode later in the season).**

The Star Trek case is very different. Saying "We're buying your show, now we want you to make these changes and give us a new/altered first episode" is one thing. Saying "We're not buying your show, but we're willing to pay you to make a totally new attempt to sell it to us a second time" is a whole other thing. Never before had a network footed the bill for a whole second pilot of a show they hadn't even bought yet.

*Source: James Van Hise, Lost in Space 25th Anniversary Tribute Book (Pioneer, 1990), p. 7
**Source: Joey Green, The Unofficial Gilligan's Island Handbook (Warner, 1988), pp. 5-7

That's interesting because with regards to LiS, I thought the Netwrk paned the original pilot; and told Irwin Allen that he needed more drama, so he then did a second pilot that included the 'evil spy' character of Doctor Zachary Smith; recut using some of the first pilot footage to make the second pilot, and that's when CBS greenlight.

As for Gilligan's Island - I have read that yes, the first pilot was indeed recut; and based on that recut the network then ordered another pilot (but didn't pony up the full cost, so Schwartz put up a portion of the funds for the second pilot himself); and there were (like in Star Trek too) some major cast revisions (there was a female secretary named 'Bunny' in the first pilot, who was completely ropped and replaced with a brand new character 'Ginger'; because audiences hated that character; and also the personalities and character backgrounds of a few other characters were also reworked. The original pilot couldn'tr be aired because it was just too disconnected from the changes in the second pilot - which does mirror what was done with the two Star Trek pilots to a great degree.

But

 

[PlainPatrick]

(Note: I did not read beyond the "Proposition/Question") Here is my thought.Forget any significance to teh names. Perhaps Gene R, as foresighted as he was, knew that one day Star Trek might become the phenomenon it is. Don't laugh. maybe he did. now suppose all this time it had been Kirk in both. What do you do with the menagerie? Suppose he kept the name and didn't film the Menagerie? Wouldn't you miss The Menagerie? Stop saying posts about "why why why" start addressing what exists.

 

[Christopher]

That's interesting because with regards to LiS, I thought the Netwrk paned the original pilot; and told Irwin Allen that he needed more drama, so he then did a second pilot that included the 'evil spy' character of Doctor Zachary Smith; recut using some of the first pilot footage to make the second pilot, and that's when CBS greenlight.

They didn't do a second pilot. Rather, they shot new footage incorporating Smith and the Robot into the existing pilot footage, spreading the original pilot content out among episodes 1, 3, 4, and 5. And according to the book, it was Irwin Allen and story editor Anthony Wilson who decided on their own initiative that it was necessary to add the Smith character for greater drama, after the show had been bought.

As for Gilligan's Island - I have read that yes, the first pilot was indeed recut; and based on that recut the network then ordered another pilot (but didn't pony up the full cost, so Schwartz put up a portion of the funds for the second pilot himself); and there were (like in Star Trek too) some major cast revisions (there was a female secretary named 'Bunny' in the first pilot, who was completely ropped and replaced with a brand new character 'Ginger'; because audiences hated that character; and also the personalities and character backgrounds of a few other characters were also reworked. The original pilot couldn'tr be aired because it was just too disconnected from the changes in the second pilot - which does mirror what was done with the two Star Trek pilots to a great degree.

I still think you're blurring the ideas of a pilot in the technical sense of a demo reel for a show that hasn't been sold yet and a pilot in the informal sense of just a first episode of a purchased series. Those are often the same thing, but not automatically. Yes, they reshot portions of the Gilligan pilot in order to create a new first episode for broadcast, but that new episode was not technically a pilot, not a film created to pitch the series to a network that hadn't bought it yet. First the network bought it, then they demanded the cast changes. In fact, they wanted changes in all the characters, and Schwartz was only able to win four battles out of seven. Although I've seen the original pilot -- TNT or TBS showed it once -- and it's definitely for the better that CBS won those three battles.

From the Joey Green book, pp. 7-8:

What eventually reached the air in late September was a pastiche of three separate shows, including half of the pilot, welded together by the CBS group think. "The first episode was meant to be the second episode," says Schwartz, who wanted the pilot to air first. "They're already on the island and trying to get off, and it didn't make any sense. The actual pilot was the Christmas episode [Episode 12], where I managed to salvage two-thirds of the original pilot as a remembrance of how grateful they all were at Christmastime that they weren't killed in the original wreck."

So the first episode to air was not considered a pilot, not in Sherwood Schwartz's mind, certainly; it was just the second episode's script with the opening portions of the pilot welded onto it. It was not a "second pilot" in the sense of "Where No Man Has Gone Before."

Here is my thought.Forget any significance to teh names. Perhaps Gene R, as foresighted as he was, knew that one day Star Trek might become the phenomenon it is. Don't laugh. maybe he did. now suppose all this time it had been Kirk in both. What do you do with the menagerie? Suppose he kept the name and didn't film the Menagerie? Wouldn't you miss The Menagerie? Stop saying posts about "why why why" start addressing what exists.

You're half right. He did want to reuse the pilot footage, but it wasn't because he thought ST would become a phenomenon. As others have stated above, it was because he didn't want to let that expensive footage go unused. When looking for answers of why anything was done in Hollywood, you can rarely go wrong by looking at it from an economic perspective first. Because this is a business we're talking about.

 

[Stag]

Umm ok, lighten up dude. You can choose not to read posts that ask why, why, why.

Are you saying I cannot ask a legitimate question about something that someone here may have an answer to? The people on this board know a hell of a lot of information about TREK, not just the canon stuff, but the production side which interests me as well. Because of the decisions made back then we are all able to enjoy the rich tapestry that has become TREK-dom and is continuing to grow and prosper. So those small decisions do have long lasting impacts.

Oh and to answer your question, if he didn't film the Menagerie would I miss it - nope I never would have known it existed. Temporal Paradox.

Oh and hang on for a sec - about Gene's foresight. At the time he was pitching TREK, it was nothing more then another show that he was trying to get onto the fall schedule. If it was never was picked up, he would have moved on to something else. He had no idea what it was to become. In fact before TREK aired most TV sci-fi was considered laughable and mostly aimed at kids. That is one of the reasons Lloyd Bridges turned down the Captain's chair, the attitude towards TV sci-fi.

 

[Photoman15]

Shatner a better actor than Jeffrey Hunter? Don't think so. Hunter was Jesus Christ in the big-budget Hollywood movie, The King of Kings.

Back on topic, it was a lucky confluence of events that gave us a backstory for Spock and the Enterprise in the form of the former commander of the ship, Captain PIke. I do seem to recall they did offer the role to Jeffrey Hunter, but he was committed to a Hollywood project at the time.

However, it was pretty clever of the production folks to take the unsold pilot and wrap another story around it.

I want to add that Hunter's career began to founder after King of Kings and his involvement in ST. He died in 1969 from complications of a stroke and a fall suffered as a result of that stroke, it being his second. What would ST be if he was indeed cast as Pike, and then he passed on? Would Nimoy as Spock been the star of the movies? Hmmm.

Red Ranger

Actually had Hunter took the Pike/Kirk role, he might still be alive. He died from that fall because of a previous fall (not stroke) that he had on a movie set (after the Trek pilot). It probably left unfound internal injuries. Had he take Trek, he wouldn't have made the movie where he initially fell.

His wife (General Hospital long time nurse, Jessie Brewer, RN) got in on the negotiations and demanded mucho money (so they would turn it down) saying he was a MOVIE STAR and TV was beneath him (this from a soap actress).

 

[Broccoli]

Then they softened the sound of the captain's name for Jonathan Archer. Maybe that's ultimately what was wrong with Enterprise. If he'd had a strong "K" sound in his name, he probably never would have speechified about gazelles.

Wasn't his original first name going to be Jackson, but was changed when they learned there was a real Jackson Archer (and only one)?

And I am not referring to our resident beloved Bat-Fan.

Edit: Yep.

 

[Skywalker]

Well, thank goodness for that guy, then, because I'm not a fan of the name "Jackson." Not as a first name, anyway. Plus "Jonathan Archer" sounds better.

 

[Warped9]

After all these years of being a TREK fan, a though occurred to me today - why did Gene Roddenberry after the failed first pilot change the main character's name from Pike to Kirk?

I mean, no one outside of NBC execs had seen pilot #1, even though hunter didn't want the part, you could have kept the character's name and simply change the actor. Same with the Captain's overall character - they wanted someone less cerebral and more action oriented. Well all you have to do is re-write the character not re-name him. To me Chris Pike sounds as action oriented as Jim Kirk.

Your thoughts?

The real reason for the change I believe was offscreen. I believe Jeffrey Hunter wasn't really all that keen on committing to an SF series and also his wife/agent was being a royal pain-in-the-ass in negotiating with the studio in regards to Hunter's contract. I think in the end they may have just thought it was easier all around to go with a new actor and create a new character.

 

[ToddPence]

(About "Raintree" I find myself not quite so enthusiastic. )

He ended up using "Raintree" as the navigator's name in 'The Omega Glory' first draft, the one written as a possible second pilot. Lots of interesting differences in that one.

Joe, E-Plebbing his Neesta

The name "Raintree" was also originally intended for the security guard in the version of "The Omega Glory" that ended up getting filmed at the end of the second season. It even appears as such in the final draft script of that episode. However, when David L. Ross was selected for the part, there was a last minute change to the name "Galloway" to correspond with the name of a security he had played in an earlier episode. In the teaser of TOG, Shatner's saying the name "Galloway" even appears to have been dubbed over, as if he had actually said "Raintree" while filming.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I forgot to mention Hunter's performance in The Searchers. Most critics looked favorably on his portrayal, saying he held his own against the brash, larger-than-life John Wayne.

Yes, he was quite good in it.

 

[ToddPence]

On a side note, I'm interested as to where Roddenberry may have gotten the name for Mr. Spock. About the time that Roddenberry was first pitching Star Trek, the first novel of Jack Vance's "Demon Princes" space opera series came out. In that book, "The Star King", one of the major villians is hiding out and using the alias of "Mr. Spock". I'm just curious as to whether Roddenberry ever read that space opera novel, or if it is just a coincidence.

 

[EEE]

On a side note, I'm interested as to where Roddenberry may have gotten the name for Mr. Spock. About the time that Roddenberry was first pitching Star Trek, the first novel of Jack Vance's "Demon Princes" space opera series came out. In that book, "The Star King", one of the major villians is hiding out and using the alias of "Mr. Spock". I'm just curious as to whether Roddenberry ever read that space opera novel, or if it is just a coincidence.

Interesting information and question!

 

[Christopher]

On a side note, I'm interested as to where Roddenberry may have gotten the name for Mr. Spock. About the time that Roddenberry was first pitching Star Trek, the first novel of Jack Vance's "Demon Princes" space opera series came out. In that book, "The Star King", one of the major villians is hiding out and using the alias of "Mr. Spock". I'm just curious as to whether Roddenberry ever read that space opera novel, or if it is just a coincidence.

Almost surely a coincidence. I don't think Roddenberry was especially well-read in science fiction. He'd never heard of Benjamin Spock, the famous baby doctor, either. He just picked a name that he thought had a strong sound.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

On a side note, I'm interested as to where Roddenberry may have gotten the name for Mr. Spock. About the time that Roddenberry was first pitching Star Trek, the first novel of Jack Vance's "Demon Princes" space opera series came out. In that book, "The Star King", one of the major villians is hiding out and using the alias of "Mr. Spock". I'm just curious as to whether Roddenberry ever read that space opera novel, or if it is just a coincidence.

Possibly. GR lifted stuff from everywhere, and generally feigned ignorance of the source when questioned.

 

[Maurice]

I posted this in a previous topic, but it bears repeating given all the assertions being hurled around here about Hunter.


According to Herb Solow:

HERB: We had an option on Jeff Hunter for a series, but not for another pilot... the lights came up, Jeff Hunter's wife [actress Sandy Bartlett] gave us our answer: "This is not the kind of show Jeff wants to do, and besides, it wouldn't be good for his career. Jeff Hunter is a movie star."

--Inside Star Trek (hardcover), p. 63​

I don't think that exactly says "sci-fi was beneath him". It's possible Hunter did the pilot because it was a paycheck and he never expected it to go to series.

 

[trevanian]

I Jeff Hunter is a movie star."[/B]

--Inside Star Trek (hardcover), p. 63​

I don't think that exactly says "sci-fi was beneath him".

Hard cut to Hunter starring in low-budget sci-fi feature DIMENSION FIVE, releasing in 1966.

It does seem odd he'd do that lil thing as a feature but not come back to shoot a couple extra days on CAGE to turn it into a feature, don't it?

 

[ClayinCA]

^^ Was turning "The Cage" into a feature ever discussed? I'm surprised I've never heard about that before...or perhaps I'm having a Gamma Hydra II moment.

 

[SonicRanger]

It does seem odd he'd do that lil thing as a feature but not come back to shoot a couple extra days on CAGE to turn it into a feature, don't it?

What?

First I've heard of this too.

 

[trevanian]

I had THOUGHT it was mentioned in the Solow/Justman book, but maybe i was mistaken. At some point, Roddenberry figured that by added an action prologue (like the RIGEL sequence), they could pad it out to feature length.

But the more I think about it, the more I'm wondering if it was Hunter who nixed the idea or whether Desilu didn't want to fork out for it. Somebody didn't want it to happen, I'm sure of that, and so it didn't (which I guess was good news by late 1966 when they were afraid they'd miss an airdate, prompting Black's drafting of MENAGERIE -- for which he did not get credit.)

 

[Therin of Andor]

He died from that fall because of a previous fall (not stroke) that he had on a movie set (after the Trek pilot). It probably left unfound internal injuries. Had he take Trek, he wouldn't have made the movie where he initially fell.

I seem to recall a fairly recent interview where it was speculated that Jeffrey Hunter had a long-running problem with alcoholism, and had a number of bad falls, but that the documented fall from the horse was the incident released for public consumption.