Why "Star Trek" is not right...
- Thread starter Captain Mike
- Start date
I can see some explanations on how events occurred so Spock was the pilot.
Scenario #1 - The supernova is threatening Romulus so it's Romulan scientists that discover the threat first, while Spock is on Romulus. Spock realizes he can use the Red Matter to fix the problem, but when he consults with the Federation some Federation scientists object to the procedure calling it "too dangerous". While the Federation science council debates the issue, Spock acts. The supernova accelerates unexpectedly and destroys Romulus before Spock gets there.
Scenario #2 - When Spock consults with the Federation some factions see this as an opportunity to rid the Federation of a mortal enemy once and for all. Perhaps even Section 31 had a hand in creating the supernova. These factions/Section 31 hinder any research on the solution and corrupts data that has been gathered. Spock has to hide his activities at the Vulcan Science Academy. But the time lost, and need for secrecy, proves fatal because the corrupted data makes it seem like the supernova was moving slower than it actually was. Spock arrives too late.
Scenario #1 - The supernova is threatening Romulus so it's Romulan scientists that discover the threat first, while Spock is on Romulus. Spock realizes he can use the Red Matter to fix the problem, but when he consults with the Federation some Federation scientists object to the procedure calling it "too dangerous". While the Federation science council debates the issue, Spock acts. The supernova accelerates unexpectedly and destroys Romulus before Spock gets there.
Scenario #2 - When Spock consults with the Federation some factions see this as an opportunity to rid the Federation of a mortal enemy once and for all. Perhaps even Section 31 had a hand in creating the supernova. These factions/Section 31 hinder any research on the solution and corrupts data that has been gathered. Spock has to hide his activities at the Vulcan Science Academy. But the time lost, and need for secrecy, proves fatal because the corrupted data makes it seem like the supernova was moving slower than it actually was. Spock arrives too late.
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No, Scotty would say he'd have it done in three hours, but actually get it done in one...
Countdown has a combination of the two, with the Vulcan Science Council refusing to give Spock the Red Matter.
The "Jellyfish" (Spock's Ship) was created by LaForge for extreme environments, commissioned by the Vulcan Science Council, and the ship was ready for the carrying of Red Matter.
Spock could not get there in time before Romulus went up.
The Romulan Council also considered Spock's warnings about the Hobus Star as alarmist.
I never read "countdown" and probably never willl. Bottom line is a fave among us "so-called" fans...is it canon?
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Amaris
Guest
That's a tough one. It's listed on both Memory Beta and Memory Alpha. Memory Alpha is the source for all Star Trek considered canon.
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_Countdown
Isn't the fave saying around here ...Not on film, NOT canon?!?
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Guest
In a way, except for the fact that it's not quite the true saying, and you seem to be engaging in a bit of reductionism with it's usage. Memory Alpha is for canon. Memory Beta is for non-canon. The Countdown comic is listed in both. Add to that the fact that not everything on screen (the correct saying) is considered canon by the powers that be, and your point becomes rather moot.
The comic book Countdown is no more canon than is Gene Roddenberry's novelization of TMP.
If it's on screen it's canon, if it's on Memory Alpha ... well big deal, what's on Memory Alpha is no more indicitive of what is canon than the postings here on the trekbbs. While a interesting and occasional useful resource, it really is nothing more but just another internet wiki fansite.
If it's on screen it's canon, if it's on Memory Alpha ... well big deal, what's on Memory Alpha is no more indicitive of what is canon than the postings here on the trekbbs. While a interesting and occasional useful resource, it really is nothing more but just another internet wiki fansite.
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Eh. I'm just saying that Memory Alpha's pretty strict on what they accept. That's why they made Memory Beta, for everything that's not generally accepted within the Star Trek universe. I just think it's interesting they include the Countdown Comics, which are considered an authorized source, if not canon. Personally, I don't give a flying butt kick if they're canon or not. It doesn't affect my enjoyment of the movie one way or the other.
Irrelevant; most (I think all) Trek novels are also listed on Memory Alpha, despite the fact that treklit is explicitly non-canon.
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Guest
As I said before, it doesn't really matter to me whether it is or it isn't, I just found it interesting. This whole "Star Trek isn't right because..." stuff never really made sense to me. It's like people completely miss the spirit of the show because they're too busy arguing over the number of rivets in the ship's hull. It was like when I attended the Chicago Trek convention this past year. We're in the darkened auditorium listening to the Enterprise Blues Band (Max Grodenchik, Vaughn Armstrong, Casey Biggs, Jeffrey Combs, etc) play, and I'm sitting next to several very lovely ladies, and we're enjoying the music. The number is a slow number, and so the girls want to slow dance. Well, I'm more than happy to accommodate two lovely ladies, and so we get up and start dancing over to the side, where we couldn't get in anyone's way. We danced through 4 songs, and had a lot of fun, and when it was done, Jeffrey Combs looks over and says "and thank you to our wonderful blues band dancers". It was cool!
What a wonderful time we had, but here's the specific part I'm getting to: The whole time we danced, the guy next to us (in the rows) kept crossing his arms, frowning at us and mumbling under his breath about decorum or somesuch, and he was resoundingly ignored and kept fuming the longer we danced. Here he was, in the presence of beautiful ladies, watching some great actors sing and play some excellent numbers, at a convention of what seemed to be his favorite show if his outfit was any indication, and yet he couldn't unclench his ass long enough to actually enjoy it.
That reminds me of all of this. Granted, we're nerds, we're geeks, it's in our blood, but for the love of fuck and two golden dollars, remember it's all about the spirit of the show, about how it affects you, about how it makes you feel good. Counting rivets on the hull, sitting through thousands of pages checking for canonical references can be fine, but if you become so obsessed that the wrong number of rivets, the wrong font on the ship's hull, the lighting bothers you, then maybe it's time to re-examine whether you love Star Trek, or love to hate Star Trek.
Just my two cents on what will be another stop in a continual and eternal back and forth (not of my making).
Exactly so.
Hey, arguing about Canon and Details to me is simply another way to enjoy the show.
Friendly disagreements, and hashing out details, is part of the fun.
What looks like partisan bickering on these boards is ignoring the fact that we're enjoying the conversation.
I get into the spirit of the show every time I watch it. Sometimes it's just fun to look a little closer at the details.
It's not, but it presents some good possibilities to consider.
It's all guesswork and what-if's anyway.
Since it came from the movie's writers, it certainly is far more "Canon" in a sense than most Trek literature in various forms, so for me personally, it carries weight.
If someone thinks of a better story that fits the movie, feel free to create !!!
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Amaris
Guest
Hey, arguing about Canon and Details to me is simply another way to enjoy the show.
Friendly disagreements, and hashing out details, is part of the fun.
What looks like partisan bickering on these boards is ignoring the fact that we're enjoying the conversation.
I get into the spirit of the show every time I watch it. Sometimes it's just fun to look a little closer at the details.
Nothing wrong with examining the details (I even say this in my previous post), it's just when it becomes an all consuming thing, a fear of anything different because it doesn't exactly line up with the thousands of hours of canon that has been pored over day and night, when another fan likes the new thing and is excoriated for not conforming to rigidly established canon (something the show itself wasn't able to do). When that happens, one has lost sight of the forest for the trees.
Hey, arguing about Canon and Details to me is simply another way to enjoy the show.
Friendly disagreements, and hashing out details, is part of the fun.
What looks like partisan bickering on these boards is ignoring the fact that we're enjoying the conversation.
I get into the spirit of the show every time I watch it. Sometimes it's just fun to look a little closer at the details.
Nothing wrong with examining the details (I even say this in my previous post), it's just when it becomes an all consuming thing, a fear of anything different because it doesn't exactly line up with the thousands of hours of canon that has been pored over day and night, when another fan likes the new thing and is excoriated for not conforming to rigidly established canon (something the show itself wasn't able to do). When that happens, one has lost sight of the forest for the trees.
I'm with you on that.
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