Why "Star Trek" is not right...

[BillJ]

Although, we actually don't know how long the Jellyfish was being refitted for. It could have been weeks (it looks like they stripped it down to the skeleton in the mind-meld), giving Spock ample time to head back in order to fly the mission himself.

So they couldn't have had a starship go to Vulcan then onto Romulus in the same time period? The NX-01 could get from Earth to Kronos on four days at the old scale Warp 5.

 

[kkozoriz1]

I like how the XI lovers always claim that the new movie does away with things like "the only ship in range" yet totally accept that Spock is the only one who can not only talk to the Romulan Senate but also deliver the red matter. HE'S the only one in range, forget about the ship. They totally ignore the plot holes, claim they don't even exist.

 

[ST-One]

The Jellyfish did fail to escape Nero, but Voyager repeatedly failed to escape the less-advanced Kazon, and yet was always one step ahead of the transwarp-equipped Borg. That doesn't quite fit, either.

After Spock absorbed the supernova in 2387, he had a black hole to deal with as well, which gives it some excusability. When he fell out the black hole, he was virtually inside the Narada's claws and probably immediately stuck in a tractor beam ("Capture that ship!")

But why allow himself to be captured? He knew what he had in his cargo hold could bring about 'universal armageddon' (single drop can collapse a star) yet he neither tried to run nor destroy the jellyfish.

It was another 'needed piece of stupidity' that was required for the plot to move forward.

Just like that 'needed piece of stupidity' in TMP then... : "The Enterprise is the only ship in interception range."

 

[ST-One]

I like how the XI lovers always claim that the new movie does away with things like "the only ship in range" yet totally accept that Spock is the only one who can not only talk to the Romulan Senate but also deliver the red matter. HE'S the only one in range, forget about the ship. They totally ignore the plot holes, claim they don't even exist.

Spock. People, even non-fans, know who Spock is. They often even know that the actor who plays him is Leonard Nimoy.
That's why he is the one.
And it makes some in-universe sense.

 

[BillJ]

The Jellyfish did fail to escape Nero, but Voyager repeatedly failed to escape the less-advanced Kazon, and yet was always one step ahead of the transwarp-equipped Borg. That doesn't quite fit, either.

After Spock absorbed the supernova in 2387, he had a black hole to deal with as well, which gives it some excusability. When he fell out the black hole, he was virtually inside the Narada's claws and probably immediately stuck in a tractor beam ("Capture that ship!")

But why allow himself to be captured? He knew what he had in his cargo hold could bring about 'universal armageddon' (single drop can collapse a star) yet he neither tried to run nor destroy the jellyfish.

It was another 'needed piece of stupidity' that was required for the plot to move forward.

Just like that 'needed piece of stupidity' in TMP then... : "The Enterprise is the only ship in interception range."

Yeah. But at least the Enterprise was in the right place at the right time. They didn't send Kirk and Company to go get the Enterprise and bring it back to Earth. If they truly felt they needed Spock to be the centerpiece... they needed to go about it in a cleaner, more believable manner. YMMV.

My biggest gripe has always been the script of this film. I thought the directing and acting were top notch for the most part.

 

[BillJ]

Spock. People, even non-fans, know who Spock is. They often even know that the actor who plays him is Leonard Nimoy.
That's why he is the one.
And it makes some in-universe sense.

It makes no sense 'in universe' or out. To send a geriatric Ambassador who hasn't served in a 'military' capacity in 80+ years just screams negligence. No wonder Romulus now resembles a charcoal briquette.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Although, we actually don't know how long the Jellyfish was being refitted for. It could have been weeks (it looks like they stripped it down to the skeleton in the mind-meld), giving Spock ample time to head back in order to fly the mission himself.

So they couldn't have had a starship go to Vulcan then onto Romulus in the same time period? The NX-01 could get from Earth to Kronos on four days at the old scale Warp 5.

But they needed to specially equip a ship to carry the red matter. They outfitted their fastest ship. Why does everyone insist that only a huge starship could deal with this?

...yet totally accept that Spock is the only one...

I never said that Spock was the only person who could have flown the mission - just that him doing it is plausible owing to his considerable experience dealing with various crisis in space, and his personal connection to the Romulans.

 

[ST-One]

But why allow himself to be captured? He knew what he had in his cargo hold could bring about 'universal armageddon' (single drop can collapse a star) yet he neither tried to run nor destroy the jellyfish.

It was another 'needed piece of stupidity' that was required for the plot to move forward.

Just like that 'needed piece of stupidity' in TMP then... : "The Enterprise is the only ship in interception range."

Yeah. But at least the Enterprise was in the right place at the right time. They didn't send Kirk and Company to go get the Enterprise and bring it back to Earth. If they truly felt they needed Spock to be the centerpiece... they needed to go about it in a cleaner, more believable manner.

How?
Like Spock being the one whose mind is touched by V'Ger and delaying the mission to intercept it by coming to the Enterprise rather than contacting the Starfleet?

 

[ST-One]

It makes no sense 'in universe' or out. To send a geriatric Ambassador who hasn't served in a 'military' capacity in 80+ years just screams negligence. No wonder Romulus now resembles a charcoal briquette.

I never said that Spock was the only person who could have flown the mission - just that him doing it is plausible owing to his considerable experience dealing with various crisis in space, and his personal connection to the Romulans.

This.

 

[BillJ]

Although, we actually don't know how long the Jellyfish was being refitted for. It could have been weeks (it looks like they stripped it down to the skeleton in the mind-meld), giving Spock ample time to head back in order to fly the mission himself.

So they couldn't have had a starship go to Vulcan then onto Romulus in the same time period? The NX-01 could get from Earth to Kronos on four days at the old scale Warp 5.

But they needed to specially equip a ship to carry the red matter. They outfitted their fastest ship. Why does everyone insist that only a huge starship could deal with this?

Not necessarily a huge starship... but something larger than a one man craft piloted by a 160 year old Vulcan.

With a starship you could have dedicated people handling each of the following:

*piloting the craft
*sensor analysis of phenomenon
*prepping and launching of the projectile
*post-analysis of phenomenon
*exiting of area

Plus with a starship, preparation of Red Matter containment could've been handled en route to Vulcan by Starfleet engineers. And you would've had a craft capable of defending itself from any opportunistic people who may have been viewing events as they unfolded. Because Red Matter would definitely be of interest to those who don't have the galaxy's best interests at heart.

 

[Captain Mike]

I like how the XI lovers always claim that the new movie does away with things like "the only ship in range" yet totally accept that Spock is the only one who can not only talk to the Romulan Senate but also deliver the red matter. HE'S the only one in range, forget about the ship. They totally ignore the plot holes, claim they don't even exist.

I totally agree 110%. I made that accusation before and then was "chastised" into....

always bring up "That we are giving our opinion on such a notion as a "fanboy wank" to defend our position"

What are you on about?

Hence I quote:

No. Primarily because Vulcans stopped building high-quality craft AFTER Enterpise

Where's that from? A fan assumption?

And just what are these?--------V

The Jellyfish did fail to escape Nero, but Voyager repeatedly failed to escape the less-advanced Kazon, and yet was always one step ahead of the transwarp-equipped Borg. That doesn't quite fit, either.

After Spock absorbed the supernova in 2387, he had a black hole to deal with as well, which gives it some excusability. When he fell out the black hole, he was virtually inside the Narada's claws and probably immediately stuck in a tractor beam ("Capture that ship!")

Although, we actually don't know how long the Jellyfish was being refitted for. It could have been weeks (it looks like they stripped it down to the skeleton in the mind-meld), giving Spock ample time to head back in order to fly the mission himself.

It makes no sense 'in universe' or out. To send a geriatric Ambassador who hasn't served in a 'military' capacity in 80+ years just screams negligence. No wonder Romulus now resembles a charcoal briquette.

I never said that Spock was the only person who could have flown the mission - just that him doing it is plausible owing to his considerable experience dealing with various crisis in space, and his personal connection to the Romulans.

This.

 

[Captain Mike]

Just like that 'needed piece of stupidity' in TMP then... : "The Enterprise is the only ship in interception range."

Yeah. But at least the Enterprise was in the right place at the right time. They didn't send Kirk and Company to go get the Enterprise and bring it back to Earth. If they truly felt they needed Spock to be the centerpiece... they needed to go about it in a cleaner, more believable manner.

How?
Like Spock being the one whose mind is touched by V'Ger and delaying the mission to intercept it by coming to the Enterprise rather than contacting the Starfleet?

Aaaahhh, but you are missing the MORE important dramatic plot of Spock had his own agenda. As I recall the Enterprise still hadn't balanced it's engines properly at that time and was still traveling at impulse power. A Vulcan WARP sled had no trouble in catching up with it so where was the delay?...

 

[Crazy Eddie]

I prefer to think of a logical explanation

I'm afraid we disagree on what's "logical". "Federation representative Spock didn't get there in time, Nero thinks it was on purpose and wants to see the Federation burn" makes perfect sense to me.

The only part that DOESN'T make sense is why saving Romulus would be Spock's sole responsibility. It would be like Condoleeza Rice renting a ferrari and driving to New Orleans to try and keep the levees from breaking the morning before Katrina. Is there any specific reason why the Army Corps of Engineers wouldn't be available for that same job?

It was a time-sensitive mission. Supernovae don't stop so famous current Starfleet captains can fly over.

Oh, but it stops so a geriatric Vulcan ambassador can fly back to Vulcan and have an entire ship outfitted for that specific mission.

Variations on a theme here. Almost any justification for why nobody else could have made the trip applies just as equally to Spock; if they didn't have time to send a starship, how the hell did they have time to outfit the Jellyfish?

No. Primarily because Vulcans stopped building high-quality craft AFTER Enterpise

Where's that from? A fan assumption?

It has been strongly implied by the apparent non-existence of Vulcan-designed starships in the fleet and the absence of any major Starfleet shipbuilding facilities on or near Vulcan.

I doubt it's even the fastest ship on Vulcan

That's not what the movie said.

Indeed, it is never said that Jellyfish is the fastest ship in the Federation or even on Vulcan. Just that it is the fastest ship that "we" had, "we" meaning the Vulcan Science Academy and whoever else was involved with this mission.

It does, however, clearly exclude Starfleet, since neither Spock nor the VSA are affiliated with it and the film implies that they are in some ways rival organizations.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

I like how the XI lovers always claim that the new movie does away with things like "the only ship in range" yet totally accept that Spock is the only one who can not only talk to the Romulan Senate but also deliver the red matter. HE'S the only one in range, forget about the ship. They totally ignore the plot holes, claim they don't even exist.

I must assume by "XI lovers" you mean specifically "King Daniel," since nobody else here has made any attempt to claim this.

Repeating: I do believe the only reason Spock had to fly the mission is because he's the only person in the Federation OR Romulus who knows how to compute slingshot trajectories and used a time-travel maneuver to absorb the star BEFORE it exploded. In which case, he wasn't the only one in range, he's just the only one the Romulans knew who could have prevented the disaster before it happened.

 

[ST-One]

Yeah. But at least the Enterprise was in the right place at the right time. They didn't send Kirk and Company to go get the Enterprise and bring it back to Earth. If they truly felt they needed Spock to be the centerpiece... they needed to go about it in a cleaner, more believable manner.

How?
Like Spock being the one whose mind is touched by V'Ger and delaying the mission to intercept it by coming to the Enterprise rather than contacting the Starfleet?

Aaaahhh, but you are missing the MORE important dramatic plot of Spock had his own agenda. As I recall the Enterprise still hadn't balanced it's engines properly at that time and was still traveling at impulse power. A Vulcan WARP sled had no trouble in catching up with it so where was the delay?...

And isn't it interesting that Spock and not Scotty was the one who repaired the engine-imbalance?

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Scotty finds arithmetic somewhat difficult on account of his missing finger.

 

[ST-One]

Scotty finds arithmetic somewhat difficult on account of his missing finger.

NOT TEH CANNON!!!!1!!!1!!!111!!!!

 

[kkozoriz1]

How?
Like Spock being the one whose mind is touched by V'Ger and delaying the mission to intercept it by coming to the Enterprise rather than contacting the Starfleet?

Aaaahhh, but you are missing the MORE important dramatic plot of Spock had his own agenda. As I recall the Enterprise still hadn't balanced it's engines properly at that time and was still traveling at impulse power. A Vulcan WARP sled had no trouble in catching up with it so where was the delay?...

And isn't it interesting that Spock and not Scotty was the one who repaired the engine-imbalance?

That's funny, the scene show SPock AND scotty in the engine room while Kirk's log mentions Spock's assistance. Spock Help fix the engine imbalance. He didn't show up and do it all by himself.

Yup, nobody else in that shot except Spock.

 

[Satyrquaze]

Ladies and Gentlemen...

Clearly Spock and the Jellyfish was the... "Only Ship In The Quadrant."

 

[kkozoriz1]

That explains so much.