Why should i pay $14 to enter the US?
- Thread starter nacelle
- Start date
As far as I can tell, tipping only benefits those who receive the tips (if they get good tips) and their employers (who can cheap out on labor costs.) If you're "expected" to shell out an extra 20% to your server, I don't see what difference it makes if it's added to your bill instead.
The notion that food and drinks would cost "2-3X as much" is also pure nonsense. The difference between the full minimum wage and the tipped minimum wage is $5.12 an hour. Assuming a decent server can handle 5 tables an hour (and I'm sure good ones can swing more than that), you're talking about a little over a buck more per table just to bring the server up to minimum wage.
And frankly, it's not realistic to expect to consistently make close to $40 an hour from tips as a server. If you can do that regularly, then you are very, very lucky. A reasonable pay rate for a server, given the difficulty and skills required by the job, would be in the $8-11 range. You're still talking about just a few more bucks added to each table's bill--certainly not 20%, and absolutely not "2-3X as much" as under a tipping regime.
Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to tip well when I get good service, and the only time I don't tip is when I get absolutely awful service, but if you put your livelihood at the direct mercy of your customers, don't bitch when I judge your service to be less valuable than you think it is.
It seems to me like some servers want to have it both ways--they want the good tips but not the crappy ones. Sorry, but you get paid "whatever the market will bear," and in tough times, the market doesn't bear as much. If you want a more stable income, go into a line of work that doesn't rely so much on the kindness of strangers, or fight the eliminate the tipping custom.
The notion that food and drinks would cost "2-3X as much" is also pure nonsense. The difference between the full minimum wage and the tipped minimum wage is $5.12 an hour. Assuming a decent server can handle 5 tables an hour (and I'm sure good ones can swing more than that), you're talking about a little over a buck more per table just to bring the server up to minimum wage.
And frankly, it's not realistic to expect to consistently make close to $40 an hour from tips as a server. If you can do that regularly, then you are very, very lucky. A reasonable pay rate for a server, given the difficulty and skills required by the job, would be in the $8-11 range. You're still talking about just a few more bucks added to each table's bill--certainly not 20%, and absolutely not "2-3X as much" as under a tipping regime.
Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to tip well when I get good service, and the only time I don't tip is when I get absolutely awful service, but if you put your livelihood at the direct mercy of your customers, don't bitch when I judge your service to be less valuable than you think it is.
It seems to me like some servers want to have it both ways--they want the good tips but not the crappy ones. Sorry, but you get paid "whatever the market will bear," and in tough times, the market doesn't bear as much. If you want a more stable income, go into a line of work that doesn't rely so much on the kindness of strangers, or fight the eliminate the tipping custom.
Anything worth visiting is worth paying a bit for 
... Consider the $14 a lodger's tax (which, if you stay in a hotel, you will be paying for no matter where you go)...
As far as tipping goes, I WISH I could make $34.95 (with tips factored in) an hour for what I do.. I sure as hell work longer hours than mose servers.. I'm not going to say I work harder most of the time, because I'm not schlepping around big trays of food and drink (You do NOT want me to do that, believe me)...
So if there's to be "equal wages", it should be that us normal workers get bumped up to what servers make.
... Consider the $14 a lodger's tax (which, if you stay in a hotel, you will be paying for no matter where you go)...
As far as tipping goes, I WISH I could make $34.95 (with tips factored in) an hour for what I do.. I sure as hell work longer hours than mose servers.. I'm not going to say I work harder most of the time, because I'm not schlepping around big trays of food and drink (You do NOT want me to do that, believe me)...
So if there's to be "equal wages", it should be that us normal workers get bumped up to what servers make.
I think about it that way, and I wish we could eliminate the custom.
I only bitch about crappy tips when I don't understand them. There have been plenty of times when I am giving a group of people fantastic service and having a really good time with them, and then I look and see a bad tip. It just makes me wonder, "What went wrong?"
I have given plenty of people mediocre service (never bad, just mediocre) and completely expect to get a mediocre tip from them. It's not a shock.
We bitch about the crappy tips because we need something to bitch about. Everybody finds something to bitch about at work. In truth, we fully expect to get shitty tips, and we get over it quickly when we do.
It's just fun to make these arguments in the hopes that it will make people see the light and start tipping their servers more.
We are no longer friends.
If you had a contractor build an extension to your house, do you only pay the price of the materials and not the labor? Is everything else optional? The only difference is there's no up front fee. You, as the customer, are given discretion based on the quality of service. If it was poor, you can leave less. If it was exceptional, you can pay extra for that exceptional quality. But it's not designed to be optional.
You're mostly right, but you also have to factor in downtime where there's nobody in the restaurant, but it has to be staffed for when people arrive. During this time, even paying Server minimum wage is painful to employers. So you're right it might not factor out to the exact price, but it strikes me as somewhere between our two numbers.
Speaking for myself sometimes I just tip whatever change is in my pocket because I'm caught short. In many restaurants here you get the option to add the gratuity to the bill when you pay with a card, but some don't. I've gotten out of the habit of carrying cash and sometimes I can't remember if the restaurant I'm at does that or not or the server hurriedly bypasses that part of the payment dialogue on the handset before handing it back to me.
If there's a cash point nearby then I'll take out a tenner and go back to leave a tip, but otherwise it just ends up being a paltry amount. I can only try to do better next time!
Interestingly people seem not to tip delivery drivers as a rule here to the point where I've had a guy hurry off before I had a chance to give him a pound. Those that get it seem surprised, but appreciative.
I tried to tip in Italy and had the money returned to me on several occasions. It was impossible for me to get them to keep it until I learned the word for tip. Otherwise, I couldn't explain why I didn't want my change back and they were always confused why I paid a few Euros extra even when I had exact change.
Something's gone a little wrong when a bartender or waitress is gettin huffy about only making $25-35 an hour. Plenty of professions (requiring lots of expensive schooling) don't get that, and for a lot more work.
To be blunt, you shouldn't earn ~ $30/hour for writing down what I want, and carrying it from the kitchen for me. And then just enough attention to get one refill of my soda. Holding a glass under the beer tap really doesn't seem worth another dollar on top of my $4 beer...
I mean, I pretty much always leave 20% unless they've done something to merit less, but it's an annoying custom, and would rather have it just factored into the price upfront.
To be blunt, you shouldn't earn ~ $30/hour for writing down what I want, and carrying it from the kitchen for me. And then just enough attention to get one refill of my soda. Holding a glass under the beer tap really doesn't seem worth another dollar on top of my $4 beer...
I mean, I pretty much always leave 20% unless they've done something to merit less, but it's an annoying custom, and would rather have it just factored into the price upfront.
Well, it all averages out. Believe me, there are plenty of times when I make about $6/hour.
A couple months ago I was bartending on a Monday night and made $500. It was fucking awesome.
The next 4 Mondays nights in a row I averaged about $30.
There is potential for lots of money as a server, but there is also an annoying karma thing that prevents us from REALLY doing that well.
In Japan people apparently get offended if you try to push a tip on them. They regard it as just doing their job. Works for me!
You could save a lot of money by not coming...because if 14 dollars will ruin the trip, then you shouldn't be coming anyway.
The thing for me, though, is that I actually enjoy tipping. If somebody gives me good service, I have no problem leaving them a 30-40% tip. Customer service -- GOOD customer service -- isn't easy. But if I go out to dinner and my server gives me good service and ensures that I am having a really good time, I love being able to reward them for it. Waiting tables isn't (or shouldn't be) about just writing down orders and bringing people things. It is also about ensuring that your guests have a fantastic time while they are in your establishment. A lot of servers don't understand that, and I can understand why you might not want to tip them for the mediocre service they provide. I just live in an optimistic world where people take their jobs seriously and strive to do the best they can.
Getting back to the restaurants, no, I expect the people offering me the meal (read: the restaurant owners) to take care that the costs for every aspect of the meal (the material cost, decent wages (both for the kitchen staff and service), power etc.) is incorporated in the price they offer the meal for. When I tip it is meant as a special bonus for a job well done, not some kind of hidden mandated social security payment.
But it's not. If you think about it as paying for labor, it makes more sense.
Agreed on all counts. I always give a good tip for good service. I enjoy it.
A couple of other points: it may be different when you're a tourist going there once, versus being a regular customer. People get to know you, know what you like, etc. It's more than just someone bringing you food.
Another thing is that the waiters and waitresses get screwed sometimes because they bear the brunt of any unhappiness on the customer's part. If the meal is slow or not to the customer's liking, some people will take it out on the server via the tip. That's not really fair. It's not their fault.
I also don't think a waiter's job is easy. Aside from the physical demands, a good waiter or waitress does not employ one strategy in taking care of their customers, they employ several. Good wait staff read the situation, the personality of the table, etc. Are they gregarious and talkative? Are they asking a lot of questions? Do they want to be left alone or pampered? There is some skill involved in being a good server. They help to create the atmosphere, which is why many people go out to eat in the first place (otherwise you could just cook at home).
Again...it is NOT hidden. This is a very overt part of the American economy.
