Why should i pay $14 to enter the US?

[Robert Maxwell]

But it's not. If you think about it as paying for labor, it makes more sense.

But that doesn't make a lot of sense, either. If you're paying for labor, well, it doesn't require much more labor to deliver a $100-a-plate meal to someone vs. a $10-a-plate meal, yet you're expected to pay an amount proportionate to the cost of the bill.

If it's really about paying for labor, then I should figure up how much waiting tables is reasonably worth on a per-hour basis, ballpark how much time the server spent serving me (counting times they had to go to the back and get something for me, of course), and offer up that amount as the tip. Let's say I think waiting on me is worth $12 an hour (which is pretty generous, I think) and you spent 15 minutes in total waiting on me while I was there. You should be tipped $3 regardless of how much the meal was, no?

This is the disconnect I don't get. Why should the price of the meal have any relationship with how much I tip, if tipping is about the quality and quantity of the table service and not the food?

 

[Alidar Jarok]

I had this conversation with someone I'm dating.

Why should I pay 20% on already overpriced food for someone who just gives me my food? I have legs, I can go get the food myself and save the money.

You're supposed to be paying for the experience of having someone take care of you. I mean, having to yell at cooks who haven't made your food or forgot to add something or didn't put in the substitute that was requested isn't fun. Also, the kitchen is oppressively hot. It's also nice to not have to get up after time you need a soda refill. But if you want to do more work, you can always go to a fast food place or make your own food. Nothing wrong with that.

But it's not. If you think about it as paying for labor, it makes more sense.

But that doesn't make a lot of sense, either. If you're paying for labor, well, it doesn't require much more labor to deliver a $100-a-plate meal to someone vs. a $10-a-plate meal, yet you're expected to pay an amount proportionate to the cost of the bill.

I think it's less than ideal. I know the logic is a large part related to the idea that when bills are higher, it involves more people or more food, so that's more work for the waiter. It's certainly not one-to-one, but maybe it averages out to a rough proportionality. Certainly, it's not common for a restaurant to offer both $10 and $100 plates.

 

[RoJoHen]

This is the disconnect I don't get. Why should the price of the meal have any relationship with how much I tip, if tipping is about the quality and quantity of the table service and not the food?

Yeah, as a server, even I don't disagree with this. I think it would probably be more fair all around to tip based on the number of items you order or the length of time spent at the table instead of having to tip more just because you decided to order an expensive steak instead of chicken fingers.

However, as long as the custom is to tip on a percent of the bill, I am going to do my best to benefit from it.

But really, just because you only see your server for 10-15 minutes throughout your whole meal doesn't mean they aren't paying attention to you or your needs. Good servers should be able to wait on you without being noticed.

 

[bigdaddy]

I had this conversation with someone I'm dating.

Why should I pay 20% on already overpriced food for someone who just gives me my food? I have legs, I can go get the food myself and save the money.

You're supposed to be paying for the experience of having someone take care of you. I mean, having to yell at cooks who haven't made your food or forgot to add something or didn't put in the substitute that was requested isn't fun. Also, the kitchen is oppressively hot. It's also nice to not have to get up after time you need a soda refill. But if you want to do more work, you can always go to a fast food place or make your own food. Nothing wrong with that.

If I want an "experience" I will buy a hooker, I want food. And most servers I have had wouldn't be able to yell at a cook for something. They go "you want more water" if they get bored and then just give you the food. I now mainly go to restaurants that you order the food at the front, pay, then they bring it out and leave you alone.

 

[lurok]

How do cook's wages match to waiting staff? Figured the reason for tip-pooling was they get to share as well? After all, they actually make the food we eat. Someone mentioned earlier food would be 2-3x more expensive if system changed? Don't see problem with that. Rather have Japanese system, where food more expensive but quality and service exceptional. As for 'minimum wage', we have that in UK alongside gratuities/tips but you'll be hard-pressed to find many 'natives' doing that kind of work here. Which is one of many things I do admire Americans for...

 

[Nick086]

I wasn't a big fan of him letting HIV+ tourist into the country from all around the world.

 

[RoJoHen]

How do cook's wages match to waiting staff? Figured the reason for tip-pooling was they get to share as well? After all, they actually make the food we eat. Someone mentioned earlier food would be 2-3x more expensive if system changed? Don't see problem with that. Rather have Japanese system, where food more expensive but quality and service exceptional. As for 'minimum wage', we have that in UK alongside gratuities/tips but you'll be hard-pressed to find many 'natives' doing that kind of work here. Which is one of many things I do admire Americans for...

It depends on the restaurant. At mine, the cooks make anywhere from $10-15/hour. The bartenders and servers get to keep their individual tips, but they put a certainly percentage of their sales (2% for us) into a pool, which is divided between hosts and bussers.

So if I bartended one night and sold $1000 worth of product, in theory I would earn $200 in tips. However, I would then put $20 (2% of $1000) into the tipshare pool, which would be split between the host and bussers. Assume there is one of each, they would earn $10 a piece. Mutliply that by the number of bartenders and servers working, and they themselves usually make between $50-100 per shift.

Now, it's been a long fucking time since I sold $1000 in a shift. I normally sell about $400.

 

[RoJoHen]

I had this conversation with someone I'm dating.

Why should I pay 20% on already overpriced food for someone who just gives me my food? I have legs, I can go get the food myself and save the money.

You're supposed to be paying for the experience of having someone take care of you. I mean, having to yell at cooks who haven't made your food or forgot to add something or didn't put in the substitute that was requested isn't fun. Also, the kitchen is oppressively hot. It's also nice to not have to get up after time you need a soda refill. But if you want to do more work, you can always go to a fast food place or make your own food. Nothing wrong with that.

If I want an "experience" I will buy a hooker, I want food. And most servers I have had wouldn't be able to yell at a cook for something. They go "you want more water" if they get bored and then just give you the food. I now mainly go to restaurants that you order the food at the front, pay, then they bring it out and leave you alone.

Well, yes, there are a lot of really bad servers out there. I work with many of them. It actually boggles my mind that they don't try harder. When your guest has a good experience at your restaurant, they are more likely to come back and recommend the place to other people. When you give shitty service, chances are you just lost a return customer, which means you just lost a future tip.

 

[bigdaddy]

You're supposed to be paying for the experience of having someone take care of you. I mean, having to yell at cooks who haven't made your food or forgot to add something or didn't put in the substitute that was requested isn't fun. Also, the kitchen is oppressively hot. It's also nice to not have to get up after time you need a soda refill. But if you want to do more work, you can always go to a fast food place or make your own food. Nothing wrong with that.

If I want an "experience" I will buy a hooker, I want food. And most servers I have had wouldn't be able to yell at a cook for something. They go "you want more water" if they get bored and then just give you the food. I now mainly go to restaurants that you order the food at the front, pay, then they bring it out and leave you alone.

Well, yes, there are a lot of really bad servers out there. I work with many of them. It actually boggles my mind that they don't try harder. When your guest has a good experience at your restaurant, they are more likely to come back and recommend the place to other people. When you give shitty service, chances are you just lost a return customer, which means you just lost a future tip.

Exactly. Most people only give a restaurant one chance. If it goes poorly they won't go back and will tell everyone else. No one shows up and there is no need for servers and everyone is fired.

My mom yells at me because I tip by how much I like the person. If I don't I'll tip 5%, if I do it could be 25%. My mom is like "you are supposed to tip 20% no matter what and if the server was bad talk to the manager". Why would I give my mom to someone who shouldn't have been hired by the dumb manager? The manager hired the person, so clearly they were wrong, so why should I pay for someone who doesn't deserve to work?

I worked in retail, I spent my time helping the shoppers and got yelled at for going to slow (because I was helping people instead of stocking). Did the people tip me for my job? No, it was my job to help them. It's the server's job to give me food and the restaurant should be paying them a fair rate.

 

[RoJoHen]

I would say that you should always start assuming you will tip 20% and then adjust accordingly based on the service you receive. Again, I know that there are a lot of crappy servers out there that probably don't deserve a full 20% tip, but please tip them something. Try to remember that they are probably being forced to tip out the hosts or the bussers based on their sales, so if you tip them nothing, it will actually cost them money to wait on you.

 

[Holdfast]

Her Majesty's Revenue & Customs, aka HMRC, aka "those thieving gits".

Yes, but the paperwork isn't as complicated here and if you leave the country you don't have to file. Better still is that you can do PAYE and NEVER FILE!

Not in my situation, but yes, theoretically I suppose it can be done. But remember you don't get the benefit of any deductions you may be entitled to if you don't file a return (at least, you won't get the ones that aren't already accounted for by PAYE).

I'd love to do my non-taxes online (thanks to the foreign income exclusion my 1040 is a bunch of zeros - what a waste of time)...

It's ridiculous isn't it! Due to all the tax treaties in effect, I also pay zero to the IRS, and yet I still apparently have to file something every year. I just give the info to my US accountant who does it online, but even they never bill me (I think they just do it as a favour to the UK accountants who referred me to them as that firm sends them a lot of business. Either that or they add a nominal sum to the UK accountancy bill and I've never noticed).

And that separate Dept of the Treasury 90-22.1 form is an annual minor pain in the ass too.

 

[Jonas Grumby]

Aw man, this thread started out as high comedy, and then people had to bring up tipping and make it all serious...

Can't we have both? I mean, I'm still chuckling about the OP's "right to travel freely throughout the world."

 

[Scout101]

Or willingness to spend a couple grand on flights, hotels, and costumes, but having to spend $14 to enter the country means he has to go without food, as the budget just canna' take it...

 

[DonIago]

Pay me $14 and we can have both.

 

[ManOnTheWave]

$14 was what I spent on lunch the last time I was in an airport.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

$14 will get you a beer and almost a hotdog at a Yankee game.

 

[ManOnTheWave]

Well, I got a small soda, so got to eat a whole hot dog.

 

[Sean Aaron]

But remember you don't get the benefit of any deductions you may be entitled to if you don't file a return (at least, you won't get the ones that aren't already accounted for by PAYE).

The convenience is worth it. I never understood the point of withholding in the US when they NEVER get it right. I either was owed money or owed money. Shit, might as well withhold nothing if the bastards can't count! I mean here it's a piece of piss - why the fuck does the USA need that bullshit multi-page tax table?

 

[Myasishchev]

I'd like to reiterate that there's an easy solution for people who aren't comfortable with paying for the service they get: not going out to eat at sit-down restaurants.

If you don't like tipping, there are a vast array of options in our great country for you to eat that do not involve tipping. Oh, and they're usually cheaper per calorie, too. Ramen noodles, for example, are quite cheap, and tap water is practically free. You could even start your own farm--which is a roundabout away of saying that if I had the power, I'd have wished inexplicable bad tippers into the cornfield.

The convenience is worth it. I never understood the point of withholding in the US when they NEVER get it right. I either was owed money or owed money. Shit, might as well withhold nothing if the bastards can't count! I mean here it's a piece of piss - why the fuck does the USA need that bullshit multi-page tax table?

Firstly: enforcing the income tax on an individual level would be ridiculously difficult, and it is far easier to just enforce it against employers when possible and do an accounting later. Secondly, albeit more speculatively: even with the dubious assumption of compliance, the present value of the tax is worth more than it would be as a yearly lump sum.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

I have a lot of waitresses in my family. They get between 15 and 22 dollars an hour for waitressing. Tips are rare here, someone might leave their change in the tip jar.