Why saucers?

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by NewHeavensNewEarth, Jul 14, 2019.

  1. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    I don't think it was anything as on-the-nose as that. Pato Guzman and Matt Jefferies went through dozens of design sketches with Roddenberry supervising, and the version they settled on was just the one that looked best to them. Aesthetically alone, regardless of any social trends at the time, the saucer design looks sleeker and more dynamic than a sphere. It also probably worked better as a model in terms of lighting and camera angles, because it looks different from different angles in a way that a sphere doesn't.
     
  2. Prax

    Prax Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Would Star Trek have carried on if it had been a sphere?
     
  3. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    As long as it had colorful uniforms and transporters and Spock, it would be distinct enough... Saucers, phasers, Kirks and Klingons are sort of optional.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  4. Henoch

    Henoch Commodore Premium Member

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    I'd give it three seasons, tops. :whistle:
     
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  5. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Well, yeah, but the major innovation is that the TOS Enterprise was a fusion of both of these fundamental elements, rocketship and saucer.

    The Martian war machines from Pal's 1953 film were not ground-effect vehicles. A ground-effect vehicle is a vehicle that generates lift via the aerodynamic ground effect. The Martian war machines were explicitly described as lifting themselves by other means, namely their three electromagnetic legs.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground-effect_vehicle
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_effect_(aerodynamics)
     
  6. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Premium Member

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    Yep. See, for example, THE TWILIGHT ZONES "The Invaders" in which the "alien" saucer turns out to be a ship from Earth.
     
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  7. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    ^Spoilers, man!
     
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  8. Henoch

    Henoch Commodore Premium Member

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    Wasn't that also a Batman story?
    [​IMG]
    The Joker's Flying Saucer, S3E24, 1968.
     
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  9. tavor

    tavor Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    just as well they didnt go with a saucer only
    think about it
    nx-01 enterprise ,1701,a to e deepspace 9 uss defiant ,uss voyager plus all other ships ships with the exact same saucer
    (collecting would be easy just change decals)
     
  10. JonnyQuest037

    JonnyQuest037 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Wow, an episode of The Twilight Zone had a twist ending? I did not see that coming!
     
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  11. publiusr

    publiusr Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Saucers make sense as an aeroshell
    http://www.astronautix.com/graphics/o/otvtrtl2.jpg

    Look at figure 12 on page 6 here:
    https://www.aiaa.org/docs/default-s...ttlevariationsfinalaiaa.pdf?sfvrsn=b8875e90_0

    Not far from the Enterprise--that launch vehicle.

    http://up-ship.com/blog/?p=41644

    Another reason for saucers:

    The specifications for the proposed DAMS called for an air-launched defensive missile, capable of engaging incoming missiles at relative speeds of up to Mach 7, surviving a rate of acceleration between 60 g to 250 g, and being able to undertake rapid terminal-phase guidance changes in any direction.

    Following initial studies and wind-tunnel testing at the Air Proving Ground Center and Arnold Engineering Development Center, a radically unconventional design emerged that featured a lenticular, wedge-shaped airframe. The lenticular design was considered to have the best handling characteristics at extremely high angles of attack, and would theoretically possess ideal mass distribution, giving the missile outstanding terminal agility. In addition, the lenticular design allowed for omnidirectional launching from the carrying aircraft.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pye_Wacket
    http://www.astronautix.com/l/lenticularvehicles.html

    Here is a wind tunnel sim


    http://www.physics.uq.edu.au/lp/lasdiag/enterp.php
    An actual ERTL metal mini seemed to avoid "shock/shock interactions--can't find the link...
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2019
  12. Sgt_G

    Sgt_G Commodore Commodore

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    Hey! Use SPOILER tags, for crying out loud!!!!
     
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  13. BK613

    BK613 Commodore Commodore

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  14. KamenRiderBlade

    KamenRiderBlade Captain Captain

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    I have to agree, this makes a lot more sense then most other reasons. With the standard Saucer + StarDrive + Nacelle configuration, you really limit the largest Silhoutte to the Ventral / Dorsal views with the second largest usually being the Port / StarBoard profiles.
    The Fore / Aft is the worst profile for targeting.

    With a sphere, it's just bad regardless of direction you look at it, it's just a big target all around.

    And with a Saucer, you still get plenty of volume and relatively short pathing arrangements for humanoids to walk around in to get where they need to go efficiently, and in a emergency scenario.
     
  15. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    I took a different view in my first Rise of the Federation novel, in explaining why Federation Starfleet ships ended up looking so much like Earth Starfleet ships instead of having elements of the Vulcan or Andorian designs seen in Enterprise. I explained that it was because those nations' long, narrow ships were designed with combat in mind, with minimal forward profiles, while Earth Starfleet's ships were more exploration/multifunction craft, where the efficiency and flexibility of the internal configuration was more important than the target size presented to an enemy, favoring sphere or saucer designs over long, narrow cylinders/boxes. So the choice to go with the Earth-style ship design symbolized Starfleet's choice to embrace an exploratory and diplomatic role over a strictly combat-oriented one.

    Although the Vulcan and Andorian influence was still present in less visible ways, e.g. the deflectors and tractor beams. And the Andorian Kumari bridge seen in "Proving Ground" introduced features later adopted by Starfleet bridges, e.g. outward-facing wall stations and paired helm/navigator stations.
     
  16. publiusr

    publiusr Vice Admiral Admiral

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    That makes sense as well. Roomy...lots of space for labs.

    That be the one.

    The image shows that the designers certainly knew their stuff - at this speed, the bow shocks pass comfortably outside the other sections of the vehicle

    [​IMG]
     
  17. Kaiser

    Kaiser Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Ive always thought it was to help people get used to the idea of Saucer shaped space craft if its ever officially stated Alien crafts are real and are saucer shaped.
     
  18. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Say what?
     
  19. Kaiser

    Kaiser Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I dunno how to respond without the thread turning into a big argument bout Aliens and What the Government and NASA really know =/
     
  20. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Oh, OK.... :rolleyes:
     
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