Why Rick Berman prevented Trek from being cool for so many years..

[srombomb]

"In the ‘Next Generation' movies, I did not appear and Kirk was killed," Nimoy said. "It was as though someone was trying to create a dividing line between the original, classic series and the ‘New Generation' crew. I was out and Bill was dead. They never contacted me, never suggested anything, we never had discussion or conversation. I assumed that was it, it's over. I didn't feel great about it but I was OK with it. I've had my run and I had a lot of other interesting things I wanted to do. I didn't look back."

Sounds to me like Nimoy felt like they simply were not welcome in the country club we call Star Trek anymore. It shows you how ignorant Rick Berman was for not realizing the potential for making the Next Generation movies that much cooler by injecting some of the original series characters in it to liven things up. Make no mistake people, the humor in the Next Generation became way too politically correct. Everything the original series was not. I have a close friend who loved watching the original series, but hated the Next Generation movies because they felt too clean and not raw enough like the older films. No kidding. And Berman went on Trekking thinking he was doing Star Trek a favor.

Star Trek would have lived on without Voyager, or Deep Space Nine, or Enterprise, or Nemesis, or Insurrection, etc etc. The fanbase had already been established and cemented with the old show, and the Next Generation tv show (not the movies).

Arrogance screwed fans of the original series out of seeing their favorite characters during the 1990s.

Oh well. Better late than never!

 

[miraclefan]

And it's because of berman that ENT was killed before it had a chance to tell some great stories.

 

[MichaelStivic]

Berman had a disdain for TOS and I don't think he liked that his shows were the children of TOS. I am glad that Nimoy and TOS are what has brought Star Trek back with an 80 million dollar opening weekend!

 

[Plecostomus]

I want ALL my Trek remastered to this new high standard of awesomtivity.

 

[donners22]

Without TNG, DS9, Voyager, Enterprise and First Contact we would have missed many, many wonderful moments associated with the Star Trek name. I'm glad things progressed as they did.

Sounds to me like Nimoy felt like they simply were not welcome in the country club we call Star Trek anymore. It shows you how ignorant Rick Berman was for not realizing the potential for making the Next Generation movies that much cooler by injecting some of the original series characters in it to liven things up.

Or to cling to nostalga and introduce contrivances to bring back characters who had nothing to do with a show that was a tremendous commercial success for seven years.

I'm very glad they didn't use the TOS characters in the TNG films. It would have been terrible.

 

[Holodoc]

Hang on a second; in Generations, the roles of Scotty and Chekov were initially written for Spock and McCoy, respectively. That's why the practical engineer is all of a sudden a theoretical scientist, and the weapons officer is taking over sickbay.

From the trivia section on imdb.com's Star Trek: Generations page:
"Leonard Nimoy was originally asked to act in and direct this film, but he declined after reading the script and being told there was not time to fix the parts with which he had problems. According to Nimoy, there was a character named Spock in the script, but the lines were so bland they could have been spoken by anyone (those lines were given to James Doohan as Scotty; Nimoy later pointed to this as proof he was right)."

 

[Candlelight]

I'm glad Nimoy wasn't included in the TNG films, and didn't really like the fact that Kirk, Scotty and Chekov appeared in Generations, although given the story they had too.

They were called TNG movies for a reason. We had spin offs cos it was a profitable show.

 

[erebus]

I guess the destination isn't always reached by a direct route, but getting there sure can make the journey worthwhile.

 

[DiSiLLUSiON]

Oh god, here we go again with the "Rick Berman did this, Rick Berman did that" crap.

Rick Berman hasn't done anything but do his job, and probably well (or Paramount would've kicked him out on the spot). I personally thank him for his attention to, and love for, everything Star Trek. Thank you Berman.

And Braga as well, before you bring him up as an alternative to crap about.

 

[Mordock]

Yeah, it's a shame how Rick Berman ruined the new film-oh, wait, he didn't. He had nothing to do with it. I think you want the "Star Trek Movies" forum, two doors down and to the right...

 

[TheGodBen]

They never contacted me, never suggested anything, we never had discussion or conversation.

Bull. Shit.

Not only were you offered a role as Spock at the beginning of Generations, Mr Nemoy, you were offered the opportunity to direct the film and turned it down. Now why are you making crap up?

 

[srombomb]

He knows he was offered to be in it, but he declined because his role was reduced to a very unsubstantial one people. It's why he was so taken aback by Abrams and co. because he realized the Spock character finally had a purpose again. He also declined directing Generations because of the utter mess the script was. Get your facts straight Trekkies.

 

[number6]

I don't think Berman is totally to blame for the TOS crew being "shut out" of Star Trek. Don't forget, the original series and the success of the films made it possible to do another Star Trek series.

GR chose to cast a new "generation" for the new series. He didn't want Klingons or Vulcans in it at all.

He was talked into Worf and Romulans and even the Borg, by the creative production staff and writers.

With TNG being the success that it was, it was only logical that Paramount would place all its Trek-related attention to the new hit. The series that followed from that creative team would revere the original series with loads of nods to the show. Kelley was on the maiden voyage, Doohan did an episode and many of the guest stars from the original show appeared in all incarnations of Star Trek.

Nimoy appeared on TNG with a storyline meant to promote the last TOS film.

Paramount, if anyone, can be the big culprit, in terms of TOS only being welcome when it could make them money. Let's face it.. The rest of the cast would have easily given their right nut to be on any of those shows and in VOY's Flashback they did...Yes.. I know it sucked too.

DS9 did it best because they had the benefit of running concurrently with other shows. Since the focus was on promoting the show on the network and less so on syndication, DS9 got a blinder eye turned to what the writers were doing. I think having Star Trek back on network television was to its detriment.
I can't blame that on the creative staff. I have worked in that kind of environment and sometimes you just have to perform your duties. It's not cool to get fired on a show like that. You all need to know that. That is simply how the industry works. There is a lot of turnaround. Some people worked for Star Trek for the bulk of their professional lives because they did a great job and weren't bitching about situations on the set of their show.

We got a lot of shows that were interfered with by network brass, just as the original series had. I personally think you have to work harder to sneak in that kind of subtle quality in the current era of network television, given the choices we have now.

The network mandated storylines are what they are. DS9 even had to do this when their ratings were sagging. That's why we get things like Worf on DS9, the Rock on VOY and the Borg on ENT.


People seem to think that Berman was Paramount's lapdog, but you know if he didn't do a great job with it, he would have been kicked to the curb long ago..

Speaking of which.. Notice now that most of the Modern Trek crew have been kicked to the curb and forgotten now that this new film is on the fast track of refreshing the whole franchise.

Are you gonna blame Berman for that too??

 

[CaptainCanada]

"In the ‘Next Generation' movies, I did not appear and Kirk was killed," Nimoy said. "It was as though someone was trying to create a dividing line between the original, classic series and the ‘New Generation' crew. I was out and Bill was dead. They never contacted me, never suggested anything, we never had discussion or conversation. I assumed that was it, it's over. I didn't feel great about it but I was OK with it. I've had my run and I had a lot of other interesting things I wanted to do. I didn't look back."

Sounds to me like Nimoy felt like they simply were not welcome in the country club we call Star Trek anymore. It shows you how ignorant Rick Berman was for not realizing the potential for making the Next Generation movies that much cooler by injecting some of the original series characters in it to liven things up. Make no mistake people, the humor in the Next Generation became way too politically correct. Everything the original series was not. I have a close friend who loved watching the original series, but hated the Next Generation movies because they felt too clean and not raw enough like the older films. No kidding. And Berman went on Trekking thinking he was doing Star Trek a favor.

Star Trek would have lived on without Voyager, or Deep Space Nine, or Enterprise, or Nemesis, or Insurrection, etc etc. The fanbase had already been established and cemented with the old show, and the Next Generation tv show (not the movies).

Arrogance screwed fans of the original series out of seeing their favorite characters during the 1990s.

Oh well. Better late than never!

Oh, seriously.

The TOS cast had their film series. There was no need to have them show up in the TNG films; TNG was an extremely popular show in its own right (the "torch-passing" Generations probably either needed to be done differently or not done; "Kirk and Picard together on the big screen" has undeniable cinematic appeal, and indeed the scenes of them together are pretty enjoyable, but the film as a whole just doesn't live up to the potential of the premise).

 

[Joby]

You have to remember that back in 1994 TOS was considered totally yesterday's news. TNG was the current Trek, and by all measure the future of the franchise. At that time it seemed ridiculous to include a TOS character in any film beyond GEN. Original series were more then welcome in the spinoff TV shows, but the movies? It was damn near suicidal to make such a move in the 90s.

 

[CaptainCanada]

"Suicidal" is an odd phrasing; it wouldn't have been a commercial problem. But it simply wasn't necessary.

 

[CDR6]

You know I've often thought about "the country club" as it were, the TNG producers seemed to take great pains to avoid showing even the "Connie" from the movies. Almost as if they were afraid the design would show how bad the "D" looked by compairson...if they should ever be seen side by side.... and no I don't blame Berman for this at all. (He got yanked around pretty badly by the "boys up in the front office.")

 

[indranee]

do you mean he screwed Trek over and was all very pleased with it?

HAH!! first!!

 

[number6]

You have to remember that back in 1994 TOS was considered totally yesterday's news. TNG was the current Trek, and by all measure the future of the franchise. At that time it seemed ridiculous to include a TOS character in any film beyond GEN. Original series were more then welcome in the spinoff TV shows, but the movies? It was damn near suicidal to make such a move in the 90s.

TOS was yesterday's news long before that.

GR's Phase II had written Spock out of the show when Nimoy decided not to do it. GR's original plan was to slowly phase out Shatner over time, letting Decker and Ilya take the main story with fewer appearances by Shatner.


TNG was produced in 1986. It didn't include the original cast at all, and with it being set so far in the future, it wasn't ever likely to include frequent appearances from the original cast.

 

[CaptainCanada]

You know I've often thought about "the country club" as it were, the TNG producers seemed to take great pains to avoid showing even the "Connie" from the movies. Almost as if they were afraid the design would show how bad the "D" looked by compairson...if they should ever be seen side by side....

Sigh.