Why post

[RainCrystal]

There is an episode in season three called "The Darkling" (when the Doctor has all these personalities in his programme and when Kes falls in love with a man from a stop-over planet). I'm puzzled about two things, maybe I missed something:

1. Why did the Doctor walk to the holodeck instead of transporting there like he always does?

2. A few episodes later Kes decides to leave Voyager with her new long hairstyle and special powers. Why didn't Kes return to the planet featured in "The Darkling" to reunite with her favourite man again?

Btw I really like that episode. The Doctor was funny and the planet was nice too. Interesting debate between Byron and Ghandi

 

[exodus]

Because Kes was becoming evil with her new powers and only wanted to harm people not love them.

Rewatch "Coldfire". In it, Kes descovers the limits of her powers and how they effect her. She has the ability to enhance life which makes her happy. She also has the ability to destroy life, that ability gives her the feeling of something similar to an orgasm.

Using her powers makes Kes evil because she keeps looking for the next big sensation to give herself the big "O". Hate brings Kes joy, not love.

I hate this ep.

 

[Kegek]

I really like this episode. And the third season in general - it's more or less my favourite VOY season. Robert Picardo gives a brilliant menacing performance.

And yes, the bit with Byron and Gandhi was fun. As was the Doctor exhibiting Byronic passion before Torres.

 

[RainCrystal]

I used to think Kes was very nice and caring but she did have those funny streaks of behaviour that come across if you watch Voyager again. Such as the time she scoffed down those insects in season 1 episode "Eloguim". Also I just watched "Before and After" and it shows Kes as an old woman becoming younger with each jump. It didn't explain how her hair suddenly grew long.

 

[RainCrystal]

That didn't seem like the younger Kes, but it was the old woman Kes who returned in a future season. She didn't seem able to control her powers in "Cold Fire" and it upset her when Tuvok was harmed by her powers.

 

[Phillip Culley]

Kegek said:Robert Picardo gives a brilliant menacing performance.

Although I'm not a fan of Darkling, Picardo does indeed improve my opinion of it - I've been rewatching through the series (up to Dark Frontier) and although he's not had the best storylines (Heroes and Demons, Darkling and Virtuoso come to mind), his performance has always made it worth watching.

 

[exodus]

RainCrystal said:
That didn't seem like the younger Kes, but it was the old woman Kes who returned in a future season. She didn't seem able to control her powers in "Cold Fire" and it upset her when Tuvok was harmed by her powers.

Yes, but at the end of the ep. she admits to Tuvok that using her power lets out her "darker impulses". Not being able to control her powers doesn't mean it doesn't give her a rush when she did use them. The rush you get from a feeling equal to that of sex is more powerful than ones own logic. The thrill Odo felt when linking with one of his own was so great it caused him to turn his back on all his friends. That thrill causes us to seek out sexual gratifcation over & over again, some even sell their soul for it.

This is what Kes feels every time she uses her power. Look at how she stopped Seven in "The Gift". She tried to electrocute her. Her powers were ripping the ship apart but she was still overjoyed at what was happening to her. Her logic and reasoning was becoming twisted even then.

 

[RainCrystal]

Powers of Kes

I should've called this thread "Powers of Kes" and not "why" (I anticipated asking lots of questions).

Well Perhaps you're right although do you think she's evil? I just watched "Scorpian 1" and "2" when Seven is introduced to Voyager. Kes had psychic visions of the alien race who are capable of destroying Borg. Perhaps she was wrong and misunderstood those aliens telepathic link to her. Janeway allied with the Borg against the aliens after listening to Kes. I haven't got round to watching "The Gift" again but I will probably see it tomorrow.

 

[exodus]

Re: Powers of Kes

RainCrystal said:
I should've called this thread "Powers of Kes" and not "why" (I anticipated asking lots of questions).

Well Perhaps you're right although do you think she's evil? I just watched "Scorpian 1" and "2" when Seven is introduced to Voyager. Kes had psychic visions of the alien race who are capable of destroying Borg. Perhaps she was wrong and misunderstood those aliens telepathic link to her. Janeway allied with the Borg against the aliens after listening to Kes. I haven't got round to watching "The Gift" again but I will probably see it tomorrow.

No, I don't believe Kes is evil. I do believe the massage was "absolute power corrupts absolutely".

Kes was too young and naive to have as much power as she did.

 

[JanewayWithaBob]

Re: Powers of Kes

I don't think Kes is evil in any way. If she were she would have had more than enough opportunity to act on that before "The Gift".

I have a personal theory that maybe her transformation wasn't her giving in to the darkness of her psychic powers, but it was actually a life stage for the Okampa.

Before you say "no way" hear me out on this.

Kes reiterates that there were rumors that the Okampa had amazing psychic powers before they went underground. A 9 year life span is really short for such an advanced species. It doesn't make sense why it would be so short, though adaptations like photographic memories and advanced development do back it up. But wouldn't it make more sense if the Okampa are supposed to develop quickly physically so they can learn and process as much information as possible before their psychic powers develop to bring them to this new level of reality? In "the Gift" the Doctor says she has elevated serotonin levels, in other words she was loaded with happy juice. If the transformation was an adaptation, she would have a drive to do it, and making it feel good is as good a reason as any. Why else would sex feel good, but to give your body that much more of a reason to do it. And Kes herself mentions that the "darkness" she felt was now something exciting that she didn't know was about, but was so excited and ready for it to happen.


In that same note, if Kes could have thrown Voyager 9,500 lightyears in three seconds, couldn't she have pushed it a little longer and thrown them that much closer to the Alpha Quadrant? How inconsiderate.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Re: Powers of Kes

She definitely got "high" from consuming the all the flowers in the airponics bay, during that brush with susperia which supports my theory that it was the Ocampa themselves who destroyed all the nulceonic acid in their homeworlds biosphere.

Sending them all the way home would have made Kes their caretaker, and she had lived that life badly from the other end that fighting for a sense of acomplishment is food for the soul the Voyager crew deserved to sew and reap themselves.

 

[RainCrystal]

Re: Powers of Kes

In that same note, if Kes could have thrown Voyager 9,500 lightyears in three seconds, couldn't she have pushed it a little longer and thrown them that much closer to the Alpha Quadrant? How inconsiderate.

Maybe Kes could only do so much with that burst. It's like running out on full energy after building up an amount. She only just found these megalithic powers. If she stayed with Voyager but remained in a shuttle craft, she could've aided Voyager along the way through the rest of the Delta quadrant and tried sending them home with a second or third gust of power. Or perhaps she needed to save all the energy after she used much of it to throw Voyager 9,500 light years away.

 

[RainCrystal]

Re: Powers of Kes

Guy Gardener said:
She definitely got "high" from consuming the all the flowers in the airponics bay, during that brush with susperia which supports my theory that it was the Ocampa themselves who destroyed all the nulceonic acid in their homeworlds biosphere.

Sending them all the way home would have made Kes their caretaker, and she had lived that life badly from the other end that fighting for a sense of acomplishment is food for the soul the Voyager crew deserved to sew and reap themselves.

That is a really good interpretation that I never considered: that Okampa planet was destroyed by its own people. How exactly did the Okampa world get the way it was? Maybe they did do something with it? Are the Kazon aware of these people's powers? Or do the Okampa have limited or no powers while living underground? Its amazing but the Caretakers value the Okampa who have this hidden buried godlike potential. The caretaker people are also godlike, but not like the Q (I don't understand why the Q don't help Voyager get back to the Alpha quadrant).

 

[exodus]

Re: Powers of Kes

JanewayWithaBob said:


Kes reiterates that there were rumors that the Okampa had amazing psychic powers before they went underground. A 9 year life span is really short for such an advanced species. It doesn't make sense why it would be so short, though adaptations like photographic memories and advanced development do back it up. But wouldn't it make more sense if the Okampa are supposed to develop quickly physically so they can learn and process as much information as possible before their psychic powers develop to bring them to this new level of reality? In "the Gift" the Doctor says she has elevated serotonin levels, in other words she was loaded with happy juice. If the transformation was an adaptation, she would have a drive to do it, and making it feel good is as good a reason as any. Why else would sex feel good, but to give your body that much more of a reason to do it. And Kes herself mentions that the "darkness" she felt was now something exciting that she didn't know was about, but was so excited and ready for it to happen.

Watch "Coldfire" again, the male Ocampian Kes interacts with explains where Kes goes and what she's seeing when she "entered" her new level of existance.

Everything in "Coldfire" directly links to "Fury".

Guy , I believe you are also correct in your assumption that the Ocampians may have destroyed their own world.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Re: Powers of Kes

RainCrystal said:

Guy Gardener said:
She definitely got "high" from consuming the all the flowers in the airponics bay, during that brush with susperia which supports my theory that it was the Ocampa themselves who destroyed all the nulceonic acid in their homeworlds biosphere.

Sending them all the way home would have made Kes their caretaker, and she had lived that life badly from the other end that fighting for a sense of acomplishment is food for the soul the Voyager crew deserved to sew and reap themselves.

That is a really good interpretation that I never considered: that Okampa planet was destroyed by its own people. How exactly did the Okampa world get the way it was? Maybe they did do something with it? Are the Kazon aware of these people's powers? Or do the Okampa have limited or no powers while living underground? Its amazing but the Caretakers value the Okampa who have this hidden buried godlike potential. The caretaker people are also godlike, but not like the Q (I don't understand why the Q don't help Voyager get back to the Alpha quadrant).

God helps those who help themselves, and so does Q. He did give them new star Charts. That's kind of generous I suppose? But an abject downtrodden mulch of mortals tend to be little more on bended knee to a god than the folkes who are given everything they demand... Or do you think that Janeway would not make a god Job?

Besides as soon as Q sourly offered Earth as a bribe in Deathwish, that means that it was possible he could push them all back to the beginning in the middle of the wreckage of the Caretakers array like they were playing snakes and ladders if they pissed him off because they're all easily manipulated playthings if they dare lap up an ounce of his bullshit and admit that they can't do this without him. He's a capricious trickster god who you shouldn't trust for a fair deal with even the most carefully worded contract.

The only thing we were told about the "destruction" of Ocampa by banjoman is That "They could never be forgiven" which originally I took to mean that the Caretakers just did somethign idiotic. But if they had kicked the Ocampa up the evolutionary ladder a couple million years and then thses science experiments destroyed their own world 1/2 an hour later because they'd gone mad with power as they ate life... It's no wonder that they were stuck in a steel box 3 miles underground and had had their reproductive systems mutilated that their population base would halve every generation(Unless Kes explained it badly there's no way the Ocampa could sustain growth and that that could not have been how spread out across a planet or filled up that metal box under ground.) until they were extinct and no longer a threat to all other life in the galaxy, maybe their life spans were pinched too by the caretaker? Susperia's lot could live till they were 14 and older. i mean genocide is one thing, but sustaining and maintaining a death rattle for over a thousand years is M(*&^&^%(**&^^$%ing insane.

If each and every single Ocampa is basically a world devourer like Galactus, then Janeway REALLY screwed the pooch on this one letting this apocalyptic menace run loose from it's cage that matter would break down around when they began to get really powered up.

The Caretaker is a bigger idiot than I previously thought.

 

[exodus]

Re: Powers of Kes

^^I don't know if he was an idiot as much as he was innocent minded.

It could be the Ocampa tricked him into believing he destroyed their world inorder for him to care for them seeing as how they had "eaten" their own. Why bother leaving if you can influnce a greater being into taking care of you. The Caretaker basically became their sugar daddy.

Susperia did believe him to be foolish in caring for a people that could care for themselves.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Re: Powers of Kes

I couldn't be bothered editing my last huge post since it took me long enough to get all that out with it still barely making sense, but I seem to recall something about their lifeform/technology being incompatible with something? Maybe it was just an explosion, or maybe the forced evolution was a secondary effect?

You've heard my rant before. Banjo was probably a janitor or third class technician in charge of keeping the automated snack machines stocked with chicken soup and mars bars, or the alien equivalent... Expendable enough to be left behind. And then after a thousand years of looking after the Ocampa he'd gone insane or senile or both on top of whatever other limitations he'd had in his prime.

And this mental deficiency I perceived is just based on the fact that it took Tuvok a few seconds to figure out how to use his "Galactic transporter" to get Voyager home, when Banjoman claimed the machinery was too difficult and too complex and he didn't have time and to figure out all the... It took the Vulcan seconds as if this device was a jack in the box toy made by Sesame Street, and with the Vulcan plotting the trip back home, then probably they wouldn't have lost 1/4 the crew again. Seconds! Even if Banjoman wasn't an engineer, he'd had had those systems to play with for a thousand years, and supposedly he sent Gul Evek's ship back so the route home was already in the buffer. It's like if the monkeys with typewriters where smashing the keys with a hammer to write Shakespeare.

And the final cherry icing on the top come his end game, after a thousand years preparing for his final moments... his final solution to look after his pets was to stick his "dick" in anything that got with in range of his "dick" to see if a baby would come out despite having poisonous nuclear sperm he couldn't conjure a cure for so as to leave harry and B'Elann for dead, when the Doctor fixed them up in SECONDS! And he wouldn't be around to raise this hybrid child t give it the education it would need to Shepard all these fully grown Ocampa? God help us all if he left interactive journals like Jor-El did for Kal-El!

This would have been a strange chapter in deed for Robinson Crewso as he tried to make a hybrid human to look after the pitiful savage Friday, by having sex with all the animals on the island he was trapped with and Friday once a week too just to see if it wasn't impossible for two men to have a baby... The Caretaker was obviously not a biologist either.

CARETAKER SHAGGED ALL THE MEN AND WOMEN ON VOYAGER BECAUSE HE DIDN'T KNOW WHICH ONE CARRIED CHILDREN! ...This is even more dimwitted when you consider that he had already shagged everyone onboard the Equinox. That he was prepared to rape the entire Voyager crew on the Off chance that one of them might be a mutant or... Had he forgotten that he had raped the crew of the Equinox?

 

[RainCrystal]

Re: Powers of Kes

Guy Gardener said:

This would have been a strange chapter in deed for Robinson Crewso as he tried to make a hybrid human to look after the pitiful savage Friday, by having sex with all the animals on the island he was trapped with and Friday once a week too just to see if it wasn't impossible for two men to have a baby... The Caretaker was obviously not a biologist either.

CARETAKER SHAGGED ALL THE MEN AND WOMEN ON VOYAGER BECAUSE HE DIDN'T KNOW WHICH ONE CARRIED CHILDREN! ...This is even more dimwitted when you consider that he had already shagged everyone onboard the Equinox. That he was prepared to rape the entire Voyager crew on the Off chance that one of them might be a mutant or... Had he forgotten that he had raped the crew of the Equinox?

Exactly. He did interfere with the crew of Voyager and they all forgot about that. There was a scene showing everyone being taken from Voyager and appearing naked in some suspension, and Harry Kim being the first to get punctured in the chest with a knitting needle. Then all of a sudden they were back on Voyager because Caretaker didn't want them anymore. I might've missed something here but this is what I don't understand. Why would the Caretaker, as powerful as he was, snatch ships full of people from different parts of the galaxy to see if they're compatible then find they were not? what was B'Lanna and Kim doing together in the room. I wondered if they were put there for mating purposes, a man and woman dressed in only a shift. Because it's made for TV they didn't want to show any nudity but I'm sure there would've been if this was real. Then B'Lanna and Kim wasn't what Caretaker was looking for anyway to let them go. He said the Okampa were like "children" but they had enough knowledge behind them.

Guy how did you come up with the idea about Robinson Crusoe, the animals and Friday?

 

[Guy Gardener]

Re: Powers of Kes

The crew lost three days they can't account for.

In a bad way.

The Doctor who was left alone on Voyager while they were all being inseminated mentioned during the pilot that they'd been gone for that long, and backed up that information again in Projections when he replayed those events from a slightly skewed perspective.

B'Elanna and Kim had "bad" (re: Fatal) reactions to Caretaker having sex with them. It's like how John Holmes was still doing porno without protection after they told him he had aids. Caretaker sent his f^%kbuddies to Ocampa to die. The Ocampan Doctor said that Banjoman sent people to Ocampa to die all the time of the same usual symptoms which was afflicting Harry and the Klingon, which of course was from being stuffed full of Sporocystian reproductive biomatter(Cosmic Cum or Space Spunk, whatever you what to call his bio reaction mating agent.) in the hopes that they'd be impregnated on the off chance.

The Caretaker kept snatching ships, and Neelix said there had been a lot sad stories about ships snatched and left lost in space there abouts, but Gul Evek who was taken at the same time as Chakotay a week before Janeway was sent home we've been led to speculate. So Caretaker kept trying to mate with all sorts of aliens and despite that they all just kept dying no matter how tender he was, the idiot kept randomly pulling in more ships from different corners of the galaxy to see if they thought he was sexy and if they knew how to make babies with him.

Although you can tell from the start that he was still right crap with the net transporter grabby thing, that after raping Equinox, the Val Jean and Gul Eveks Galor Class Cruiser to no positive result he still reached out and plucked unlucky Voyager from the exact same heavens as the other three as if there would be different... Isn't that a classic definition of insanity? Expecting a new outcome from committing the same repeated events or actions?

It's not to different from Willy Wonker tricking those children into being persecuted until he finally "adopted" one of them so that that impressionable and claylike child could be transformed into an identical like minded little Willy Mark II. I mean that's what he said in the glass elevator, that he wanted to control how Charlie thought so that he wouldn't deviate from the expectations of a respectable Wonker. After the ending credits, that movie probably became a lot like a Clock Work Orange. I wonder if Willy married Charlie's Mommy? (Yes, his father was alive in the book, but I'm not talking about the book!)

We know what sort of Romance that went on between Janeway and her monkey in Resolutions RainCrystal, and I personally expect twice as less celibacy toward the flora and fauna from a man, compared to some one as frigid as kathy.