I hate it when people beat me to the correct answer.
Sisko is devious and smart; Kirk is a crazy cowboy. Sisko beats Kirk. But both beat Picard, who is a boring old granny.
Why Picard is better than Kirk
- Thread starter Tcsfan
- Start date
I hate it when people beat me to the correct answer.
Sisko is devious and smart; Kirk is a crazy cowboy. Sisko beats Kirk. But both beat Picard, who is a boring old granny.
His beats won't arrive before Tuesday.
It's just harmless fun. besides, after all these years, what do we have left to talk about?
You DO understand that I was only joking with my captain picks, yes?
You're right, of course. There have been so many different subjects debated numerous times... but I guess that's to be expected. 
I suspected as much, but I rarely pass up an opportunity to dis Archer
Harriman was written to be numpty, in order for Kirk to come off as more 'actiony' and 'heroic'. I alwaus think that he was a rookie Captain, overwhelmed by the situation, but who would eventually grow into his role. But he's still a better character than Archer
^that's pretty much how the novels treated him.
It would be fair to say Picard was a better diplomat than Kirk, but that could simply have been an aspect of his Starfleet training. Sure Kirk could play the diplomat but that wasn't his natural style, and yes he did resolve or on numerous occasions try to resolve a situtation with words alone.
Was Kirk quicker to take more direct action than Picard perhaps, but had the roles been reversed at Picard been a Captain in the 23rd Century and Kirk a Captain in the 24th, would it have been the opposite way around?
The UFP of the 24th century appeared to be in a less exapansionist phase than during Kirk's era.
Was Kirk quicker to take more direct action than Picard perhaps, but had the roles been reversed at Picard been a Captain in the 23rd Century and Kirk a Captain in the 24th, would it have been the opposite way around?
The UFP of the 24th century appeared to be in a less exapansionist phase than during Kirk's era.
I would submit that the exact opposite is true.
The only example of expansion of the federation we heard of during TOS was in Journey to Babel.
It was the TNG federation that engaged in a general policy of territorial expansion, during seven seasons of TNG this was a common theme. We heard of a lot of new colonies being established. The Federation fought at least two wars (territorial wars?) with the Tzenkethi, it was the Federation's attempt to expand and colonize beyond it's existing borders that lead to a long running territorial war with the Cardassians and ultimately created the Maquis. It was the Federation's attempts to establish a mining settlement (and facilitate a Bajorian colony) in the Gamma quadrant that resulted in the Dominion War.
The thing is, Kirk is a LEGEND. Picard is a great captain. Kirk will always surpass all other captains.
Sisko was all a'flutter when he got to hand Kirk some paperwork but when he met Picard he wanted to punch his lights out. Okay there was the matter of his wife's death but still..
Sisko was all a'flutter when he got to hand Kirk some paperwork but when he met Picard he wanted to punch his lights out. Okay there was the matter of his wife's death but still..
Well, you have to consider how their achievements compare with their handicaps to get a full picture:
1) Kirk:
Handicap: Monstrous stutter.
Cure or palliative measure: Talked with his fists as much as possible.
Achievements: Bedded more green-skinned ladies this anyone this side of Will Riker, punched a giant lizard, stopped nazis IN SPACE, cow-boys IN SPACE and whales IN SPACE.
Rating: 100+ out of 10. An average individual with that enormous a speech impediment would be a complete social pariah, in light of that, Kirk's achievements are nothing short of superhuman.
2) Picard.
Handicap: French.
Cure or palliative measure: There is no cure for being french.
Achievements: Best diplomat to ever walk this universe or any other, enjoyed moderate romantic success, always with much younger partners, actually won the military engagements and most of the hand-to-hand fights (one notable exception, of course) he's been forced to partake in, gently brushed some soil for ancient artifacts.
Rating: 9001 out of 10. French. Won battles. 'nuff said.
3) Sisko.
Handicap: IQ below room temperature.
Cure or palliative measure: Shouting one word out of 3.
Achievements: Sported the only non-evil goatee in human history.
Rating: 250 out of 10. Ok, Kirk not being socially crippled by his stutter is a massive achievement, but come on: non-evil goatee! Most of us hadn't even entertained the possibility of such an event.
4) Janeway.
Handicap: Severe bipolar disorder.
Cure or palliative measure: in the 21st century, we use antidepressants, in the 24th they seemingly either discovered new virtues to coffee or have invented some pretty miraculous coffee. Either way, coffee.
Achievements: resisted introducing the Kazons to hairdressers, resisted the urge to stab Neelix with the captain's standard issue shank, resisted Jeri Ryan's charms for years on end.
Rating: Plank's constant out of 10. I don't share her handicap and yet couldn't have manifested anything ressembling her composure in any of those 3 respects.
5) Archer:
Handicap: Averageness. It's a curse, I tell you!
Cure or palliative measure: Barely concealed beastiality.
Achievements: uttered lines several have uttered before (or will utter later, depending how you see it), was the first owner of a non-noisy dog in the history of mankind, kept a straight face where many wouldn't have managed to.
Rating: 7 out of 10. Come on, the real achievement is Porthos', not Archer's.
Verdict: apparently, Janeway wins by a landslide. Then again, I forgot about Picard's Neelix (Wesley)...
PS: I know, the Archer one is poorly done, just included it for exhaustivity's sake.
1) Kirk:
Handicap: Monstrous stutter.
Cure or palliative measure: Talked with his fists as much as possible.
Achievements: Bedded more green-skinned ladies this anyone this side of Will Riker, punched a giant lizard, stopped nazis IN SPACE, cow-boys IN SPACE and whales IN SPACE.
Rating: 100+ out of 10. An average individual with that enormous a speech impediment would be a complete social pariah, in light of that, Kirk's achievements are nothing short of superhuman.
2) Picard.
Handicap: French.
Cure or palliative measure: There is no cure for being french.
Achievements: Best diplomat to ever walk this universe or any other, enjoyed moderate romantic success, always with much younger partners, actually won the military engagements and most of the hand-to-hand fights (one notable exception, of course) he's been forced to partake in, gently brushed some soil for ancient artifacts.
Rating: 9001 out of 10. French. Won battles. 'nuff said.
3) Sisko.
Handicap: IQ below room temperature.
Cure or palliative measure: Shouting one word out of 3.
Achievements: Sported the only non-evil goatee in human history.
Rating: 250 out of 10. Ok, Kirk not being socially crippled by his stutter is a massive achievement, but come on: non-evil goatee! Most of us hadn't even entertained the possibility of such an event.
4) Janeway.
Handicap: Severe bipolar disorder.
Cure or palliative measure: in the 21st century, we use antidepressants, in the 24th they seemingly either discovered new virtues to coffee or have invented some pretty miraculous coffee. Either way, coffee.
Achievements: resisted introducing the Kazons to hairdressers, resisted the urge to stab Neelix with the captain's standard issue shank, resisted Jeri Ryan's charms for years on end.
Rating: Plank's constant out of 10. I don't share her handicap and yet couldn't have manifested anything ressembling her composure in any of those 3 respects.
5) Archer:
Handicap: Averageness. It's a curse, I tell you!
Cure or palliative measure: Barely concealed beastiality.
Achievements: uttered lines several have uttered before (or will utter later, depending how you see it), was the first owner of a non-noisy dog in the history of mankind, kept a straight face where many wouldn't have managed to.
Rating: 7 out of 10. Come on, the real achievement is Porthos', not Archer's.
Verdict: apparently, Janeway wins by a landslide. Then again, I forgot about Picard's Neelix (Wesley)...
PS: I know, the Archer one is poorly done, just included it for exhaustivity's sake.
The question is how would the likes of Picard, Sisko et al be viewed a hundred years later.
Assuming it's a poll of your average idiot on the street not Starfleet gunzels..
100 years later Picard would be remembered for his Borg connection, that Admiral who was a Borg.
No one would remember Sisko and if they did he would be some Starfleet dude who was in a cult. But that would only be wannabe Starfleet gunzels who remembered that.
No one would remember Janeway.
Archer is apparently just some guy who got lucky and had a first since we only get one reference to him in ST:XI (and that was about his dog.. Xhiandra is right about who was important there). So no one would remember him either.
KIRK would have his own comic book series, his own holonovel series (including Adult Only episodes) and be the answer to every trivia question that began "what Starfleet captain.." ever.
100 years later Picard would be remembered for his Borg connection, that Admiral who was a Borg.
No one would remember Sisko and if they did he would be some Starfleet dude who was in a cult. But that would only be wannabe Starfleet gunzels who remembered that.
No one would remember Janeway.
Archer is apparently just some guy who got lucky and had a first since we only get one reference to him in ST:XI (and that was about his dog.. Xhiandra is right about who was important there). So no one would remember him either.
KIRK would have his own comic book series, his own holonovel series (including Adult Only episodes) and be the answer to every trivia question that began "what Starfleet captain.." ever.
No one would remember Sisko?
A man who was at the forefront of the Dominion War? Who was responsible for several major victories? Who discovered the first stable wormhole in existence? Who helped rebuild and stablise Bajor after the Occupation? Who helped design the Defiant-Class starship? Who was the most important icon in Bajoran mythology?
That Sisko?
Yeah, you're probably right. He's quite forgettable
A man who was at the forefront of the Dominion War? Who was responsible for several major victories? Who discovered the first stable wormhole in existence? Who helped rebuild and stablise Bajor after the Occupation? Who helped design the Defiant-Class starship? Who was the most important icon in Bajoran mythology?
That Sisko?
Yeah, you're probably right. He's quite forgettable
and Janeway would be remembered for a seven year trek through the Delta Quadrant, making first contact with several dozen species.
100 years on Picard, Sisko and Janeway will have their place in Starfleet history.
Picard's time commanding the Stargazer already made him famous enough that Geordi read about him in the Academy. Take into account fifteen years commanding two Enterprises.
Sisko could very well be one of Starfleet's greatest war heroes. Plus he's responisble for Starfleet being able to access the Gamma Quadrant.
Janeway broke the record for most first contacts by a single captain that had been held by Kirk. Plus, she's provided Starfleet with all the knowledge they have of the Delta Quadrant.
Picard's time commanding the Stargazer already made him famous enough that Geordi read about him in the Academy. Take into account fifteen years commanding two Enterprises.
Sisko could very well be one of Starfleet's greatest war heroes. Plus he's responisble for Starfleet being able to access the Gamma Quadrant.
Janeway broke the record for most first contacts by a single captain that had been held by Kirk. Plus, she's provided Starfleet with all the knowledge they have of the Delta Quadrant.
Who would remember our gallant captains one hundred years on? Probably about the same percentage of the population that today IRL avidly follows the history of NASA or the U.S. Navy.
(Kirk may be the exception here. He did, after all, save the entire Earth from V'Ger. That probably got a lot of press coverage...not to mention a few holo-movie adaptations. It would probably depend a lot on whether the headlines at the time read "James Kirk Saves Earth" or "Federation Starship Saves Earth."
)
(Kirk may be the exception here. He did, after all, save the entire Earth from V'Ger. That probably got a lot of press coverage...not to mention a few holo-movie adaptations. It would probably depend a lot on whether the headlines at the time read "James Kirk Saves Earth" or "Federation Starship Saves Earth."
)
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Wasn't the line, "You've made first contact with more species than anyone SINCE Kirk"?
If it were 'since' is the operative word as it implies that Kirk still holds the record. After all the line would be more along the lines of You've made more firs contacts than any other Captain"
