Why no phaser beams?

[Cyke101]

The only thing I don't like about "JJ" phasers is the way they all bend and curve in STID. I get it, you can make it seem more dynamic that way, but it's very hard to justify.

IIRC, they were originally meant to bend only during the warp chase, since canonically phasers aren't very effective at warp because you're traveling faster than the beam itself. It would make sense to fire behind, not in front. But I also thought it was a neat way to acknowledge the limitations of phasers, akin to trying to throw a baseball in front of you while riding a Ferrari.

But Abrams liked the effect so much that he ended up using it in normal space. Which, I agree, doesn't make a lot of sense.

Thankfully, they went back to straight phasers in Beyond.

To this day, I still giggle when I see the Reliant with its "evil" red bridge lights.

I know the viewscreen = windshield was largely an invention of the Abrams movies, but look at the sheer brightness of that red light. I love picturing that Khan, Joachim, and the others were just completely blinded with a giant spotlight behind them this entire time.

Khan: Turn the lights down!

Joachim, struggling with the controls and then hitting them in frustration: I CAN'T

 

[fireproof78]

The phasers in Kelvin universe always made sense to me.

 

[CorporalClegg]

I think they kinda got it right in the Kelvin Timeline. IMO, a long phaser beam is more ideal for drilling or cutting through something. It could be argued that the longer a phaser stays in contact with something, the quicker it might wear it down (especially if it's shielded), but multiple hits from shorter phaser bursts might do the same thing.

Against another person with a phaser or disruptor, it's probably better to have shorter bursts in order to better duck and weave while exchanging fire.

Yup.

Like you say, "beams" are great if you can aim with precision and know exactly what you're supposed to be hitting (as was shown in WOK). The problem is those two things are almost never true. It also works best if you or your targets aren't moving. (Again. Never happens.)

So, at least in the way Star Trek depicts combat, the ideal "laser" weapon would be something is burst-fire, preferably from multiple sources--a laser Gatling gun, if you will--that produces a cone of fire. Of course, seeing as how they're beams of light being auto-fired, the cone would have to be artificially created, but this would keep it consistent and allow to balance the area of effect and focus. These would also allow them to be used like Phalanx gun.

Another thing to consider is the energy transfer. I assume the standard rules apply as Star Trek as never suggest otherwise. Assuming all the math for the proper rate-of-fire is correct, firing in bursts would help constantly keep the energy source close to or at critical mass over the period of fire, (Something STO gets wrong, BTW.) especially if each "barrel" of the Gatling phaser had its own.

 

[Timo]

I don't see why repeated short pulses would be superior to a sustained beam in any situation.

Having bursts means having pauses. So, less devastation delivered to the target per unit of time. Fewer units of time in which potentially to score a hit, too. And if that's not already bad enough, there's the possibility that a beam needs to be ramped up at the beginning and down at the end - so the greater number of pauses, the more time wasted on ramping, not just absolutely speaking but relatively speaking, too.

On the plus side for bursts could be "cooling" between them, allowing for greater power levels when the bursts are on than if the beam were sustained. But that's assuming bursts that are different from beams in power level, which is different from arguing that pulses are better than beams as such.

Oh, there could also be some desirable effect from "impact" or "onset", as opposed to "sustaining". Lasers have some of this: they do nice damage at first, then blow up so much vapor that they sorta block themselves. Phasers are also sometimes seen to spray something out of the point of impact...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Ithekro]

Or the old phaser turrets needed to move before they could fire again while tracking a target (moving while shooting might somehow, say, melt the edges of the emitter?) and thus TWOK style phasers are for repositioning the balls between shots and they alternate to give keep the stream of phaser energy hitting the target to be nearly constant. The later TNG style phaser strips allow for the beam to remain more or less constant as it travels from emitter to emitter along the strip. And even then, they don't often maintain fire on a target without firing again from the same strip.

 

[Markonian]

I like variety. In STO, I use both regular beams and Kelvin phasers. They're all so cool.

 

[mos6507]

I agree with the other posts.
It hearkens back to The Wrath of Khan.

No it doesn't. Wrath of Khan is choppy but still beam-like, maybe lightning-bolt like. Kelvin is just a Star Wars blaster type effect (complete with the pop-gun sound effects).

 

[fireproof78]

No it doesn't. Wrath of Khan is choppy but still beam-like, maybe lightning-bolt like. Kelvin is just a Star Wars blaster type effect (complete with the pop-gun sound effects).

Because Star Trek has never used them before?

 

[Balok's Decoy]

I really dig the Kelvin phasers. I especially get a kick out of using them on the Kelvin Constitution Class in STO. More viscerally satisfying than the traditional beams.

 

[Richard Baker]

I can see how pulsed phasers could be more powerful- a sustained beam heating up the emitters while a pulse could be 150% the rated output but shutdown between pulses prevents overheating. IIRC the Reliant had standard phaser turrets on it but never used them- Khan used the roll bar 'megaphasers' which pulsed instead.

visually pulse fire gives a battle scene depth as the move and reduce in spacing and size in the distance. Pure beams just fill the sky with lines and only impart depth as they get slightly narrower further away.

side note- for me the the most awesome beam weapon was the one used by the Shadows in Babylon 5- a solid bar of light which just swept through ships, slicing them up into tumbling pieces

 

[CorporalClegg]

I think their awesomeness was more a byproduct of Franke epicness.

 

[Devilpogostick]

I'll be honest...I like the Kelvin phasers.

It gives kind of a refreshing new take like most of the reboot which I never have problems with...Despite how much it messes up the way things work in Trek overall (Into Darkness was fun but...Damn did it mess a lot of things up for a story). I know it sounds like heresy because it's literally less Star Trek and more Star Wars but you know what, I can dig it.

I always imagined they were repurposed to be a pseudo point blank defense turrets after the Narada's torpedos really pounded the Kelvin down. Starfleet wasn't taking chances and actually reworked their defenses in case shields don't hold up.

...Which of course, doesn't really work but hey, props to them for trying.

 

[Timo]

IIRC the Reliant had standard phaser turrets on it but never used them- Khan used the roll bar 'megaphasers' which pulsed instead.

More like 'microphasers' - the roll bars have just single ball emitters instead of the twin ones of the saucer, and the beams come from those, not from the big tubes at the ends of the roll bar cylinders.

The pulsing isn't different from that of Kirk's saucer phasers...

side note- for me the the most awesome beam weapon was the one used by the Shadows in Babylon 5- a solid bar of light which just swept through ships, slicing them up into tumbling pieces

Serenity also has a cool one - the Reaver ship chasing our heroes down to the atmosphere lights up with one of those, and there's this buzzing electric sound that conveys utter menace even though it's a miss.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[fireproof78]

I'll be honest...I like the Kelvin phasers.

It gives kind of a refreshing new take like most of the reboot which I never have problems with...Despite how much it messes up the way things work in Trek overall (Into Darkness was fun but...Damn did it mess a lot of things up for a story). I know it sounds like heresy because it's literally less Star Trek and more Star Wars but you know what, I can dig it.

I always imagined they were repurposed to be a pseudo point blank defense turrets after the Narada's torpedos really pounded the Kelvin down. Starfleet wasn't taking chances and actually reworked their defenses in case shields don't hold up.

...Which of course, doesn't really work but hey, props to them for trying.

This is my take as well, that Starfleet took all the combat information from that first encounter and put it in to the phaser research, for good or for ill.

Also, the Defiant had some phasers kind of like it too

 

[Timo]

The thing is, there's no real indication Starfleet even knew what happened to the Kelvin.

Sure, there were survivors, and memorials, and Pike wrote a whole dissertation on the subject. But even Pike himself then forgot all about it! Come 2258, nobody in Starfleet is any more prepared for the Narada than in 2233, or aware of the possibility of something like that existing.

Or then it's a state secret, and only the folks flying to Laurentius are told they're about to intercept a very big and very mean ghost from the past. Except it's all devious Nero disinformation, and the ghost is actually at Vulcan. But the newest ship, commanded by the foremost Narada expert, still remains unprepared in every fashion.

Those "new" pulse phasers aren't any better at stopping incoming Nero missiles than the Kelvin solid beams were. Instead, they're just as super-efficient at stopping Nero missiles aimed at third parties as the original Kelvin beams were...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[fireproof78]

The thing is, there's no real indication Starfleet even knew what happened to the Kelvin.

Except for Pike's dissertation. I didn't say it was a perfect response, but that it was a response, and not just with the phasers but also the larger ship design. The pulsing phaser design seems to offer more shots per second and offset some of the Kelvin's weaknesses.

Since the Narada hand't been seen in 20 plus years there was no guarantee that any countermeasure Starfleet put forward would work.

 

[Hey Missy]

To me, the big, long beams coming from the AGT Enterprise-D that slice apart Klingon ships or the Enterprise-E firing lances in several directions in Nemesis seem more visually powerful than thousands of little laser dots shooting about, which just appear weak and less dramatic.

 

[fireproof78]

To me, the big, long beams coming from the AGT Enterprise-D that slice apart Klingon ships or the Enterprise-E firing lances in several directions in Nemesis seem more visually powerful than thousands of little laser dots shooting about, which just appear weak and less dramatic.

Mileage will vary, but it makes sense to me in context of the world building of Kelvin universe. Certainly worked well for the Defiant as well.

 

[Hey Missy]

Mileage will vary, but it makes sense to me in context of the world building of Kelvin universe.

Spoiler

Which was to be like Star Wars. I know it's considered "edgy" to say so but that's exactly what JJ was going for, in the 2009 movie at least.

Certainly worked well for the Defiant as well.

Those were "pulse cannons" so they're allowed to be different.

 

[fireproof78]

Spoiler

Which was to be like Star Wars. I know it's considered "edgy" to say so but that's exactly what JJ was going for, in the 2009 movie at least.

Yes, how dare he...

And, I was actually referring to in world, but that's fair.

Those were "pulse cannons" so they're allowed to be different.

Oh, right...like the particle weapons for the MACOs?