Why No Federation Ships Bigger Than A Galaxy Class?

[Dayton3]

I posted a simliar questions a couple of years ago.

It seems to me that ever since the Galaxy class was introduced we've seen other powers in the Galaxy, the Romulans, Klingons, Dominion field starships considerably larger than the Galaxy.

But Starfleet hasn't built anything larger than the Galaxy. In fact Starfleet has actually gone the other way, the Sovereign is only about 2/3rds the size of a Galaxy overall.

The largest Federation ship we've ever seen onscreen has been the Galaxy class dreadnought from "All Good Things" which is probably about 20% larger than a standard Galaxy class ship.

I think it would be interesting to see a new class of vessels in the 1,200 or 1,500 meter length range with 50-55 decks.

 

[John Picard]

Bigger isn't always better.

 

[GodThingFormerly]

Dayton3 said:
I think it would be interesting to see a new class of vessels in the 1,200 or 1,500 meter length range with 50-55 decks.

Whether one wishes to design an early 21st century polar-orbiting weather satellite for the NOAA or a late 24th century manned interstellar space exploration/combat vehicle for Starfleet, the primary system design drivers are invariably dependent upon the specific mission the customer wants the spacecraft to undertake. The actual hardware sizing, blueprinting, fabrication, integration and qualification only become issues much later in the development process. With that in mind, what missions could your 1500 meter monster execute that a Galaxy Class starship could not, particularly considering that we never got to see more than a miniscule fraction of the E-D's interior volume?

TGT

 

[Dayton3]

Extremely long duration missions away from support OR contact with Starfleet.

Including the ability to "seed" an unexplored area of space with permanent outposts and bases for the Federation.

 

[GodThingFormerly]

Dayton3 said:
Extremely long duration missions away from support OR contact with Starfleet.

Which is exactly what the Galaxy Class was designed for, at least according to the interviews with Gene Roddenberry that were published in Starlog and other MediaSF periodicals before ST:TNG began airing.

Including the ability to "seed" an unexplored area of space with permanent outposts and bases for the Federation.

Fair enough, but wouldn't it be more efficient for Starfleet to design, say, a modular cargo-optimized primary hull for the Galaxy that can deploy automated self-growing surface facilities which would then be populated by a subsequent mission carried out with a conventional Galaxy/Nebula/Whatever?

TGT

 

[Dayton3]

Roddenberry interviews are not considered canon.

The Galaxy class as seen on ST:TNG never ventured far from Federation support much less contact.

 

[cardinal biggles]

That's a limitation of the writers, then, not a limitation of the ship's design.

 

[Captain Robert April]

Why don't they do a bigger ship?

Because this ain't Star Wars or Battlestar Galactica.

 

[Vance]

The Galaxy is already pretty ridiculous in size when you think about it.. why do you NEED more than that? Is the 'annual galactic urinal contest' being held or something? That seems to be the only reason the ships keep getting bigger and bigger.

The Galaxy has a crew of 1,000 (including families) in a ship that can comfortably house ten times that amount. What, exactly, is LACKING?

 

[USS KG5]

Vance said:
The Galaxy has a crew of 1,000 (including families) in a ship that can comfortably house ten times that amount. What, exactly, is LACKING?

Well actually it could luxuriously support 10,000 people. By standards of modern military accomodation (say 5000 on a Nimitz class carrier) it could comfortable accomodate 50,000 people.

The Galaxy is ridiculously big as it is in many ways - though it is basically and clearly a "do it all" ship so has to contain everything a long term mission would need. If it had been the Enterprise-D stranded in Voyager, it would have had a much easier time.

The only ships we have seen that are supposedly significantly bigger amongst the Alpha quadrant powers are the Romulan warbirds (seemingly designed to scare people, hence the size). There are also the Dominion battleships (same difference) and several slighlty bigger ships (like the Negh V'ar).

In terms of a 20th century fleet that fans love to use pretty much ALL Starfleet ships are cruisers, they are all flag flying exploring police ships at least some of their lives. The concept of a Battleship or Dreadnaught (big target designed to show whose is biggest to a foreign power) would probably be a bit off for Starfleet.

 

[C.E. Evans]

Personally, I've always kinda thought Starfleet would start scaling down their ships in the future in lieu of building more of them. Regardless of one's take on the economics of the Federation, it will always be more efficient to build several smaller ships than one gigantic one with the same amount of resources available. I think as the Federation continues to expand, Starfleet will need more and more ships to carry out its various missions and large vessels like the Galaxy- and Sovereign-classes will be more the exception than the rule.

Let the Romulans have their oversized whales, IMO...

 

[Deks]

Size rarely makes a difference in Trek.
Size won't save you if the opponent has a smaller ship which can deliver a same punch that can run circles around you and hide in the blind spots of your weapons.

The Intrepid class was apparently designed to overcome that limitation.
Same capabilities and weapons as the Galaxy class but smaller in size.

Besides, virtually any ship in SF regardless of it's size could undergo deep space assignments the Galaxy was designed for with some minor modifications.

 

[Dayton3]

C.E. Evans said:
Personally, I've always kinda thought Starfleet would start scaling down their ships in the future in lieu of building more of them. Regardless of one's take on the economics of the Federation, it will always be more efficient to build several smaller ships than one gigantic one with the same amount of resources available.

That isn't what the U.S. Navy is currently doing.

All their new ships are significantly larger than the ones they are replacing (except for the carriers and their is an infrastructure issue with them).

And it is in fact more cost effective to build fewer ships with more capabilites than a number of smaller vessels.

And the larger number of smaller ships increase your crew requirements.

And we are told in DS9 that the Federation is suffering a manpower shortage due to the Dominion War.

And don't underestimate the effects of pride and ego on building programs.

Maybe the Federation just WANTS to have a few of the biggest ships in the Galaxy.

Diplomacy is often "one giant pissing contest" as people say.

 

[Vance]

There's some difference, though. Our modern navy is a LOT more missile-based than it used to be, and missiles require a lot more room on a cruiser than simple gun decks.

Carriers are being made bigger because the more advanced jets require more room.

So it's not a case of making bigger ships just BECAUSE... it's because the equipment in today's Navy requires more room.

You can't make the same argument in Trek, were most things are SMALLER than their TOS equivalents.

 

[USS KG5]

Vance said:
There's some difference, though. Our modern navy is a LOT more missile-based than it used to be, and missiles require a lot more room on a cruiser than simple gun decks.

Carriers are being made bigger because the more advanced jets require more room.

So it's not a case of making bigger ships just BECAUSE... it's because the equipment in today's Navy requires more room.

You can't make the same argument in Trek, were most things are SMALLER than their TOS equivalents.

Additionally the largest ships for engaging other ships (terms like "cruiser" mean bugger all these days) are signifcantly smaller than Battleships, a type of vessel that even the US Navy considers a big old target of little practical use these days, and that cannot justify its cost.

 

[Malleus]

Deks said:

The Intrepid class was apparently designed to overcome that limitation.
Same capabilities and weapons as the Galaxy class but smaller in size.

According to tech "manual" specs, the Galaxy-class had burst-fire torpedo technology, while the Intrepid-class had only pulse-fire torpedo technology (and between both is rapid-fire torpedo technology).

 

[Wingsley]

A couple of things to consider: starships of any size have to be able to provide adequate life support and other daily functions for everyone that's crammed into them. So even if you say you have room to hold X number of people, you have to be able to provide breathable air at the right temperature and humidity to comfortably accommodate all those people. You also have to maintain facilities to feed, clothe, bathe, exercise, educate, and entertain all those people in an orderly fashion. And what happens if the ship is damaged or suffers some sort of malfunction, a la APOLLO 13? Are there sufficient backup facilities to keep up with demand, or does the captain have to order so many on-board to "walk the plank"?

While your supposition about larger ships from the Romulans and other aliens is valid, we do not know what the internal capacities and facilities of these larger ships would be. Romulan warbirds are supposed to use a captured quatum singularity as their power source. But do we know how large the engineering facility is to harness that power? We saw the singularly itself (TNG's "Timescape"), but we do not know how much volume the surrounding machinery occupies. And we do not know (for certain) what the size of a warbird's crew is supposed to be, either. It could be that a warbird's interior volume is dominated not by crew facilities but by machinery and weapons.

 

[STIntergalactic]

Wingsley said:
Romulan warbirds are supposed to use a captured quatum singularity as their power source.

Would it not be more correct to say "contained artificial" rather than "captured"?

 

[Timo]

All their new ships are significantly larger than the ones they are replacing (except for the carriers and their is an infrastructure issue with them).

Umm, which of them are? The Arleigh Burke replacing the Ticonderoga is a definite downscale; the frigate category is disappearing altogether, the emphasis going to corvette-sized littoral warfare vessels instead. Modern attack subs are more compact than the Los Angeles.

Only the San Antonio is larger than the preceding LPD units, but OTOH could be argued to represent an entirely new category of amphibious attack ships, rather than a direct continuation of the LPD/LSD line.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[regemet]

That depends on how strictly you take canon. there are many non canon ships larger. The Pathfinder class U S S Resolution is 50% larger. The Hyperion class U S S Challenger is 75% larger. The Excalibur class U S S Voyager A is 100% larger.