Why no Enterprise class?

[Therin of Andor]

If it's the class name, then strictly speaking there should have been an actual first-vessel of the class named "USS Constitution II".

How do we know the USS Constitution wasn't refitted as well? Or perhaps it had been destroyed and not replaced? Or destroyed and eventually being replaced?

Publicity material (and a footnote in the novelization) mentions how Kirk was the first captain to return his ship at the end of his 5YM "relatively intact".

The concept of adding a letter to the registry number wasn't seen until ST IV. Before that, the only numbering precedent was the Galileo II replacing the Galileo shuttlecraft in TOS.

 

[Avon]

why should there be an Enterprise class?

 

[Timo]

Is there any reason to believe the plaque is permanent?

The fact that it says "Simulator Mk IV" in big letters before it says "Enterprise class".

That is, this is sufficient reason for believing that the "Enterprise class" thing isn't a variable that changes every week, unless the "Simulator Mk IV" also changes every week. If the "class" identity changed frequently, it would be indicated in a plaque of its own, while the "Simulator Mk IV" identity would remain constant on a separate plaque.

And it doesn't sound all that likely that the thing would change from "Simulator Mk IV" to "Fabricator Mk II" or "Merry-Go-Round Mk XI" every second week...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[BK613]

Is there any reason to believe the plaque is permanent?

The fact that it says "Simulator Mk IV" in big letters before it says "Enterprise class".

That is, this is sufficient reason for believing that the "Enterprise class" thing isn't a variable that changes every week, unless the "Simulator Mk IV" also changes every week. If the "class" identity changed frequently, it would be indicated in a plaque of its own, while the "Simulator Mk IV" identity would remain constant on a separate plaque.

And it doesn't sound all that likely that the thing would change from "Simulator Mk IV" to "Fabricator Mk II" or "Merry-Go-Round Mk XI" every second week...

Timo Saloniemi

The idea of permanence is bolstered, IMO, by the other sign--Starfleet Training Command-- which is the same size and (apparent) material, and uses the same font.

 

[Brian]

Okay then, it's clearly a model of the Enterprise bridge. That doesn't mean the Enterprise is "Enterprise Class". Just the simulator.

 

[SchwEnt]

Okay I'm gonna really stretch here...

Perhaps the sign "Simulator Mk IV, Enterprise Class"
didn't refer to the class of ship but to the class of cadet trainees.

The "Simulator Mk IV" in this case was specially prepared and configured for the group of cadets who would be going aboard the Enterprise for a training cruise.

The engineers and programmers for the simulator had configured it for this group, and they placed a sign indicating such, as they referred to this group of cadets due to ship out shortly as the "Enterprise class".

The class is the class of cadets, not class of ship.

I told you I was grasping.

 

[Timo]

That wouldn't be likely if the plaques were "conventional" ones, made of bronze or printed out on paper. In the former case, the frequently changing cadet classes would not be mentioned in the plaques at all. In the latter, they would be mentioned on a separate sheet, not on the same one with "Simulator Mk IV".

However, if these plaques are in fact some sort of a more malleable technology, say, a computer screen or then "active paper" that isn't as versatile as a computer screen but still trivially easy to rewrite, then the objections don't apply. (They don't apply if Starfleet is unconcerned about paper consumption, either, and is willing to reprint "Simulator Mk IV" every time the new cadet class name has to be printed.)

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Brian]

The difference is negated in a society with replicators.

 

[Timo]

...Which the society of ST2:TWoK apparently is not. After all, the McGuffin of the movie is a device intended to alleviate galactic famine - an unnecessary proposition if food comes from replicators. Extra farming worlds won't help a bit in that case...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Okay then, it's clearly a model of the Enterprise bridge. That doesn't mean the Enterprise is "Enterprise Class". Just the simulator.

And the term "Enterprise class" could simply mean that the simulator was made to physically resemble that vessel. That's not unusual, IMHO.

 

[BK613]

How about this wacky time-line...

-In the TOS era, starships were called "Starship Class" because they were the 1st-rates of the fleet, not because there was a starship called Starship. Variants were distinguished by letter designations
like "class J."
-Scotty was looking at information on the up-coming "Constitution class" design in his technical journal (A technical journal, being a professional periodical, could contain articles about any number of
vessel classes.)

-Kirk's position as Chief of Starfleet Operations has three effects:
-The Enterprise is refitted with some of the technologies planned for "Constitution Class" but not enough to classify her with that class. She becomes "Enterprise Class" and is, like CVN-65, a class unto herself.
-Starships begin using the lead ship as the class designator, moving away from the letter method. Kirk is traditional that way.
- The "Constitution Class" is delayed.
-The "Constitution Class" is a combination of new builds and full refits of the remaining TOS era ships but is never built in the numbers first intended. The V'jer incident exposes a weakness and
Starfleet wants numbers and speed. It builds the cheaper Mirandas and the transwarp Excelsior instead.
-1701 is destroyed.

-For purely bureaucratic bookkeeping reasons, the term "Constitution Class" is retroactively applied to ships of the TOS era that were refitted into Constitutions. The Enterprise was included in that reclassification.
-People in the 24th Century use the bookkeeping term, leaving the minor detail of "Enterprise class" for obsessive historians.

A bit silly, but it has a real world messiness that I like.

 

[CoveTom]

^ The only problem with that, if you're going to look at the whole of Trek continuity, is that TNG clearly and directly establishes that the original TOS-era Enterprise is a Constitution class ship. Off the top of my head, I can think of "The Naked Now," where Picard is reading about the Psi 2000 virus and identifies Kirk's ship as Constitution class, and "Relics," where Picard and Scotty are on the holodeck recreation of the bridge. Picard identifies it as Constitution class and Scotty agrees.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Another thought: Perhaps the reason that the term "Enterprise class" was never used in Trek (apart from the real life aircraft carrier CVN-65, of course) was to suggest that even though the various Enterprises have all been exceptional vessels, they are not so special that they must have classes named after them - they were just regular ships of the line, part of a larger whole, in classes that were named after other ships.

 

[Gojira]

Another thought: Perhaps the reason that the term "Enterprise class" was never used in Trek (apart from the real life aircraft carrier CVN-65, of course) was to suggest that even though the various Enterprises have all been exceptional vessels, they are not so special that they must have classes named after them - they were just regular ships of the line, part of a larger whole, in classes that were named after other ships.

I agree with everything you have said although I personally wouldn't mind if they did have an Enterprise Class sometime in the future of Trek.

 

[BK613]

^ The only problem with that, if you're going to look at the whole of Trek continuity, is that TNG clearly and directly establishes that the original TOS-era Enterprise is a Constitution class ship. Off the top of my head, I can think of "The Naked Now," where Picard is reading about the Psi 2000 virus and identifies Kirk's ship as Constitution class, and "Relics," where Picard and Scotty are on the holodeck recreation of the bridge. Picard identifies it as Constitution class and Scotty agrees.

Not really. All that needs to happen is that the reclassification I mention below occurs early enough for Scotty to be aware of it. (note: I meant the Enterprise-nil here.)

For purely bureaucratic bookkeeping reasons, the term "Constitution Class" is retroactively applied to ships of the TOS era that were refitted into Constitutions. The Enterprise was included in that reclassification.

From Picard's point of view, it is a matter of historical perspective, with perhaps a century of references to those ships as "Constitution Class." The minor aberration called "Enterprise Class" would be a footnote at best.

-People in the 24th Century use the bookkeeping term, leaving the minor detail of "Enterprise class" for obsessive historians.

As I said, it's messy.

But real life is like that. Why should the Trek universe be any different?

 

[C.E. Evans]

Maybe the "ringship" Enterprise was an Enterprise-class vessel. If it's a historical vessel (regardless if it was of Starfleet registry or not), Starfleet may have decided against having a second Enterprise-class...

 

[Brian]

As I said, it's messy.

But real life is like that. Why should the Trek universe be any different?

Because there are legions of Trekkies/ers who would spend the next century picking it to pieces. I mean, look at this discussion. We're 29 years out from TWOK and still talking about a sign on a door.

 

[BK613]

As I said, it's messy.

But real life is like that. Why should the Trek universe be any different?

Because there are legions of Trekkies/ers who would spend the next century picking it to pieces. I mean, look at this discussion. We're 29 years out from TWOK and still talking about a sign on a door.

eff 'em.
The continuity represents 200 hundred years of "history" (if you include ENT.) The idea that it would be some smooth, rational progression is a more fictional concept than warp drive, IMO.