Why Janeway is the Worst Star Trek Captain!

[Zameaze]

Janeway killed Tuvix.

1. Tuvix become a member of the crew, and was given the rank of Lieutenant, nonetheless, Janeway decided it was best to murder him.

2. Janeway doesn't have the right to murder Tuvix, because Tuvix chose to live, and as a rational and sentient being, had the right to life.

3. The Doctor refuses to perform the procedure as it is a violation of the Hippocratic oath and his ethical programming given him by Starfleet. The Doctor knows that this is murder.

1. So were Tuvok and Neelix, in fact the case can be made that Tuvok outranked Tuvix.

I'm not understanding your point. I was establishing that he was indeed a crew member and was even given a rank, therefore he should have the rights of any other crew member. Maybe you can elaborate on your point.

2. Appearently she does have the right to make that decision, because we do not see Starfleet chastising her for it either, what we know for sure is that she is promoted when they get back.

What Starfleet does or does not do, of course, doesn't change the morality of the issue.

I believe both Neelix and Tuvok chose to live too....

They couldn't choose to live, they weren't there. Janeway assumes Tuvok's and Neelix's desire without evidence. We could well imagine Tuvok arguing that Tuvix combined the abilities of both crew members, but would only require the resources and living space of one crew member, so, logically, he was far more efficient and useful than Tuvok and Neelix as separate beings. We could see Neelix arguing that he liked to be a dynamic duo with Tuvok, all squished into one. They well might have said nothing of the kind. The point is Janeway doesn't know and acts on emotion, not evidence, to murder Tuvix.

3. The Doctor has a lot of knowledge all programed into him, and most likely a lot of conflicting knowledge. His decision was pretty immature IMHO....

Ethical programming given him by Starfleet.

Brit, a question, now answer honestly, "Would you have given Tuvix due process?" Remember, he had committed no crime, and had expressed a clear desire to live.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Ethical programming he's allowed to jigger himself to follow his whims, as well as any other bugger, who can even remove it without any authorization like Ransom did.

 

[Zameaze]

Ethical programming he's allowed to jigger himself to follow his whims, as well as any other bugger, who can even remove it without any authorization like Ransom did.

You can't have it both ways, Guy--you can take the Doctor with ethical programming, or the bipolar lady yelling, "Off with their heads, Off with their heads!!"

Well, there is another alternative, but...no, it's probably too extreme....maybe due process?

 

[Guy Gardener]

My clouded point was that Janeway did not have the foresight to fix and abridge the doctor's ethical programming before she did a very bad thing.

 

[Zameaze]

My clouded point was that Janeway did not have the foresight to fix and abridge the doctor's ethical programming before she did a very bad thing.

Yes, a couple of episodes of MacGyver on the holodeck, and she would have known how to make the Doctor into her own Dalek.

 

[Guy Gardener]

She knew how. She should know how. Former science officer of the USS Al-Batani.

It didn't cross Kathryn's mind that she would have to.

Londo Mollari said it best: "Truly mad people do not know that they are mad, they tend to talk about mad things as casually as you or I would talk about the weather."

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

I prefer Shakespeare: "If this be madness, there is method in it."

Now that's Janeway.

 

[Guy Gardener]

"Whom the gods would destroy, they first make mad"

Euripides.

When did they declare victory on making Kathy mad, and start trying to kill her?

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

There are no gods. So, never.

But if you want old greeks Aristotle says, "There is not genius without a mixture of madness."

 

[Guy Gardener]

Q is crying into his beer right now you heartless monster!

 

[Zameaze]

She knew how. She should know how. Former science officer of the USS Al-Batani.

Nah, she didn't know how to do it. That was an affirmative action promotion. They didn't have their quota of female science officers, and Janeway had taken algebra in high school.

 

[Guy Gardener]

There is no sexism or affirmative action in the future.

Nepotism for an Admiral's child however?

 

[R. Star]

Janeway definitely was friendly to every Admiral in sight from the few flashback episodes we saw. And even before Paris rocked her world in Threshold she was soft on him because of daddy.

 

[Zameaze]

There is no sexism...in the future.

Tell that to poor Harry Kim who almost got eaten by Terisian women who only wanted him for his sperm!

 

[Guy Gardener]

There is no human on human sexism.

Federationwide it's a bit iffy.

Galaxywide there are sexist pigs everywhere.

 

[Zameaze]

There is no human on human sexism.

OK, Captain Janeway is trapped with a male and a female crew member on a planet, her ship has been destroyed--it's back to basics. Who would she pick between the two if she decided it necessary that her eggs be fertilized. If she picks one or the other solely based on sex, she is being sexist.

Sexism is still there in the future.

 

[Gov Kodos]

Biology isn't sexism. She isn't the worst captain. Troll threads are lame.

 

[Zameaze]

Biology isn't sexism.

Are you saying that with a straight face? Biology has everything to do with it. Sexism is discrimination based on a person's sex.

Men and women's brain structures are different. They have different hormonal levels. Men are better at some things (e.g., spatial tasks), women are better than men at other things (e.g., color perception). To ignore this is impossible in some situations, like the extreme example I gave, and ignorant in others.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Sexism is unfair discrimination based on a person's sex. It is not unfair that a man cannot give birth, this is not sexism. It's sex itself, as in biology.

 

[Captain Kathryn]

Biology isn't sexism. She isn't the worst captain. Troll threads are lame.

Agreed...