Why isn't there a Chief of Security on the Enterprise in the Kelvin Timeline?

[Pauln6]

Well in my view, the most logical thing to do when your enemies beam onto your ship is to beam them straight into your brig. So the security office should be full of security sensors, view screens, and a transporter. That said, I can't really think of a single occasion, except maybe Day of the Dove, where they even plan to use the transporter in this way. Odd.

TMP started the trend of the tactical officer being security chief but at least there they did also have an internal security station that could detect intruders or temperature variations.

 

[mdtauk]

...
TMP started the trend of the tactical officer being security chief but at least there they did also have an internal security station that could detect intruders or temperature variations.

An "Intruder Alert" was triggered automatically then if I am remembering right. Rather than initiated by the Security Chief.

 

[Timo]

Well in my view, the most logical thing to do when your enemies beam onto your ship is to beam them straight into your brig.

For some reason, beaming between two locations inside the same ship (even if one of them was a proper transporter pad) was a big no-no in TOS ("Day of the Dove"). Using the transporter for intruder control would seem ruled out in that era at least, then.

Yet intruders that got to the bridge in TNG were capable of thwarting the transporter: the Borg and the Ansata had superior transporters of their own, and the others were noncorporeal demigods or whatever.

Intruders in corridors in turn were generally controlled by forcefields, except when they were too clever for that - and they ran rings around sensors and transporters in such cases, too (Dana Rogar or Wesley Crusher on the run).

In statistical terms, disgraces such as the pirate raid in "Gambit" were extremely rare. And even "Gambit" probably involved Riker telling key parties (not Chiefs of Security but the computer programs responsible for the alerts and countermeasures) "we're gonna raid you on my authority" first.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[SPCTRE]

You mean Moto?

http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Moto

in my headcannon, Moto's name is just Dave.

you know, Dave down in the brig. it's always a Dave. fucking Dave.

 

[Skipper]

I think from TNG onward, the Tactical officer doubled up as head of security.

I never understood the rationale behind this. I don't see so much overlapping between the two positions. (yes, in both roles you have sometimes to fire at things, but that's is all).
On the other hand officers in TNG were jack all trades: remember when in Darmok Troi and data were the only linguists in the Enterprise...?

 

[Timo]

I never understood the rationale behind this. I don't see so much overlapping between the two positions.

And if there is some, it generally requires two pairs of hands - Security fighting invaders when Tactical fights their ship!

TOS never had this arrangement. DS9 never had this arrangement. In TNG, the arrangement only came to be after the original Chief of Security died in action; before that, and for a while after that, the bridge positions were in considerable flux, and there was no such thing as (Chief) Tactical Officer in evidence. In VOY, the arrangement likewise came to be after the ship took heavy casualties. And in both TNG and VOY, it only affected the hero ship; other Starfleet ships were never indicated to have this sort of an arrangement, and some were explicitly stated to have a separate Tactical Officer.

On the other hand officers in TNG were jack all trades: remember when in Darmok Troi and data were the only linguists in the Enterprise...?

Well, they have the universal translator and the computer with its databases. I'm not sure the profession of linguist would even exist in that time and age!

Seriously, it's all databases in TOS already. The only reference to a potential Linguistics department is from "Friday's Child", and it could refer to a database just as well.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Skipper]

Well, they have the universal translator and the computer with its databases. I'm not sure the profession of linguist would even exist in that time and age!
Timo Saloniemi

Linguistics is a quite fascinating discipline. Even if a computer does all the work, I'm sure that people will still have interest in new, exotic alien languages And a linguist can gather little nuances that are lost to a computer. Do you remember Jack in Statistical Probabilities..?

 

[Timo]

The point seemed to be that nobody wanted Jack's services...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Skipper]

The point seemed to be that nobody wanted Jack's services...

Timo Saloniemi

Because he's was a psychopath, not because none knew what to do with a linguist

 

[MakeshiftPython]

Here's a basic layout of all the shows regarding tactical and security on the bridge.

TOS: Both helmsman and navigator double as tactical officers when required. Security is posted elsewhere. (Though in "The Cage", a security officer is shown regularly guarding the bridge turbolift. This does not carry over onto the regular series except when requested like in "Dagger of the Mind")
TMP: With the refit, tactical now gets its own station on the bridge, with the security chief doubling as the tactical officer.
TNG: Same as above, but now the additional responsibility of ship communications, as there doesn't seem to be a need for communications officers in the 24th century.
VOY: Same as above.
ENT: Reed is simply the "armory officer" in charge of tactical. There seems to be no security division in the sense we're familiar with in the 23rd and 24th century, hence the introduction of the MACOs when muscle was needed.

 

[Kor]

I just assumed that Security Chief is an internal ship-board duty that we just don't need to see much, like in TOS. And it's probably Cupcake.

There is no need for the security chief to also be the tactical officer on the bridge.

Kor

 

[Enterprise1701]

Frankly, I don't see why "Communications Officer" should have so much importance in the first place (though I'm not saying that Uhura is a bad character or anything). It is not that common when universal translators fail or have trouble, the communications officer was the primary person who solves the issue.

 

[Jedman67]

Yet intruders that got to the bridge in TNG were capable of thwarting the transporter: the Borg and the Ansata had superior transporters of their own, and the others were noncorporeal demigods or whatever.

Intruders in corridors in turn were generally controlled by forcefields, except when they were too clever for that - and they ran rings around sensors and transporters in such cases, too (Dana Rogar or Wesley Crusher on the run).

In statistical terms, disgraces such as the pirate raid in "Gambit" were extremely rare. And even "Gambit" probably involved Riker telling key parties (not Chiefs of Security but the computer programs responsible for the alerts and countermeasures) "we're gonna raid you on my authority" first.

Timo Saloniemi

IIRC in Gambit, Data allowed Riker to access the ships computer even though his codes should have been locked out when he disappeared.

Even in TNG, Federation beaming for internal site-to-site transports was uncommon, usually requiring a transporter pad on at least one end.

And we see from the Barclay episode that on occasion you need to link two transporters together in order to safely beam from place to place.

 

[The Wormhole]

Though in "The Cage", a security officer is shown regularly guarding the bridge turbolift. This does not carry over onto the regular series except when requested like in "Dagger of the Mind"

The Doomsday Machine also had two security officers present on the bridge, standing guard at the turbolift doors. Spock summons them to help enforce Kirk's order to relive Decker of command.

Reed is simply the "armory officer" in charge of tactical. There seems to be no security division in the sense we're familiar with in the 23rd and 24th century, hence the introduction of the MACOs when muscle was needed.

There are security officers on the ship, they are seen quite often throughout the first two seasons. Indeed, even when the MACOs are brought in, the security staff are still mentioned, like in the season 3 premiere when Major Hayes insists that Archer's rescue be handled by the MACOs instead of Reed's security force, claiming the security officers' familiarity with the NX-01 will be more of an asset if the ship gets boarded, which Reed considers bullshit claiming Hayes just thinks the MACOs are better than Starfleet security officers. Ironically, Starfleet's security pretty much disappears throughout the third season, with the only one seen serving aboard the NX-01 other than Reed being the guy guarding Archer's quarters in Twilight.

 

[Pauln6]

IIRC in Gambit, Data allowed Riker to access the ships computer even though his codes should have been locked out when he disappeared.

Even in TNG, Federation beaming for internal site-to-site transports was uncommon, usually requiring a transporter pad on at least one end.

And we see from the Barclay episode that on occasion you need to link two transporters together in order to safely beam from place to place.

Yes it seems rare because... drama... but if you can beam inside buildings blind on a planet that is rotating beneath you, or while skydiving at terminal velocity, surely beaming two decks down on your own ship, where you can access security cams to see where you are going should be child's play?

Frankly, I don't see why "Communications Officer" should have so much importance in the first place (though I'm not saying that Uhura is a bad character or anything). It is not that common when universal translators fail or have trouble, the communications officer was the primary person who solves the issue.

Comms officers are vital on naval vessels so this was a hang over from that. From what I can see of the TMP layout, there is a communications bay where junior officers filter the vast number of signals that the ship receives. Uhura's job is essentially to pass information to the Captain and pass on his orders to other parts of the ship. She would also play a role in co-ordinating damage control teams and security teams although the latter job is taken over by the security station from TMP onwards. She's a busy woman in the background.

 

[Jedman67]

Yes it seems rare because... drama... but if you can beam inside buildings blind on a planet that is rotating beneath you, or while skydiving at terminal velocity, surely beaming two decks down on your own ship, where you can access security cams to see where you are going should be child's play?

Yeah true dat. Voyager played fast and loose with it.

 

[section31agent]

When has there been a bridge intrusion that could have been resolved by Security "coming to the rescue"? The typical scenario has aliens taking over the whole ship, or kidnapping an individual. In the former case, Security has its hands full and wouldn't accomplish anything anyway by sending more troops to the bridge than they usually do. In the latter, it's better to be punching commands into consoles belowdecks to get the shields back up, or reconfigured to better resist beam-out, than to wave a phaser at the kidnapper and the victim.

No doubt there is an officer somewhere going "Holy shit! Intruders on the bridge again!" every time something like this happens. Doesn't mean this would make him any more capable of releasing stun gas or dispatching manpower to the scene - it's tactical concerns that stop him from doing so in general. I.e. if the enemy can get to the bridge, that's the definition of a powerful enemy, and failing to make him Security-proof would undermine the plot.

Timo Saloniemi

A handful of Ferengi renegades seized a Galaxy class ship with over 1000 crew with virtually no resistance. Were they fighting corridor to corridor, deck by deck with security? No. Riker ordered "Intruder alert, security teams to..." Then he gets interrupted by two Ferengi. Did any from security call Riker back and say "Hello? Where do you want us to go? Are you okay? Hmm maybe we should send a team to the bridge to make sure they're ok. It is the command center of the entire ship after all"

And this is the Federation flagship....

 

[Timo]

TOS: Both helmsman and navigator double as tactical officers when required. Security is posted elsewhere. (Though in "The Cage", a security officer is shown regularly guarding the bridge turbolift. This does not carry over onto the regular series except when requested like in "Dagger of the Mind")

The blueshirts in "The Cage" might also have been medical personnel standing by in case any of the officers recently wounded in action collapses at his or her station...

TMP: With the refit, tactical now gets its own station on the bridge, with the security chief doubling as the tactical officer.

The launch is so impromptu we never quite learn what the various people are supposed to do, and who is filling in for whom. Chekov might have been either Security or Tactical, or neither - him not being Security would make it easier to accept he knows little about Security in ST6.

ENT: Reed is simply the "armory officer" in charge of tactical. There seems to be no security division in the sense we're familiar with in the 23rd and 24th century, hence the introduction of the MACOs when muscle was needed.

As Wormhole said, Reed's troopers were very much there and did stuff. Reed frequently led said troops into Security action, and further led the MACO after Hayes died. In practice, Starfleet Security was there, with Reed as the Security Chief. Yet would it have been formally known as something else?

Apparently not. During both the early MACO-free seasons, S3, and the again MACO-light S4, Reed's forces are known as the "security team". Hayes consistently calls them that, too.

OTOH, in "Affliction", Commander Collins hails from Starfleet Security, filling in the role of a police(wo)man, an investigator into a crime. That, too, seems to be in keeping with the role of Security in the TNG era.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Jedman67]

A handful of Ferengi renegades seized a Galaxy class ship with over 1000 crew with virtually no resistance. Were they fighting corridor to corridor, deck by deck with security? No. Riker ordered "Intruder alert, security teams to..." Then he gets interrupted by two Ferengi. Did any from security call Riker back and say "Hello? Where do you want us to go? Are you okay? Hmm maybe we should send a team to the bridge to make sure they're ok. It is the command center of the entire ship after all"

And this is the Federation flagship....

At least he had the foresight to lock the ships computer...although he could have just ordered the computer to beam the ferengi to outer space
Did Worf get a sudden case of IBS? Even heavily armed ferengi pirates are no match for a trained klingon, even if he only has a hand phaser.

 

[Kevman7987]

At least he had the foresight to lock the ships computer...although he could have just ordered the computer to beam the ferengi to outer space
Did Worf get a sudden case of IBS? Even heavily armed ferengi pirates are no match for a trained klingon, even if he only has a hand phaser.

I think people being beamed into space might be a little too dark for our Trek heroes. However; Romulan gives you guff? His head is beamed off of his body. Klingon ruins your day? Beam his heart out of his chest and into your hand. Irritating Ferengi? Set phaser to slowly melt his flesh.

Yes, too dark.